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The JK-241OR in a WJ swap decoded.

17K views 43 replies 10 participants last post by  KUSTRA 
#1 ·
This swap has long been pondered over, and as advanced adapters has called it "Impossible" to me, followed by(we must build you a custom atlas for 2700... :thumbdown:) . I'm here to prove them wrong.

First, Lets talk about why this hasn't been done or why AA calls it impossible.
The 241or is highly saughtafter with the 4:1 low ratio. It is also a redheaded step child of the same family. Now note this too... MOST of the jk241or cases use a Short 23 spline input shaft. While this is correct spline for a 545rfe in our wj's, It is too short to fully engage the splines at the transmission and into the seal. You CANNOT swap input shafts from any case that has a 2.72 ratio. This is where most people call it quits.
So talking with another member who swapped a 271 in noted that when he did his, he used a tail housing out of a 99+ dodge 2500. They are also a 545rfe but the tail housing is about 1.5" shorter...
Ladies and Gentlemen... We have found our holy grail. :cheers:
The dodge tail housing allows the new case to slide closer to the trans, allowing full engagement of the splines and seal.

Now here is a quick note for those on the hunt for a 241or(specifically dealing with ones out of JKs).
There is 2 input shafts that are found in the 241or cases. Prior to 2012, all the cases are the correct to use 23 spline short shaft. In 2012, Jeep retired the 45ref for the W5A580 which uses a 26 spline male shaft(which just so happens to be the one I bought. . :oops: .) So the FYI here,The correct input shaft is next to impossible to find. I have called 6 different dealers and all come up with nothing. We currently believe that 12+ MANUALS would still use the old 23 spline, But we have not confirmed this as of yet.

That's it! I am still working on the rest of the details but this should be the ultimate solution to make this combination work! Stay tuned to this thread as I will update it with how my swap goes.

:cheers2::2thumbsup::highfive::thumbsup:

Update so you guys don't have to read too much unless you want(which is a good thing to do anyways)

V8 545RFE new tail housing: 52119433AB
This will allow you to run a 1 3/8" 23 spline input shaft from more common tcases including the 241or

You will need to modify your cross member and either get the corresponding mount from the dodge housing or modify your old one.

As far as which 241or to get...
Just stay away from 12+ JK Auto cases. They are the wrong input and I have yet to find even a part number to change it. You cannot swap your input from any 2.72 ratio case(241,231,242,247,.....)
The difference between JK and TJ cases is that TJs use a speed sensor on the tail output. This maybe useful if you are doing an axle swap and not adding tone rings to the axles. TJ cases can some times cost a premium due to their limited availability.
 
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#2 ·
This swap has long been pondered over, and as advanced adapters has called it "Impossible" to me, followed by(we must build you a custom atlas for 2700... :thumbdown:) . I'm here to prove them wrong.

First, Lets talk about why this hasn't been done or why AA calls it impossible.
The 241or is highly saught after with the 4:1 low ratio. It is also a redheaded step child of the same family. Now note this too... MOST of the jk241or cases use a Short 23 spline input shaft. While this is correct spline for a 545rfe in our wj's, It is too short to fully engage the splines at the transmission and into the seal. You CANNOT swap input shafts from any case that has a 2.72 ratio. This is where most people call it quits.
So talking with another member who swapped a 271 in noted that when he did his, he used a tail housing out of a 99+ dodge 2500. They are also a 545rfe but the tail housing is about 1.5" shorter...
Ladies and Gentlemen... We have found our holy grail. :cheers:
The dodge tail housing allows the new case to slide closer to the trans, allowing full engagement of the splines and seal.

Now here is a quick note for those on the hunt for a 241or(specifically dealing with ones out of JKs).
There is 2 input shafts that are found in the 241or cases. Prior to 2012, all the cases are the correct to use 23 spline short shaft. In 2012, Jeep retired the 45ref for the W5A580 which uses a 26 spline male shaft(which just so happens to be the one I bought. . :oops: .) So the FYI here, I called the dealer yesterday and it would cost 400 for the old shaft... We currently believe that 12+ MANUALS would still use the old 23 spline, But we have not confirmed this as of yet.

That's it! I am still working on the rest of the details but this should be the ultimate solution to make this combination work! Stay tuned to this thread as I will update it with how my swap goes.

:cheers2::2thumbsup::highfive::thumbsup:
I am not sure about all D 2500 PUs but my 2001 was not a 545rfe, one thing for sure Dodge trucks have different transmissions behind different engines. I believe that I would be looking at 2002 and up D 1500 PUs for an adapter. OR possibly an adapter from a Dakota or Durango, this link list years and transmissions http://www.autorepairmanuals.biz/page/371346

Why I say that is I did some research on this a few years ago, the first clue I found about the swap used a D 1500 transfer case adapter was in an AEV article. Then on Tacoma Territory one of the members that I think was converting a 2WD 4.7 Dodge Dakota to 4X4 found out he could remove the tail housing from the transmission and switch it to a 4X4 D 1500 tail housing or as Mopar calls that part a 4X4 adapter or a transfer case adapter to match the input length of a 241OR.

Also I have a standard 241 T case out of a 02 or later D 1500 that had a 45rfe or 545rfe transmission, the input on it was very short so the adapter very likely was the one that a 241OR would need. The adapters have P/Ns on them, when you get the correct adapter you might post the P/N.

One other note When the guy with the Dakota changed to the different tail housing (T case adapter) the transmission mount was in the wrong place and possibly he had some other clearance issues so he had to fabricate a new cross member, you may also have to do that.
 
#4 ·
Jeeples looking at my old notes I found dimensions that indicated V/8 WJ T case adapter housings P/N 52098690 measure 5 3/4 long. There is multiple P/Ns for the adapter housings or extension housing. The problem is finding a listed length. One I did find a length for is P/N 52107719 it is found on multiple Dodge 4X4s with 45rfe and 545rfe transmissions, the info I found listed it as 4 1/2" long so about 1 1/4" shorter than a WJ extension. It would take a few actual measurements of the OR V/S WJ input shaft length difference and a look at where the seal would run to be sure that 1 1/4 shorter adapter is the adapter that will work.
 
#5 ·
ok So the part number Im going to start with is #52119433AB and that is infact behind a 45rfe(545rfe). I double checked that to the member who is using that adapter on his WJ. Unit price is 287.00 but you could probably work a deal for 220ish if you go in paying cash. He noted it was 1.5" shorter than the WJ adapter
I have been thinking about if the trans mount needs to move, Im hoping, if it moved 1.5" further forward in the same spot, Ill just make a bracket that will bolt at the old location and the new mount... nice and simple and I wont have to move my crossmember
 
#9 ·
Seltzer when you have both adapters in hand measure both lengths from mounting surface to mounting surface dead accurately then post the lengths.

It might pay to search Ebay for a used transfer case adapter, Dodge transfer case adapters are on there all the time for $50 and up. Another place to check is transmission repair shops, often they have junk transmissions with the adapters still attached that you can buy the T case adapter off for way less than new price.

EDIT the Dodge adapter number you have #52119433AB is the one that AEV says must be used with 545rfe transmissions when using their 2007 to 2010 JK Hemi swap kit. So it sure sounds like that is the correct adapter for JK T cases.
 
#8 ·
This swap has long been pondered over, and as advanced adapters has called it "Impossible" to me, followed by(we must build you a custom atlas for 2700... :thumbdown:) . I'm here to prove them wrong.

First, Lets talk about why this hasn't been done or why AA calls it impossible.
The 241or is highly saughtafter with the 4:1 low ratio. It is also a redheaded step child of the same family. Now note this too... MOST of the jk241or cases use a Short 23 spline input shaft. While this is correct spline for a 545rfe in our wj's, It is too short to fully engage the splines at the transmission and into the seal. You CANNOT swap input shafts from any case that has a 2.72 ratio. This is where most people call it quits.
So talking with another member who swapped a 271 in noted that when he did his, he used a tail housing out of a 99+ dodge 2500. They are also a 545rfe but the tail housing is about 1.5" shorter...
Ladies and Gentlemen... We have found our holy grail. :cheers:
The dodge tail housing allows the new case to slide closer to the trans, allowing full engagement of the splines and seal.

Now here is a quick note for those on the hunt for a 241or(specifically dealing with ones out of JKs).
There is 2 input shafts that are found in the 241or cases. Prior to 2012, all the cases are the correct to use 23 spline short shaft. In 2012, Jeep retired the 45ref for the W5A580 which uses a 26 spline male shaft(which just so happens to be the one I bought. . :oops: .) So the FYI here, I called the dealer yesterday and it would cost 400 for the old shaft... We currently believe that 12+ MANUALS would still use the old 23 spline, But we have not confirmed this as of yet.

That's it! I am still working on the rest of the details but this should be the ultimate solution to make this combination work! Stay tuned to this thread as I will update it with how my swap goes.

:cheers2::2thumbsup::highfive::thumbsup:
I'm intrigued by how this turns out and am subscribing to follow along. One note, however, my 2004 Dodge Ram 2500 (Cummins) has a 48RE 4-speed automatic transmission, not the smaller 45RE that's in my WJ.
 
#10 ·
I have officially found 3 different input shafts found in jk 241or cases. Will post pictures of all 3 in a little bit. So far is the medium length (traditional) Shaft, the male spine one like I have and now I have found one with a 23 spline internal like the triditions one but it's so short, it's almost flush with the seal... this is interesting.
 
#12 ·
It may be an optical illusion but the front cover on the T case look different in the seal area. The front cover looks like seal area is recessed where the seal presses in on the male spline version, on the short protruding shaft version the seal area looks like it is not recessed if anything it is flush or forward of the mating surface, if true that could be a problem???? Check out the close up photos on jbconversions web page http://www.jbconversions.com/products/nvg241or/
 
#13 ·
I think you are onto something to be noted... Honestly, its kinda flustering how many variations there seem to be... That is usually not the common consensus.
But JB does show a good picture of the shaft measurement were after.
1-3/8" from the mounting flange. Now Im just questioning if the TJ version isnt the one with the seal surface being like you said, More like the first picture, at the seal.
Either way, I will continue to move forward. I wont be able to pick up the rest of my parts until next month so this will atleast give me time to do more research.
 

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#14 ·
I'm not sure how a shorter tail housing will allow this swap to work. A shorter tail housing doesn't shift the whole mainshaft and input shaft forward...

If a solution exists id guess an adapter can be made to couple the tcase input shaft and trans output and seal
 
#16 ·
I'm not sure how a shorter tail housing will allow this swap to work. A shorter tail housing doesn't shift the whole mainshaft and input shaft forward...

If a solution exists id guess an adapter can be made to couple the tcase input shaft and trans output and seal
The output shaft on the transmission will remain in the same place, Shortening the adapter will allow the tcase to move forward and further onto the output shaft where it needs to be.
 
#15 ·
I will say this, I'm currently on the search for the part number for the input shaft. I should be looking for a Input for a 07-11 JK Rubi Auto with a 45RFE. If that is the correct length shaft, then we can start looking up who has it... otherwise the dealer is the only option(if you do need to swap). Im going to call the dealer tomorrow and start poking around. I think the last dealer got a little irritated at the fact that I made him look it up the long way(not having a vin to go off of). But Ill call up a different dealer and see if I cant get the part number on it. I haven't been able to get a good exploded diagram of the 241or with a part reference number to the input shaft.
 
#18 ·
OK long story short... go find the correct tcase with the exposed shaft... selling mine.. not worth the headache of buying a input shaft and swapping without knowing for sure if it'll even work. not going to spend 1200 on a replacement planatary and shaft to have the correct one... just.. not... worth it...
(Clarifying: Not giving up on the 241or project, just the particular case I bought. Finding a input shaft from the dealer is a pain and overpriced)
 
#19 ·
Setzer The only 241OR that I would look for is the one that has the 1 3/8" male input like the one in JB conversions picture. I am sure that length with a Dodge truck transfer case adapter will bolt up to a WJ. The reason I am sure is I have a regular 241 out of a 2002 Dodge 1500 that had a 4.7 and a 45rfe transmission, it is the T case on the left in the picture below. The shaft sticks out exactly 1 3/8" when measured from the mounting surface just like the 241OR in JBs picture. The VIN on the 1500 was 1D7HU18N42S636043, I tried a few parts searches for the transfer case adapter P/N using the VIN but could not find it.

The other T case in the picture is a Dodge 1500 231 with a WJ V/8 247 input installed.

 
#20 ·
Oh yeah, I know it will work, But the case I bought has the external spline input shaft. been chasing part numbers and working with a dealer who was actually a lot more willing to work with me on finding a input shaft than I was expecting him to be. My issue is, without someone on the inside whos able to tell us where to get the input shaft that is 1 3/8" length. Other wise for 200-1200 for a shaft from the dealer for me isnt worth it. Im just going to hunt down another 241or with the correct shaft... I was hoping I could pick up one from the dealer for 200 at worst... just seems to not be that simple... Theyre not even sure what the differences are since on their end its just a number... no specs or anything.
 
#22 ·
Ok. So, heres what Im finding. If you do decide to do this swap. Stay away from 12+ auto JKs. I've found a total of 3-4 variants of input shafts. its kind of the reason Im still stalling on this right now. My friend bought a case and I bought a case, mine worked when we did the swap in his jk so I got his case... but it still wont work for mine so my new one is up forsale. Anyways.. Look for the 07-11 autos/manuals or 12+ manuals only, TJ rubi cases should work as well considering Tjs elsewise had 231s that have swapped into many wjs. But again, what you're looking for is a 23 female spline input that sticks out 1-3/8" from the mounting surface. As for buying a 12+ auto and buying an input shaft... well, its going to have to be from a dealer. No one has them. Period... im going to make one more call to the dealer tomorrow. I was working with a really good guy and if we can eliminate 12+ autos from our parts search, we might find a replacement input shaft... Last for sure number we could go off of was a whole new planetary and input shaft assembly and that was like... $1200 so I didn't jump on that, but, their were other part numbers to input shafts, but in his listings, they don't specify anything like spline count.. only total length.. but it was a vague shipping size so.. (slight glimmer of hope, but well see)

Only other thing anticipating to tackle is shifter linkage. Not sure if I will get away with using the original cable from the WJ or not.. haven't stared that hard at it yet. Just trying to get the right case here first.

I will be throwing a 2 Low kit in mine before I throw it in, Going to be changing out the yokes anyways, might as well split the case and make sure everything is nice and tight inside too right? lol ;)

Here is a couple of tcase assembly numbers to have for reference. Found on the rear tag and the sticker on the top of the case around the planetary cover. If you find one with a different number, get as much other information as you can.(year and transmission).
52111013AD(TJ 4:1 Tcase)
52123503AA(Noted out of a 12 autos. Flush shaft and 26spline male shaft. Will not work directly for wj swap)
 
#25 ·
#27 ·
That link shows a standard jk 241. Jks came with 241j and 241or. But still the same rules apply. Not sure about the 48re, but 5.7 dodges and v8 wjs use a (5)45rfe. Now along my quest of part numbers, we did find a cross reference number for a 241or case that refereed also to a dodge truck as well as rubicon wranglers. Does this mean there are dodge trucks out there with 241or transfercases that we haven't a clue about?

My plans have changed slightly for the moment. After being frustrated with getting a 241or for a reasonable price with the correct shaft, I turned my head another direction. I purchased a Northwest Fab eco box and a jk 241j. I will have a 7:1 reduction and should I choose then to take out the 241j out and put in an or, I will have a true 4 speed 10:1... still using the new adapter since the internals of my eco box were all taken from a 231j from a tj.

I'll post pictures a little later of my current setup
 
#30 ·
Heres where Im at mounting my underdrive. this is more work than what this thread is about but its all about options with the new adapter, and I believe thats the real point here..
Tcase and underdrive come in at 110lbs... Ill be supporting all this weight with a custom crossmember/skid.
 

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#33 ·
Clarification

Can we confirm that if someone wants to mount a 241 from a JK that it needs to be 07-11 JK Manual or Auto or a 12 or newer manual. They need to have a 1 3/8" input sticking out from the face of the transfer case.

Also either 52119433AB or 52107719 will work as transfer case adapters?

A TJ Rubicon case would be better to use because of the yokes already set up for 1310s?

Also when you switch the transfer case adapter you will have to make a plate to fit the old cross member? Along with changing your drive shafts and your shifting linkage?
 
#34 ·
Confirmation

Can we confirm that if someone wants to mount a 241 from a JK that it needs to be 07-11 JK Manual or Auto or a 12 or newer manual. They need to have a 1 3/8" input sticking out from the face of the transfer case.

Also either 52119433AB or 52107719 will work as transfer case adapters?

A TJ Rubicon case would be better to use because of the yokes already set up for 1310s?

Also when you switch the transfer case adapter you will have to make a plate to fit the old cross member? Along with changing your drive shafts and your shifting linkage?
 
#35 ·
Can we confirm that if someone wants to mount a 241 from a JK that it needs to be 07-11 JK Manual or Auto or a 12 or newer manual. They need to have a 1 3/8" input sticking out from the face of the transfer case.
correct. the 12+ autos use the oddball external spline inputshaft which is no good for us or anyone else...

Also either 52119433AB or 52107719 will work as transfer case adapters?
A TJ Rubicon case would be better to use because of the yokes already set up for 1310s?
I dont know if you could call it 'better' essentially it will be the same. Yokes for a JK are cheap to get too.. TJs will probably be more expensive considering their limited numbers. and they run a speedo off the tail shaft... that will be a decision per your application...

Also when you switch the transfer case adapter you will have to make a plate to fit the old cross member? Along with changing your drive shafts and your shifting linkage?
yes, a new trans mount will need to be had(would be adviced to get one for the transmission adapter... then modify the mounts to fit. since the wj runs a cable shifter, modification will be limited to none.. worse case being getting a new cable.. new driveshafts and good to go..
 
#37 ·
Let us know! 241 would be an excellent choice as well.

Again, I think the main thing to take away is getting away from the thought of limited Tcase selections in the wj due to the input shaft. you can essentially run any 23 spline tcase.. 231.. 241..241or..Im not a fan of the 247-242 cases due to the part time/full time features..
 
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