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Unread 01-30-2014, 10:47 AM   #1
s99
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Jeep Sputtering between 1000-1500 RPM (video)

I just purchased a 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 2WD 4.7 175k.

The Jeep idles a little high on 950 RPM, it sputters and shakes as soon as you slightly give it gas, between 1000-1500 RPM, but after 1500 it revs normal, shifts and drives fine. When you let go of the gas the RPM drops down quickly back to idling and sputters again when you give it gas. The sputter worsens under load (taking off from a green light going uphill). The longer I drove the Jeep the more power is lost. The sputtering would last longer and the RPM would get lower and lower. Sometimes the sputtering lasts forever and never gets past 1500 RPM. If I restart the engine whether its cold or hot, it gains full power again and idles back to 950.

For example: On a cold or hot start the engine would idle on 950. The first 10 minutes of driving the RPM would drop to 600ish, another 5-10 minutes it drops to 400ish, eventually the engine dies out, especially when coming to a stop. I read somewhere that the computer shuts off each coils/injectors if they malfunction, but runs again after restarting the engine.

The Jeep had replaced heads from overheating in the past, brake booster has a vacuum leak that creates a loud hissing sound near the brake pedal (the RPM changes slightly when booster is plugged, but still sputtering). Oils are OK. The previous owner did a not so good job replacing the head (wrong bolt sizes, exposed PCM cables, loose coil plugs). He said the Jeep has been sitting on his driveway for months and now he's deciding to sell it. He said he doesn't have time to fix the car and could not remember the last time he drove it. CEL came on for ignition coils and misfire.

The engine also makes a tapping sound too. a mechanic confirmed a bad lifter or arm, but I know thats a different problem from the sputtering. He wasn't able to know the sputtering problem at the time. Seeing how the engine shakes violently while sputtering I can see why a rocker arm would fall off.

This is starting the Jeep in the morning on a cold engine. You don't need to watch the whole video.

These are the codes pulled:
P0351 - Ignition Coil #1 Circuit Malfunction
P0352 - Ignition Coil #2 Circuit Malfunction
P0352 - Ignition Coil #2 Circuit Malfunction
P0354 - Ignition Coil #4 Circuit Malfunction
P0355 - Ignition Coil #5 Circuit Malfunction
P0356 - Ignition Coil #6 Circuit Malfunction
P0357 - Ignition Coil #7 Circuit Malfunction
P0358 - Ignition Coil #8 Circuit Malfunction

(update: 2/9/14)
P0300 - Multiple Cylinder Misfire
P0301 - Misfire Cylinder #1
P0302 - Misfire Cylinder #2
P0303 - Misfire Cylinder #3
P0304 - Misfire Cylinder #4
P0305 - Misfire Cylinder #5
P0306 - Misfire Cylinder #6
P0307 - Misfire Cylinder #7
P0308 - Misfire Cylinder #8

I'd like to try to resolve this issue, can anyone recommend me some things to diagnose and find the problem?

Thank you!


Last edited by s99; 02-11-2014 at 11:50 AM..
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Unread 01-30-2014, 11:51 AM   #2
Thomahawk
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Vacum leak make it idle to high, resolve this FIRST.

Then, Pull and inspect plugs and gap, or replace and gap correctly.

http://www.wjjeeps.com/service/sparkplugs.htm

Next, clean out Throttle body/IAC/TPS and check/replace Airfilter

http://www.wjjeeps.com/service/tbody.htm

Then disco battery and recheck codes to reset eventual previous codes stored in the system.

Next, report back here with codes and update on how it running or not,,,
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Unread 01-30-2014, 11:54 AM   #3
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After looking at your video, pull valve cover and inspect for fallen rocker arm, search "4.7 rocker arm DIY" on YouTube.

Good luck
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Unread 01-30-2014, 11:59 AM   #4
mycreativename
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Sounds like the one I just bought. I hope for your sake and checkbook that it isn't though.

Mine dropped a rocker arm, must have hit the valve spring with the rocker (cause the spring broke and shot through the valve cover), which allowed the valve to drop down and contact the piston, bending the valve. Long story short I'm pulling the entire engine to rebuild it.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f310/...ngine-2024377/

I would definitely start by pulling the valve cover on the driver side, see if everything is good in there, if so, go to the passenger side. Hopefully only a dropped rocker (which also sounds like this).
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Unread 02-01-2014, 10:50 PM   #5
s99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomahawk View Post
Vacum leak make it idle to high, resolve this FIRST.

Then, Pull and inspect plugs and gap, or replace and gap correctly.

http://www.wjjeeps.com/service/sparkplugs.htm

Next, clean out Throttle body/IAC/TPS and check/replace Airfilter

http://www.wjjeeps.com/service/tbody.htm

Then disco battery and recheck codes to reset eventual previous codes stored in the system.

Next, report back here with codes and update on how it running or not,,,
Do you know if all the vacuum hoses are located on the resonator and throttle area? They all seem to show no leaks, except the hose to the brake booster, but when I remove and block the brake booster hose the engine idles slightly different. No where near 700ish.

I'll try next step and inspect the plugs asap.
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Unread 02-01-2014, 11:14 PM   #6
s99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mycreativename View Post
Sounds like the one I just bought. I hope for your sake and checkbook that it isn't though.

Mine dropped a rocker arm, must have hit the valve spring with the rocker (cause the spring broke and shot through the valve cover), which allowed the valve to drop down and contact the piston, bending the valve. Long story short I'm pulling the entire engine to rebuild it.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f310/...ngine-2024377/

I would definitely start by pulling the valve cover on the driver side, see if everything is good in there, if so, go to the passenger side. Hopefully only a dropped rocker (which also sounds like this).
It definitely sounds like its coming from the piston near the alternator. The previous owner replaced both heads, do you think this may have to do with anything? also, what else do you think it could be besides a fallen rocker?

Thank you!
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Unread 02-02-2014, 12:25 AM   #7
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Those P codes are all associated with the power source feeding the coils their +12v

There are ground straps on each cylinder bank a firewall the tie the engine to the frame and attach on one of the read coil studs on each bank.

There is also a capacitor on each side too.

The ASD relay supplies power to the coil packs.
image-2038399512.jpg

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Unread 02-02-2014, 03:49 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s99
Do you know if all the vacuum hoses are located on the resonator and throttle area? They all seem to show no leaks, except the hose to the brake booster, but when I remove and block the brake booster hose the engine idles slightly different. No where near 700ish. I'll try next step and inspect the plugs asap.
CCV from each top to resonator, PCV hose to intake, intake to brake booster, thats it. Pull and inspect for cracks and breaks.
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95 ZJ Limited 5.2 Winter Project
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R.I.P. 2000 Grand Cherokee Limited, 4.7 V8, Quadradrive, Shale Green Metallic, Agate/Carbon interior, Well modded and highly missed :(

Buildthread http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f197/...grade-1813490/

MONEY WILL CONTINUE TO BE THROWN INTO THE RIG UNTIL CONDITION AND SATISFACTION IMPROVES!!!
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Unread 02-02-2014, 08:23 PM   #9
s99
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I did a full throttle body clean and the idle motor was filthy but no difference on the idle speed. I removed and plugged the brake booster, still no difference on the idle speed. I don't believe replacing the brake booster would do any difference. I still plan on replacing it.

Every vacuum hose is air tight. The coils looks new and the spark plugs look fine. The car doesn't misfire either.
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Unread 02-02-2014, 08:53 PM   #10
86cj74.2L
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s99
I did a full throttle body clean and the idle motor was filthy but no difference on the idle speed. I removed and plugged the brake booster, still no difference on the idle speed. I don't believe replacing the brake booster would do any difference. I still plan on replacing it. Every vacuum hose is air tight. The coils looks new and the spark plugs look fine. The car doesn't misfire either.
The 4.7 idles down to 450-500rpm on purpose.

As for the coils and plugs looking new........it has nothing to do with the PCM not sensing proper coil operation and coding for it. Those P codes you posted are all associated with how the coils get power. As well as how it sense the voltage.

The JPEG is the troubleshooting procedure those codes.

Look for grounds. Measure the coil supply voltage with engine running, check and make sure the grounds between the battery and engine are good as well as battery to frame and engine to frame. He had most all of those things apart to replace the head. On the coil connector there are two wires for each coil. One is hot from the ASD and should read battery voltage or system voltage. The other wire is a ground that comes from the PCM.

There is also a CAP/filter mounted above each cylinder head and a ground strap at the back of each head.
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Unread 02-06-2014, 02:24 PM   #11
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^^^Listen to this what this guy said!
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MONEY WILL CONTINUE TO BE THROWN INTO THE RIG UNTIL CONDITION AND SATISFACTION IMPROVES!!!
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Unread 02-06-2014, 03:00 PM   #12
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WHen you started the jeep it looks like the oil pressure did not build. Did the oil pressure build after warming up? Or did i just miss it?
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Unread 02-07-2014, 09:47 PM   #13
s99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 86cj74.2L View Post
The 4.7 idles down to 450-500rpm on purpose.

As for the coils and plugs looking new........it has nothing to do with the PCM not sensing proper coil operation and coding for it. Those P codes you posted are all associated with how the coils get power. As well as how it sense the voltage.

The JPEG is the troubleshooting procedure those codes.

Look for grounds. Measure the coil supply voltage with engine running, check and make sure the grounds between the battery and engine are good as well as battery to frame and engine to frame. He had most all of those things apart to replace the head. On the coil connector there are two wires for each coil. One is hot from the ASD and should read battery voltage or system voltage. The other wire is a ground that comes from the PCM.

There is also a CAP/filter mounted above each cylinder head and a ground strap at the back of each head.
Thank you so much and 86cj74.2L. I'll go over everything you guys mentioned tomorrow and test the voltage and see the results.
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Unread 02-07-2014, 09:53 PM   #14
s99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctchmeifucan View Post
WHen you started the jeep it looks like the oil pressure did not build. Did the oil pressure build after warming up? Or did i just miss it?
Yes, the oil pressure sits fine when the engine warms up.
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Unread 02-07-2014, 09:56 PM   #15
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Was I the only one that noticed missing bolt(or bolts?) on the alternator?
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