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Unread 06-05-2013, 10:53 AM   #16
04Overland47
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Friction modifier does not belong in your transfer case. I've read that a lot of Jeep techs at dealerships add it when customers complain of a noisey transfer case...they basically band-aid a potential underlying problem

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Unread 06-05-2013, 12:45 PM   #17
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This thread is deteriorating rapidly. FM in the transfer case? Seriously? Never, ever, put anything in an NV247 t-case except Mopar OE fluid. They are very sensitive.

First, how many miles on your WJ?

A few things about quadra drive: You have two critical components that fully operate the system (1) the transfer case progressive coupler which engages it detects the rear wheels spinning, and (2) the vari-lok differentials (clutch based limited slip) in both front and rear that detect wheel spin between tires on the same axle. Given your first symptom that the front wheels are not spinning at all, I'd say that something is going on with your transfer case progressive coupler. As recommended by others, put fresh new OEM mopar NV247 transfer case fluid in there and nothing else. You should start seeing the front wheels engaging on your grass test. If not, then the coupler is toast. This could happen with very high mileage WJ's.

Your second symptom is that only the rear passenger wheel spins, says there is something that's going on with the differential. Also, as recommended, it could be as simple as just needing some friction modifier; however, who knows when the prev. owner serviced the diffs last. Get the correct diff fluid for front and rear, add the correct Mopar FM (I use Ford Racing FM and it works too, but use Mopar to be safe). You should see two wheel spin out marks now on the rear. If this doesn't fix it, then your clutch packs are toast. This doesn't happen often on vari-lok diffs because the clutches are not pre-loaded like other limited slips and don't wear out as fast. But it's possible. They are not serviceable and you'd have to replace the vari lok with a new unit.

I know hind sight is 20/20, but you should have tested the 4wd system out before you bought your rig if you need it for winter snow driving. You are going to spend a couple hundred bucks on Mopar fluids for this. Let's hope it pays off.
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Unread 06-05-2013, 05:26 PM   #18
85IrocZ-28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javis4x4 View Post
How do your verilocks work with 35 inch tires, I had read that the biggest tire to run with verilocks is a 31in and 32in @ the biggest ?
They work pretty well. My rear varilock only has about 10k on it, I had it installed new when I did the 4.56's. This is a DD for my wife, and they are great on snowy roads.

They will NEVER be as good as a locker offroad. But that being said, I get up all the obstacles I want to in Moab. I have run several trails that "require a locker" according to the trail books. There are times when I press on the brake (while still applying the throttle) to force more power through the varilock and to the other tire.

Everyone has to evaluate the use and need of their vehicle. For me, the varilock is a great LSD.
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Unread 06-05-2013, 05:42 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 85IrocZ-28

They work pretty well. My rear varilock only has about 10k on it, I had it installed new when I did the 4.56's. This is a DD for my wife, and they are great on snowy roads.

They will NEVER be as good as a locker offroad. But that being said, I get up all the obstacles I want to in Moab. I have run several trails that "require a locker" according to the trail books. There are times when I press on the brake (while still applying the throttle) to force more power through the varilock and to the other tire.

Everyone has to evaluate the use and need of their vehicle. For me, the varilock is a great LSD.
Awesome thanks for the input , guess in going to try some 34inch and see how we'll they do with the verilocks. Btw nice Rig reminds me a lot of my 1st Jeep WJ.
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Unread 06-05-2013, 06:02 PM   #20
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If you want to split hairs, MobilFluid 424 has been determined to be a suitable alternate to the dealer fluid for the 247. Depending on who you believe it may also be sold as Hydraul something or other (possibly others as well), but I wasn't able to definitively connect the two as being the same. For the 2 bottles that were required to do the oil change I deemed it a waste of time to research it any further, especially since I was only able to find the 424 in pails... a lifetime supply!
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Unread 06-05-2013, 08:04 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Planetcat View Post
This thread is deteriorating rapidly. FM in the transfer case? Seriously? Never, ever, put anything in an NV247 t-case except Mopar OE fluid. They are very sensitive.

First, how many miles on your WJ?


I know hind sight is 20/20, but you should have tested the 4wd system out before you bought your rig if you need it for winter snow driving. You are going to spend a couple hundred bucks on Mopar fluids for this. Let's hope it pays off.
152K miles.
I bought it from an auto broker in FLA, so there was no chance to test the AWD before. I asked if it was working properly and everything was checked out as "okay".

I appreciate all the advice, and I will try to change out the fluids and see how it is.
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Unread 06-05-2013, 08:17 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04Overland47 View Post
Friction modifier does not belong in your transfer case. I've read that a lot of Jeep techs at dealerships add it when customers complain of a noisey transfer case...they basically band-aid a potential underlying problem
Just to help you understand why you dont put it in your tc. The mechanism in the Transfer Case of a 247 that detects slippage and engages the front wheels is the viscous coupling. It is a cylinder filled with clutches and plates and has its own fluid/grease or whatever. If it starts to spin, these clutches will engage themselves, locking the coupling. It runs specifically off it's own fluid as it is a closed device. No amount of friction modifier in the case will assist this device as the fm does not actually enter the coupling. If you do not use the correct mopar fluid in the transfer case, it is possible to ruin the coupling from overheating or incorrect use, etc.
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Unread 06-05-2013, 08:33 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doorjamm

Just to help you understand why you dont put it in your tc. The mechanism in the Transfer Case of a 247 that detects slippage and engages the front wheels is the viscous coupling. It is a cylinder filled with clutches and plates and has its own fluid/grease or whatever. If it starts to spin, these clutches will engage themselves, locking the coupling. It runs specifically off it's own fluid as it is a closed device. No amount of friction modifier in the case will assist this device as the fm does not actually enter the coupling. If you do not use the correct mopar fluid in the transfer case, it is possible to ruin the coupling from overheating or incorrect use, etc.
Last I checked the 247 has the same type of gearator type coupling that's in the axils. That's why you do three tight figure 8's to purge all the air out of couplers after a fluid change. Its a hydraulic pump that spins when there is a difference in speed between either the axil shafts or the drive shafts. Which creates pressure to lock the clutch packs and drag along the slower shaft. Their is a small hole to bleed off the pressure slowly so that the pressure is maintained for a time after both halves of the gearator start to spin the same speed.

The 249 in the older ZJ had its own internal heat sensitive fluid (silicone i think) that expanded with temp and pressed the clutch pack together.

IMO of coarse. I slept in a Holiday Inn last night.
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Unread 06-06-2013, 06:53 AM   #24
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It's a progressive coupling, not a viscous coupling in the 247 just to be clear. We often use the terms interchangeably but there is technically a difference. Most people know that, it's just the terminology gets muddled. Just like the vari-lok often gets called a limited slip diff, which is arguably not entirely accurate.
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Unread 06-06-2013, 07:17 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by lazyWJ View Post
Just like the vari-lok often gets called a limited slip diff, which is arguably not entirely accurate.
A limited slip is exactly what the vari-lock is. Limited slip is the generic term, vari-lock is chryslers "brand name". Posi-trac is Fords "brand name" of their limited slip.
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Unread 06-06-2013, 07:27 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lazyWJ
It's a progressive coupling, not a viscous coupling in the 247 just to be clear. We often use the terms interchangeably but there is technically a difference. Most people know that, it's just the terminology gets muddled. Just like the vari-lok often gets called a limited slip diff, which is arguably not entirely accurate.
This guy is correct, I suppose I am wrong and should have thought it out/done the research (which is slightly embarrassing as I have torn down the 247 before. but i forgot about the pump attached at the rear output under the tail cover). It is an unsealed progressive coupler.

Morris 4x4 sells the parts and quotes:

Quote:
Unlike the viscous couplings used in the 1993-1998 Jeep ZJ Grand Cherokees, this Progressive Coupling is not a sealed unit. The NV247 Transfer Case utilizes an oil pump to circulate fluid through the unit. The Progressive Coupling can fail if the fluid breaks down and is not changed, or if the fluid level drops. If there is uneven tire pressure, this can cause the Progressive Coupling to "overwork" and eventually break down.
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Unread 06-06-2013, 09:06 AM   #27
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Yes LSD has been the generic term for a differential with a traction aid of any sort, and 50 years ago when it referred mostly to similar performing clutch/cone type diffs it was adequate. It's like saying "4wd" though and could mean anything (viscous, geared, ELSD, gerotor pump, clutch, cone etc). It doesn't make it wrong, it just makes it inaccurate. Hence why I said it's "arguably not entirely accurate" and not "wrong". The trac loc (which is actually jeep's name for the traditional LSD) and the vari lok are similar in neither construction nor how they perform, which really makes the definition of LSD as any differential that's not open. Again, not wrong, but also contains very little useful descriptive information.
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Unread 06-07-2013, 09:12 AM   #28
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Okay. I seriously have driven the Jeep very little even though I bought it back a couple months ago. I Tom it out this morning. It has been raining for hours, so I thought it would be a good chance to see what it would do. I got on a loose wet gravel lot. When I punched it, the passenger rear spun, then driver rear started spinning, then I felt the front wheels grab. The rear tire marks were roughly 4-5 feet long. I'm hoping this is a sign all is working correctly. I will still try to get to fluid changes in this thing when I get back from my two month TDY. Thanks for all the input guys.
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Unread 06-07-2013, 11:33 AM   #29
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Find some wet leaves on pavement and gun it in a pile. Then just pull over and make sure you have leaf bits behind every wheel. Since the Quadradrive system uses Vari-locks both front and rear, you should see both front wheels engaging as well. Overall it sounds like it's working alright, but mine all happens quite seamlessly and I'm not able to detect when the fronts engage or side to side as it all happens to quickly.
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Unread 06-07-2013, 12:30 PM   #30
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stick your head out the window and floor it, that's how I checked mine...
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