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Unread 02-21-2014, 12:40 PM   #1
zeus1gdsm
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Just when u think u fixed it all.....

so i just dropped 1000 on the ol beast this past weekend. new tires all the way around (cooper starfire sf510) Nice lil all season with an aggressive tread.
a new tie rod and wheel bearing on the drivers side. and mad did she tighten up and feel 1000% times better.

So i of course she had to not start for the wife on wednesday. key turns fine but she just spins and doesnt catch and start up.

I tried all the usual culprits. battery, terminals / connections, whack the ol' solenoid and got nothing.

so i start researching. and my research is pointing me in the CPS, FUELS SYSTEM, Neutral / ignition switch.


of note : car starter installed a month ago ( not the best for a tired old 130k jeep)... gotta love the inlaws but there are other things i would have rather gotten for xmas... and unfortuneatly it was a non refundable deal.... its been working fine.

also of note. sometimes when you go to turn the key it is stuck and wont turn but some jiggling and taking it in and out and shell then turn and start the car. this has been happening for about 6 months. and still happens now with the issue occuring.


CPS: guages do light up and show my fuel and battery lvls... so im thinking its not this. ( havent pulled codes yet)

FUel System : Cant tell iff the pump is firing.. im deaf and cant turn the key inside and get outside fats enough to hear it... ( checking better later tonite with the wife's assitance) BUT i was able to locate the schraeder valve ( passenger side on the v8?) and absolutely no gas comes out at all.. even after priming( turning the key several times)

STarter: seems to sping just fine but wont engage... i know that sometimes the NSS and IGNITIONSwitch cant impact this and cause the bendix to not pop...so i will be tryign to bridge it tonight with a screwdriver.

But the fact i cant hear the pump and fuel sprayed leads me to the fuel system. so ill check the relays etc. and see what happens....

IF IT IS the fuel pump... is the consensus to cut out a piece of the spare wheel well for acces?? or drop the tank? I just filled it up before this happened. ( yes i looked for frosen gas lines and heated the garage and its been above freezing the last few days here melting the snow)



SO what Say ye? is my reaosning sound? cut or dont cut?

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Unread 02-21-2014, 12:44 PM   #2
boybadone
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how do you like the tires?
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Unread 02-21-2014, 12:44 PM   #3
zeus1gdsm
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should note ill be trying to spray some starter fluid after work tonite and if she starts right up that tells me its the fuel system.
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Unread 02-21-2014, 12:56 PM   #4
zeus1gdsm
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tires are quite nice... not much data online for them. found a couple forum posts with good response.. local tire company had them and there were probably 60 user reviews on their website ( mavisdiscounttire.com)

I was origanally looking at AT's ( cooper AT3's, gen grabbers etc.) but decided to save a few bucks since the jeep will only be around for a few more years. I find the tread to be a good compromise so far real good in the snow.
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Unread 02-21-2014, 01:11 PM   #5
PeteYJTJ
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I'm confused...... Is the starter turning over the motor? You talk about whacking the solenoid, and the bendix not popping up......

Is the motor turning over, or is just the starter spinning?

First things first..... get the motor to turn over, then if it doesn't start, find out why.

Good luck
Pete
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Unread 02-21-2014, 02:12 PM   #6
TURNER76
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I cut my spare tire well out and love it.Fixed were i could take It In and out with metal brackets,Gives me Instant access to the fuel pump and rear upper ball joint.I would not do this to newer car but mine has 170 on It so I was like what the hell.If you do decide to drop the tank though spray the bolts that hold the fuel tank good with pb blaster,I had two brake on me they were so rusted.
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Unread 02-21-2014, 02:30 PM   #7
zeus1gdsm
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hmmmm what is beth tool to use to cut with? choices are.... angle grinder, drill, sawzall... guess i could buy a jig saw..
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Unread 02-21-2014, 02:35 PM   #8
soonerdg
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I'm a little confused. If you're saying the starter spins but doesn't engage the flywheel to turn the engine then it's abolutely a problem with the starter. Or the flywheel is missing teeth. But for sure the fuel pump won't cause that problem. Now the engine is actually turning over and it still won't start then it could be the fuel pump.
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Unread 02-21-2014, 02:38 PM   #9
soonerdg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus1gdsm View Post
STarter: seems to sping just fine but wont engage... i know that sometimes the NSS and IGNITIONSwitch cant impact this and cause the bendix to not pop...so i will be tryign to bridge it tonight with a screwdriver.
Neither of those will cause the bendix not to pop out if the starter is spinning. You can take the starter out and apply power directly from the battery and if it's good it will spin and the bendix will pop out. No NSS or ignition switch involved. If it's spinning and the bendix isn't popping out then you've got a bad starter. If the bendix is popping out and just not engaging the flywheel then the flywheel is missing teeth.
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Unread 02-21-2014, 02:56 PM   #10
zeus1gdsm
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it sounds like it is trying to start but just not catching... again regardless of the starter situation the schraeder valve should spray fuel if the fuel pump is /filer / relays etc are working... with a bad starter the fuel lines should still pressurize... which doesnt seem to be happening.

I appreciate all the input ill have done the starter fluid test in a couple hours a post back.

based on my experiance with starters and stuck bendix's i really am leaning towards the fuel./ ESPECIALLY when the schreader valve didnt give anything....

in regards to the NSS/IS.. the there was a very blatent video on bleepinjeep.com where in his example using a starter and 12v source. we wa simpulating a bad IS?NSS via the wire that connects in there. and without power the bendix doesnt engage. but the outer core spins. and by using a screw driver to bridge from the hot connection to where the safety wire comes in the bendix would pop. or its possible the killians clouded my memory. it has been known to happen.
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Unread 02-21-2014, 03:20 PM   #11
soonerdg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus1gdsm View Post
it sounds like it is trying to start but just not catching... again regardless of the starter situation the schraeder valve should spray fuel if the fuel pump is /filer / relays etc are working... with a bad starter the fuel lines should still pressurize... which doesnt seem to be happening.

I appreciate all the input ill have done the starter fluid test in a couple hours a post back.

based on my experiance with starters and stuck bendix's i really am leaning towards the fuel./ ESPECIALLY when the schreader valve didnt give anything....

in regards to the NSS/IS.. the there was a very blatent video on bleepinjeep.com where in his example using a starter and 12v source. we wa simpulating a bad IS?NSS via the wire that connects in there. and without power the bendix doesnt engage. but the outer core spins. and by using a screw driver to bridge from the hot connection to where the safety wire comes in the bendix would pop. or its possible the killians clouded my memory. it has been known to happen.
I'm pretty sure that the ignition sends power to both the starter and the solenoid at the same time.the solenoid is what engages the bendix. So if it's getting power to the starter motor it's getting power to the solenoid. I don't think there are basically two ignition switches that power the starter motor and the solenoid separately. Same with the NSS. It interupts power to the whole unit, not to each one separately. The issue you're describing is most likely a bad solenoid.
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Unread 02-21-2014, 04:19 PM   #12
zeus1gdsm
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So the starting fluid did not get her catch and start up for a second... but I was able to tell without a doubt that the pulleys (alternator etc) are spinning.... this indicates that the Bendix is functioning correct?

And not starting with fluid would then indicate a spark issue?
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Unread 02-21-2014, 04:52 PM   #13
zeus1gdsm
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Alright so my father stopped over to see the kids. So I dragged him outside.. we were able to get the air cowl/intake totally off to expose the throttle body... it was bone dry inside.. tossed in a bit of gas and she fired right up. Ran till the gas was gone hut then died...

So we took the spare out and he stuck his head in there to see if he could hear anything... neither of us did...... anything delivery specific I should check before we do the pump? I swapped the fuel pump fuse for a new fuse and still no luck.. I figure first thing is disconnect the pump power and test it for voltage.
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Unread 02-21-2014, 05:22 PM   #14
TURNER76
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Yeah thats a good idea,I would def make sure the pump is not coming on before you go any further.I can hear my pump come on as soon as you turn the key to the start position.
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Unread 02-21-2014, 06:17 PM   #15
JeepNowski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus1gdsm View Post
Alright so my father stopped over to see the kids. So I dragged him outside..

Please forgive me, but when I read this part it sounded like some kind of weird euphemism for pooping or something.....

Also, you may have already posted this but I didn't see.....What codes (if any) are you getting?
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