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Unread 09-24-2013, 04:19 PM   #46
2ndhandWJman
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2003 WJ 
 
Join Date: May 2013
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So what is the new displacement using the 232 crank? I've been slowly reading up on these different stoker combos but there seems to be a bunch of different ways of doing them.

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Unread 09-25-2013, 07:37 AM   #47
Knoxes
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Mine will be about 4.2L. If I had it to do over again, I would have gone with the 258 crank and built a 4.6L. It's a more expensive recipe, but you get a lot more displacement. One thing that I discovered along the way that would drive my decision relates to the post 1998 block and the cam retention method. Blocks after 1998 (I think) have a cam retention plate that bolts to the block. Previous blocks have a pin and spring combo that seats against the timing cover. You have to set the cam end play with that pin and spring. That's not difficult or unusual, but I really like the retention plate method because of it's simplicity and reliability. Here's where it gets complicated. There isn't an aftermarket cam made to work with the retention plate. So you either build a custom ($$$) or use the stock cam. If you use a stock cam, you really can't upgrade the timing set to the nice Cloyes double roller. You can use an aftermarket cam with the roller set, but then you have to modify the timing cover to work with the pin/spring - that wasn't something that I was comfortable doing. Just fyi.
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Unread 09-25-2013, 08:27 AM   #48
yzjwk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knoxes View Post
Mine will be about 4.2L. If I had it to do over again, I would have gone with the 258 crank and built a 4.6L. It's a more expensive recipe, but you get a lot more displacement. One thing that I discovered along the way that would drive my decision relates to the post 1998 block and the cam retention method. Blocks after 1998 (I think) have a cam retention plate that bolts to the block. Previous blocks have a pin and spring combo that seats against the timing cover. You have to set the cam end play with that pin and spring. That's not difficult or unusual, but I really like the retention plate method because of it's simplicity and reliability. Here's where it gets complicated. There isn't an aftermarket cam made to work with the retention plate. So you either build a custom ($$$) or use the stock cam. If you use a stock cam, you really can't upgrade the timing set to the nice Cloyes double roller. You can use an aftermarket cam with the roller set, but then you have to modify the timing cover to work with the pin/spring - that wasn't something that I was comfortable doing. Just fyi.
Did you look into regrinding your stock cam ? I had mine done in the Yj with the 258 .It allowed me to retain my stock pushrods and springs etc and combined with a .020 head deck , it really made a difference in the power.Unfortunately, being stupid at the time,I never got all the specifics on the cam .
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Unread 10-02-2013, 07:56 AM   #49
Knoxes
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I didn't - mostly because I couldn't get my head wrapped around how it was done - you'd have to add material to the lobes, correct? There is a retainer plate cam blank available and I looked into having a custom cam built. But the shop that I was working with couldn't do a grind small enough to avoid having to upgrade the springs - which means that I'd have to upgrade the timing set, etc - which basically defeats the purpose of using a stock retainer plate setup. There are surely some shops around that can do a 240-260 lift, but that's definitely on the small side and well below what they're used to building.
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Unread 10-02-2013, 01:23 PM   #50
yzjwk
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my understanding is you only need to add material if you want a fatter cam with more lift . with a re grind they can change the valve duration,overlap and timing to add a bit more power ,but i think the big difference is it puts the power in a more useable range , especially for an automatic transmission . (it helps too if your not concerned about fuel economy and emissions ) . I never relly studied it too much , but a trusted mechanic , who was running the same cam told me about it .
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Unread 10-02-2013, 02:35 PM   #51
Knoxes
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Ah, I found it. They reduce the base circle of the cam lobe, thereby increasing the lift and duration (this is assuming that you've made appropriate adjustments to the rocker ratio). Obviously, the lobe point can be shaped as well to change the profile.
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Unread 10-07-2013, 02:47 PM   #52
WJ2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knoxes View Post
Ah, I found it. They reduce the base circle of the cam lobe, thereby increasing the lift and duration (this is assuming that you've made appropriate adjustments to the rocker ratio). Obviously, the lobe point can be shaped as well to change the profile.
Yep'' That's the beauty of doing an regrind, they just reshape it a little'
mostly on the back side / which puts forth more frontal lobe an then, grind / shave the top of the lobe a little which makes the lobe a little fatter .
Thus , giving the cam lobe a little more duration an this keeps the valve open a little longer I thank I understand how they do it, But they need a brand new cam to do it .

And the big question is'' has anyone had this done, I mite be the first one to do this, but first I have to call 505 performance an see if this will work , with the stock JEEP ECM . ''there may be some issues'' . Plus they may all ready have it in stock '''
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Unread 10-08-2013, 01:05 AM   #53
bentbolt
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Erg rinds are weak. I have had lobes bust off a mechical roller. I will never use one again. A new cam isn't that much to spare the price.
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Unread 10-08-2013, 01:31 AM   #54
WJ2000
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Originally Posted by bentbolt View Post
Erg rinds are weak. I have had lobes bust off a mechical roller. I will never use one again. A new cam isn't that much to spare the price.
Oh'' well maybe they didn't refire an quench the cam, after the regrind ?
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Unread 10-08-2013, 07:38 AM   #55
Knoxes
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Based on what I've found, I wouldn't bother with a regrind. There are plenty of mild cams available for $150 or so. My rationale was that I didn't want to deal with the pin/spring modification for an aftermarket cam.
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Unread 10-08-2013, 08:57 AM   #56
Ravie
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I used and old-style cam (pin and spring style) when I rebuilt my retention plate style 4.0 on my 99. I basically said screw it and went naked. I did some asking around and researching and measuring and ended up deciding that there wasn't enough end play to be worth it, and that the shape of the lobes would keep the cam in place because they're slightly lopsided to rotate the lifters in their bores. I ended up epoxying a thick nylon washer to the inside of my timing cover as well as getting a grade 8 bolt and smoothing and polishing the head to act as a "bump stop" for the cam. Was it the right fix? Well, probably not. However 10,000+ miles later it hasn't caused any issues, and I really don't expect it to.

Here's the post of what I did in my engine rebuild thread... http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f310/...l#post12782132
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Unread 10-08-2013, 12:16 PM   #57
Knoxes
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Halfway through your build thread. Odd that I haven't seen it before. Great info, though. Nice work, Ravie.
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Unread 10-08-2013, 03:37 PM   #58
Ravie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knoxes View Post
Halfway through your build thread. Odd that I haven't seen it before. Great info, though. Nice work, Ravie.
Thanks. I didn't take enough pictures in that thread. I was working alone so taking pictures took a back seat in priority. I meant to turn that into a well-done build thread but i just got too involved in the work. I think in and of itself it's a decent build thread even if that's not what i was originally going for.
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Unread 10-21-2013, 08:31 AM   #59
Knoxes
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Back to work after a day breaking some speed limits in the XKE on the way to a small gathering of classic and modern Euro/American muscle.





This is how we decided to lift it.



That's a piece of angle iron bolted into the head via the valve cover bolts. It seems overly complicated, but it turns out to have some significant advantages.



Such as multiple attachment points...



Which we had to adjust (note the jack stands)...



Finally got it back into the engine compartment, although we're having some trouble getting it hooked back up to the transmission. I think we're going to have to pull it back out and move those rear chains forward a bit to clear the cowling.



Forgot to add - talked to some guy that stuffed a 6.something into an XJ.
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Unread 11-01-2013, 10:47 AM   #60
Knoxes
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I'm wondering about an outlet in the firewall on the passenger side. It's just above the starter and looks like a fitted connection for a hose. Not sure what that's for. I think all of the heater core lines are still connected at the firewall. Can't imagine what else it could be.
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