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Unread 03-15-2014, 03:33 PM   #16
Fawkes
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Lots of assumptions and not a whole lot of real-world measurements going on here.

First, I posted the stock wheel widths and offsets (sorry Scrmngchicken, your number is off by quite a bit)

Second, the most common "Soft 8" style wheels will be steel (Crager/AR/Black Rock/ProComp/etc.), and have from 0-0.5" of offset. For backspacing numbers, divide the wheel width by two, and add/subtract the offset. So for a standard 8" wide Soft8, BS will be 4", +/- 1/2".

Yes your wheel/tire combo will be 2" wider than stock/side. But what does that mean?

From the factory, our WJ wheel/tire combos are tucked in/under the fender by quite a bit. I don't have a factory WJ to measure, but it's likely ~1-1.5" inside the wheel wells. Yes, a 4.5" BS, 8" wide steel rim will push the edge of the wheel outboard by 2"... but even with an aggressive tire, that means that the edge of your tread will actually only be 0.5"-1" beyond the edge of your fender:



The photo above is a stock WJ on the right, and my personal WJ running 17x8" Soft8's (4.5" BS), with 245/75-17 Duratracs (on 3.5" of lift). If needed, I can run out to the driveway for an exact measurement, but I would guesstimate that my tires hang out beyond the fenders no more than 0.75". It's unfortunate but the photo above is a bit of a forced perspective. Most of what sticks out is sidewall rather than tread. Here's a shot of the same vehicle from directly behind:



Indeed, there is increased stress on wheel bearings, however: The bigger/wider/thicker/heavier tires that get stuck on the wheels will likely contribute more to rotating mass than the wheels, and the wheels will contribute neglible additional stress themselves (because of the negative offset compared to stock). The rotating mass of the heavier wheels is also distributed more evenly inboard/outboard than the stock Al rims.

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Unread 03-15-2014, 03:38 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fawkes
Lots of assumptions and not a whole lot of real-world measurements going on here. First, I posted the stock wheel widths and offsets (sorry Scrmngchicken, your number is off by quite a bit) Second, the most common "Soft 8" style wheels will be steel (Crager/AR/Black Rock/ProComp/etc.), and have from 0-0.5" of offset. For backspacing numbers, divide the wheel width by two, and add/subtract the offset. So for a standard 8" wide Soft8, BS will be 4", +/- 1/2". Yes your wheel/tire combo will be 2" wider than stock/side. But what does that mean? From the factory, our WJ wheel/tire combos are tucked in/under the fender by quite a bit. I don't have a factory WJ to measure, but it's likely ~1-1.5" inside the wheel wells. Yes, a 4.5" BS, 8" wide steel rim will push the edge of the wheel outboard by 2"... but even with an aggressive tire, that means that the edge of your tread will actually only be 0.5"-1" beyond the edge of your fender: The photo above is a stock WJ on the right, and my personal WJ running 17x8" Soft8's (4.5" BS), with 245/75-17 Duratracs (on 3.5" of lift). If needed, I can run out to the driveway for an exact measurement, but I would guesstimate that my tires hang out beyond the fenders no more than 0.75". It's unfortunate but the photo above is a bit of a forced perspective. Most of what sticks out is sidewall rather than tread. Here's a shot of the same vehicle from directly behind: Indeed, there is increased stress on wheel bearings, however: The bigger/wider/thicker/heavier tires that get stuck on the wheels will likely contribute more to rotating mass than the wheels, and the wheels will contribute neglible additional stress themselves (because of the negative offset compared to stock). The rotating mass of the heavier wheels is also distributed more evenly inboard/outboard than the stock Al rims.
I was thinking the same thing in terms if the stok wheels being an 1" or 2" inside the fender. So 2" won't be that bad. I'm just running stock tires becuase they have a lot of tread and I don't want to waste them
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Unread 03-15-2014, 03:41 PM   #18
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I just ran out and measured with a straight edge and a level: The only thing overhanging my fender is sidewall.

Edit: 245mm width tread, on an 8" wide tire, with 4.5" of BS (IOW: +12mm offset). Measured off the rear, since the front fender tapers towards the front.
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Unread 03-15-2014, 03:43 PM   #19
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Can't tell from the front, but you can see the back is tucked in there pretty good.
image-2517307563.jpg

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Unread 03-15-2014, 03:47 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wsar10 View Post
Your statement was "SOFT 8'S stick out further than stock" and thats not the case ANY WHEEL can or cannot stick out further than stock, it goes by the numbers not the BRAND or TYPE of wheel.........
Your statement would lead somebody to believe that ANY soft 8 wheel is going to have less BS and thats not the case if you have a soft 8 that has the same BS number as the OE wheels than they will "stick out" the same amount.
Why are you so upset and angry? Why are you taking my reply out of context of the original post? This is really weird, have I said something to upset you in the past or something?
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Unread 03-15-2014, 04:15 PM   #21
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Attached is a drawing I did back when I was getting my Soft 8's. It shows the stock rim vs the 16x8 Soft 8. As Fawkes points out the stock rims really sit inbound of the fender, the difference is particularly accentuated when also fitting a wider tire as shown in the diagram.
wj-crager-vs-stock-dwg.jpg  
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Unread 03-15-2014, 06:49 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fawkes View Post

First, I posted the stock wheel widths and offsets (sorry Scrmngchicken, your number is off by quite a bit)
.
Hm. If it weren't for me actually owning one of these Jeeps, added to the fact that I sell this stuff for a living, I'd say you are right. Well, no. Not right at all.

Maybe math isn't your string point. I don't know. But still, the stock OEM 16" wheels for a WJ are in fact a 51mm offset. Don't believe me? It should be stamped on the back of the rims. Oh, and the Soft 8? Yeah. -12.

Oh, and the Soft 8 is made by one company. Carlisle. But they are branded under Cragar, Unique, Pacer, Black Rock, Pro Comp and for a while American Racing.

Well, carry on about telling me how wrong I am... I'll be here reading other threads knowing I'm right.
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Unread 03-16-2014, 03:02 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrmngchicken View Post
Hm. If it weren't for me actually owning one of these Jeeps, added to the fact that I sell this stuff for a living, I'd say you are right. Well, no. Not right at all.

Maybe math isn't your string point. I don't know. But still, the stock OEM 16" wheels for a WJ are in fact a 51mm offset. Don't believe me? It should be stamped on the back of the rims. Oh, and the Soft 8? Yeah. -12.

Oh, and the Soft 8 is made by one company. Carlisle. But they are branded under Cragar, Unique, Pacer, Black Rock, Pro Comp and for a while American Racing.

Well, carry on about telling me how wrong I am... I'll be here reading other threads knowing I'm right.
http://www.wjjeeps.com/wheels.htm

According to wjjeeps.com, offset is 50.8mm. So 51mm is way off
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Unread 03-16-2014, 05:11 AM   #24
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Here are mine without spacers and they are sticking out around 1.25", am using BlackRock Wheel 909B rims which look similar to the soft 8's but aluminum, they are 0 mm offset and 4.5" rear spacing:

Rear


Front

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Unread 03-16-2014, 11:23 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MWF View Post
Why are you so upset and angry? Why are you taking my reply out of context of the original post? This is really weird, have I said something to upset you in the past or something?
I simply corrected an incorrect and misleading blanket statment, and you cant seem to let that go.......... But I'm angry ???

Holly **** buddy get a grip you made a stament I corrected it thats all, grow up move on !!!! who cares.
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Unread 03-16-2014, 02:00 PM   #26
Fawkes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrmngchicken View Post
Hm. If it weren't for me actually owning one of these Jeeps, added to the fact that I sell this stuff for a living, I'd say you are right. Well, no. Not right at all.

Maybe math isn't your string point. I don't know.



My sincere apologies. I was incorrect in my statement that your measurements were way off, as it seems I halved my inches to metric conversions when converting BS to offset. I suppose that's what I get for doing the math in my head while posting... and then referring back to that crappy math.



Quote:
Oh, and the Soft 8 is made by one company. Carlisle. But they are branded under Cragar, Unique, Pacer, Black Rock, Pro Comp and for a while American Racing.
I am sure you are aware that those different brands offer their customers slightly different backspacing in the same "Soft 8" steel wheel... which was the point of my statement.

Quote:
Well, carry on about telling me how wrong I am... I'll be here reading other threads knowing I'm right.
You were correct, and I was wrong on the metric offset measurement.

As far as the rest of this thread, I'll stand by my (non-metric ) statements:

While an 8" wide Soft8 style steel wheel will stick out significantly farther than the stock wheel, assuming a stock ~245mm width tire, the tread should still be right around the edge of the fenderwell without overhanging too much. This would be borne out by actual measurements, on an actual WJ (as crazy as it sounds - I own as well ), with an actual 17x8 Soft8 steel wheel mounted.

MWF's illustration is an excellent reference.

I'll now bow out, as it seems I need to brush up on my math.
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Unread 03-17-2014, 04:27 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by wsar10 View Post
I simply corrected an incorrect and misleading blanket statment, and you cant seem to let that go.......... But I'm angry ???

Holly **** buddy get a grip you made a stament I corrected it thats all, grow up move on !!!! who cares.
I'm genuinely sorry I've antagonised you so much with a few simple words

Perhaps take a chill pill and calm down?
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