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Unread 06-10-2010, 05:17 PM   #1
tennesseewj
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P0031, P0051, and P0136

I'm slightly stumped guys.

The Jeep threw three codes at the same time:

P0031 - Shorted low condition detected in the oxygen sensor 1/1 heater elementcontrol feedback sense circuit ( Bank 1, Sensor 1)

P0051 - Shorted condition detected in the oxygen sensor heater element control feedback sense circuit. (Bank 2, Sensor 1)

P0136 - An open or shorted condition detected in the ASD or CNG shutoff relay control ckt. (Bank 1, Sensor 2)



After searching around on here, I figured out that those three codes are a symptom of the O2 sensor fuse blowing. Just to be sure, I replaced fuse (which was in fact blown) and now it has blown again.

My first thought was that some insulation has melted on the O2 sensor wires, causing a short and popping the fuse. After looking at the wires, though, I don't see anything wrong with them. I think I am going to try to pull all of the sensors and inspect the wiring closely (fun ).


Anyone know of something else that I should check before pulling all of the sensors? (4 of them, thanks to the California emissions package)

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Unread 06-10-2010, 06:38 PM   #2
tennesseewj
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Further inspection reveals something interesting.

The Haynes manual shows that California emissions should have a 20 amp fuse in the number 17 slot. The lid on the power distribution center says that I should have a 10 amp fuse in the number 16 slot.

What I actually have is a 15 amp in the number 16 slot.



Can anyone with an FSM confirm that the California emissions package is supposed to have a 20 amp fuse (would explain why it is popping a 15 amp)?

Can anyone run out to their WJ and tell me what size fuse your O2 sensor circuit is on?
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You need to learn, there are 3 things that all JF members must like beside Jeeps:
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I was bored so I forded the river. No oxen were lost.
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Unread 06-12-2010, 02:24 PM   #3
Randyaxion
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You saved me hundreds from the dealer

After 5 weeks with the engine light on and replacing all 4 sensors and a relay I saw your post and checked the fuse. I didn't know to check earlier, I only used the autozone code check and then the key turn 3 times check to see what was wrong. Then your post mentioned fuse and I checked and it was bad. I had just made appt. With he dealer because I didn't know what else to do. You really did save me probably hundreds from the dealer. By the way it was a fifteen amp fuse. And the original cause was a melted wire touching the exhaust and shorting out. Good luck for you. Thanks again.
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Unread 06-12-2010, 02:44 PM   #4
michiganmaveric
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Every where I look in my 2004 service manual it shows a 15a fuse in slot 16 except for the deisel which is a 20a. I would start by disconnecting all the O2 senors, 4 of them, and turn the key on and see if the fues blows, maybe even start it. Check your wiring. Slot 16 is for the Auto Shutdown Relay.
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Unread 06-12-2010, 03:18 PM   #5
tennesseewj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randyaxion View Post
After 5 weeks with the engine light on and replacing all 4 sensors and a relay I saw your post and checked the fuse. I didn't know to check earlier, I only used the autozone code check and then the key turn 3 times check to see what was wrong. Then your post mentioned fuse and I checked and it was bad. I had just made appt. With he dealer because I didn't know what else to do. You really did save me probably hundreds from the dealer. By the way it was a fifteen amp fuse. And the original cause was a melted wire touching the exhaust and shorting out. Good luck for you. Thanks again.
Glad it helped you out

Out of curiosity, do you remember which sensor had melted wires?

Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmaveric View Post
Every where I look in my 2004 service manual it shows a 15a fuse in slot 16 except for the deisel which is a 20a. I would start by disconnecting all the O2 senors, 4 of them, and turn the key on and see if the fues blows, maybe even start it. Check your wiring. Slot 16 is for the Auto Shutdown Relay.
Thank you for checking that - I am going to stick with the 15 amp fuse since it has worked fine for years until now, I just found it interesting that the discrepancy came up.


I may try disconnecting the sensors to see if it still blows, the only problem is that it takes about a week before it will blow the fuse. Intermittent problems suck to diagnose

I grabbed a multimeter and back-probed the fuse slot to watch the current while it was running. I had someone watch the output while I got under the Jeep and wiggled the harness for all four sensors and anything I could fine and could never make it get above 6 amps.


I think at this point I'm just going to order four new sensors and replace them. It's got 133k on it, so it probably won't hurt anyway.
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I was bored so I forded the river. No oxen were lost.
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Unread 06-29-2010, 05:15 PM   #6
pucycle
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Ssdd

I have the exact same issue, 2004 4.0L JGC w/ 102k mi and the same three codes. My fuse is blown (BTW I only checked because of your post). Oddly enough it is a 15A rather than 10A as the cover diagram shows. I have 4 O2 sensors which I think signifies that it's a California emissions compliant vehicle as well. So for those of you with this issue, did the fuse + 4 O2 sensor replacement resolve this issue? No more engine light? Thanks - AJ
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Unread 06-30-2010, 07:29 AM   #7
pucycle
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I tried disconnecting all four sensors and the fuse popped in about 1 sec. I'm guessing swapping the sensors won't get the root of the problem in this case.
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Unread 06-30-2010, 12:14 PM   #8
tennesseewj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pucycle View Post
I tried disconnecting all four sensors and the fuse popped in about 1 sec. I'm guessing swapping the sensors won't get the root of the problem in this case.
Don't tell me that, I just ordered new sensors


Mine doesn't pop very fast for some reason, it will stay off for about a week and suddenly pop again so maybe I'll get lucky and it will be in the sensor.


If you don't think it is your sensors, I would take a close look at the wiring harness that goes to the sensors. The only problem is that most of it is covered in wire loom so it may be tough to find a problem even if the problem is there.


My only other theory on this problem is that the wiring for the "ASD or CNG shutoff relay control circuit" as suggested by the P0136 code. I find it odd that this code comes up since the ASD circuit has its own fuse, so it seems like it should be separate from the O2 circuit.

The ASD fuse is slot 6 in this diagram

http://wjjeeps.com/misc/power_dist_ctr_02.jpg

by the way. I think I'm going to take a closer look at that circuit tonight, if I can find where the wires run....



Edit: If we can't get this problem figured out, I'll burn your Jeep down if you'll burn mine.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sporer65 View Post
You need to learn, there are 3 things that all JF members must like beside Jeeps:
(1) Guns (2) Women (3) Bacon
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraKee99 View Post
I was bored so I forded the river. No oxen were lost.
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Unread 06-30-2010, 04:51 PM   #9
pucycle
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I've spent the last day or so peeling back loom and cleaning off wires. Every time I think I see a warn wire it turns out to be dirt.

In the back of my mind I wonder if it could be PCM related. I just replaced my Throttle Position Sensor a week or so ago. 6 months before it was the fuel injector in cylinder 6 (plus connector). The common pieces are the main wire harness and the PCM.

Hey if we meet in the middle there are some really deep lakes in KY...could be safer than burning.
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Unread 06-30-2010, 07:22 PM   #10
drgonzo92
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Top of the motor, towards the back right of the valve cover near the rear firewall is a wiring loom that rests on a stud sticking out of the motor. This loom wears through from rubbing on that to the point of getting to the wires. Some of the wires are for the O2 sensors. They wear through and short out. I as well as many other people have had this problem. I am betting that this is your problem. I like found this out the hard way.

Let me know if this helps ya out.
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Unread 07-01-2010, 09:07 AM   #11
tennesseewj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pucycle View Post
I've spent the last day or so peeling back loom and cleaning off wires. Every time I think I see a warn wire it turns out to be dirt.

In the back of my mind I wonder if it could be PCM related. I just replaced my Throttle Position Sensor a week or so ago. 6 months before it was the fuel injector in cylinder 6 (plus connector). The common pieces are the main wire harness and the PCM.

Hey if we meet in the middle there are some really deep lakes in KY...could be safer than burning.
It's possible that it's PCM related but I really hope not. This has been the absolute first electrical issue I've had with my Jeep and I hope it will be the last - electricity is sneaky. I'd rather be replacing the engine than dealing with wiring

As far as the lakes....I've been needing a good fishing trip

Edit: I also know what you mean about thinking dirty wires are worn wires. I keep getting excited thinking I found the issue and then my heart just drops every time haha

Quote:
Originally Posted by drgonzo92 View Post
Top of the motor, towards the back right of the valve cover near the rear firewall is a wiring loom that rests on a stud sticking out of the motor. This loom wears through from rubbing on that to the point of getting to the wires. Some of the wires are for the O2 sensors. They wear through and short out. I as well as many other people have had this problem. I am betting that this is your problem. I like found this out the hard way.

Let me know if this helps ya out.

I'm pretty sure I checked there because I remember seeing that wiring near the stud, but I will double check it
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sporer65 View Post
You need to learn, there are 3 things that all JF members must like beside Jeeps:
(1) Guns (2) Women (3) Bacon
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraKee99 View Post
I was bored so I forded the river. No oxen were lost.
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Unread 07-01-2010, 03:38 PM   #12
tennesseewj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drgonzo92 View Post
Top of the motor, towards the back right of the valve cover near the rear firewall is a wiring loom that rests on a stud sticking out of the motor. This loom wears through from rubbing on that to the point of getting to the wires. Some of the wires are for the O2 sensors. They wear through and short out. I as well as many other people have had this problem. I am betting that this is your problem. I like found this out the hard way.

Let me know if this helps ya out.
On second thought, are you referring to the very large wire loom that hugs the back of the valve cover? If that's the one you were referring to maybe I'll go do a double-take on it....
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2004 4.0 Selec-Trac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sporer65 View Post
You need to learn, there are 3 things that all JF members must like beside Jeeps:
(1) Guns (2) Women (3) Bacon
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraKee99 View Post
I was bored so I forded the river. No oxen were lost.
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Unread 07-01-2010, 09:03 PM   #13
pucycle
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I've been focusing my hunt on that big 1.5in (or so) bunch that drgonzo92 mentioned. I did find a schematic of this part of the electrical system and according to it our culprit should be orange with a dark green tracer.

It also looks like the ASD related code must show up because the power has to pass through that on the way to fuse #16 (and anything else of importance for fuel, air, or exhaust monitoring).

I'm also ruling out PCM for now because the circuit only connects to the PCM after the sensor. I could be wrong but that's the way it looks.

Starting to wonder what type of cost and effort it would take to swap out that whole wire harness. I think it's all one big sub assembly.
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Unread 07-01-2010, 10:11 PM   #14
pucycle
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I actually think I just found it. I was looking at the wrong side after his post. There was a quarter size hole in the wire wrap at the back right side of the valve cover (when you are standing in front of the car facing the motor). I missed the wire the first 20 times I looked at that spot because of the way the wrap twists w/o moving the wires. It appears to be good to go when the wires are away from that stud. We'll see tomorrow once I drive it for a bit.
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Unread 07-02-2010, 08:50 AM   #15
tennesseewj
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Hot damn, I felt under that big chunk of wiring harness and there is definitely a hole in the loom. I will be inspecting closer when I get back into Knoxville today but I'm also positive that's where the problem is.

I could hug you right now drgonzo
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2004 4.0 Selec-Trac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sporer65 View Post
You need to learn, there are 3 things that all JF members must like beside Jeeps:
(1) Guns (2) Women (3) Bacon
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraKee99 View Post
I was bored so I forded the river. No oxen were lost.
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