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Unread 09-16-2014, 10:01 AM   #1
FULLJEEP
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Wj IRO Coils or Wrong Shocks

How do you know if a Coil spring has to be changed.


I installed bilsteins in my 4" lifted WJ with IRO kit (used to have doescht tech), but I feel that the weight of the truck makes the suspension go all the way down very time I get to a bump or hole while drinving off road more that 40km/hr +/-, and suspension starts to compress completly.

Am I wrong or shocks should prevent the suspension to fully compress, or I am using the wrong shocks..

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Unread 09-16-2014, 10:24 AM   #2
alfaitalia
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Different shocks have firmer or softer damping but its the "hardness" of the springs or the bump stops thats stops the suspension from fully compressing.
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Unread 09-16-2014, 01:46 PM   #3
Tollmtn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FULLJEEP View Post
How do you know if a Coil spring has to be changed.


I installed bilsteins in my 4" lifted WJ with IRO kit (used to have doescht tech), but I feel that the weight of the truck makes the suspension go all the way down very time I get to a bump or hole while drinving off road more that 40km/hr +/-, and suspension starts to compress completly.

Am I wrong or shocks should prevent the suspension to fully compress, or I am using the wrong shocks..
If you want to drive fast over rough ground the only thing that will stop bottoming out is lots of up travel. If you lack up travel the only way to prevent bottoming would be to use springs so stiff they would ride like a lumber wagon, that would be self defeating.

So if you lack up travel soft shocks will let the bump stops hit at higher velocity than stiffer shocks. Like a fast punch V/S a push one will be felt more on the receiving end, in this case your butt.

IMO One good way for you to answer your own question would be if you ran the same trails at the same speed in the past with the Doetsch shocks and did not feel the suspension bottoming out. Then after you changed to new Bilsteins you started feeling the bottoming out. Why I say feeling it bottoming is because as in my punch V/S push analogy it likely was bottoming with the stiffer Doetsch shocks but with less velocity so it was not as noticeable.

I think at this time you should check and be sure your bump stops are what is bottoming out. If the Bilsteins are bottoming out they will be quickly destroyed. One the other hand the Doetsch shocks have urethane bump stops on the shocks that keep the shock from bottoming and harming the shock.

This is also some food for thought,.....In IROs advertising they rate the Bilstein 5100 shocks as the softest shock they sell. They say you may experience roll with them, possibly they should have mentioned insufficient dampening when driving fast on rough dirt. IRO also mentions travel range. Travel range is very, very important in off-road shocks. The below is from IRO's web site.

The Bilstein shocks come with a brushed aluminum finish that is both attractive and durable. They offer the best in terms of simulating factory ride quality. This means They are the softest shock in our lineup. With the soft valving also comes more body roll while cornering. These shocks are offered in many lengths to work with your application, however they typically have significantly shorter travel ranges than the IRO's or Doetsch shocks.
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Unread 09-16-2014, 02:13 PM   #4
skain8
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Soft springs (i.e. spring rate, which IRO are the softest) + soft valved shocks = cruise ship effect. You need to properly pair your springs with your shocks, people!
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Unread 09-16-2014, 04:42 PM   #5
FULLJEEP
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OK, seems like I F.... by changing to Bilsteins, I should have read the little prints before. Hey Kolak you should have warned me , any way my fault. going to check the D T, will put them again.

As for SKAIN8 advice, which is the best match, If I decide to change coils and shocks, I normally use my WJ as daily driver and off road truck, mostly sand dunes but gravel roads as well.
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Unread 09-16-2014, 06:40 PM   #6
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That's IRO fine print, not mine, nor is it my experience. Bilsteins can be very differently valved from one another. There was nothing to warn you about because the specific Bilsteins I sent you are not valved too softly. They also have the correct amount of travel for 4" of lift.

Send me a PM and we'll chat - there's something else going on if your Jeep is doing what you say. I'd like a hub/fender measurement to be sure you've got the stated lift height for starters.


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OK, seems like I F.... by changing to Bilsteins, I should have read the little prints before. Hey Kolak you should have warned me , any way my fault. going to check the D T, will put them again.

As for SKAIN8 advice, which is the best match, If I decide to change coils and shocks, I normally use my WJ as daily driver and off road truck, mostly sand dunes but gravel roads as well.
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Unread 09-16-2014, 06:48 PM   #7
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Also, you had mentioned in your first PM to me that one of the original front shocks pulled away from the upper mount when you had the swaybar disconnected. So your original shocks were too short.

What brand were the original shocks?
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Unread 09-16-2014, 07:58 PM   #8
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I dont like my 5100s too, way to mushy, might swap my Pro-Comp Mx-6 back
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Unread 09-16-2014, 08:05 PM   #9
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You're running OME medium duty springs correct? Those are _very_ soft springs.

There's no MX6 of the proper length for even 3" of lift, let alone higher.

And the quality of the MX6 shocks is not what it once was - too many frozen adjusters, leaks, and peeling paint/corrosion. To top it all off, they raised the prices. I stopped selling them years ago as a result of all the problems. Careful what you wish for...

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I dont like my 5100s too, way to mushy, might swap my Pro-Comp Mx-6 back
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Unread 09-16-2014, 09:34 PM   #10
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I am running 4 inch IRO fronts and 4.5 inch HD IRO rears now. Incredibly stiff rear springs, even with the protofab up back it wont compress!

Yup I had one adjuster start to freeze... but the tunability is so much better. I guess next change will be FOX
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Unread 09-17-2014, 09:05 AM   #11
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The IRO 3" springs and Bilsteins (shocks bought through Nick, springs direct from IRO) on my wife's WJ rides great. It feels like a sports car compared to the factory springs and whatever brand shocks that's on my '00. I feel that paired with the slightly softer IRO springs, the Bilsteins are a perfect match for a vehicle that sees 75% pavement.
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Unread 09-17-2014, 09:33 AM   #12
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IIRC, IRO's springs have different spring rates depending on spring height.
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Unread 09-17-2014, 11:04 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skain8 View Post
IIRC, IRO's springs have different spring rates depending on spring height.
True, but I believe their 3" coils have one of the lowest spring rates on the market, 185 lbs/inch front and 145 lbs/inch rear. Wasn't able to find anything on the 4/4.5" coils, but I'd be surprised to see them over 230 lbs/inch front and 200 lbs/inch rear.
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Unread 09-17-2014, 11:10 AM   #14
skain8
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True, but I believe their 3" coils have one of the lowest spring rates on the market, 185 lbs/inch front and 145 lbs/inch rear. Wasn't able to find anything on the 4/4.5" coils, but I'd be surprised to see them over 230 lbs/inch front and 200 lbs/inch rear.
You're probably right.

At one point I ran IRO 4" coils in the rear, but then switched over to Clayton's 4.5" springs. They complimented my front Tera springs nicely in terms of firmness. For lack of a better word, it felt unbalanced with the firm front and soft rear.
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Unread 09-17-2014, 02:03 PM   #15
Tollmtn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FULLJEEP View Post
Going to check the D T, will put them again.
FullJeep

A question was raised about the travel length of your DT shocks. If you look at the DT shocks they will have two numbers on them. One is the P/N the other is the body stamp. Sometimes IRO sends two different series shocks so it can be confusing. To make look up simple write down both number and post them. Then we could look up the series and the travel length or you could check that out yourself.

A few questions about your lift......Is your 4" IRO lift their "Critical Path" long arm lift? If not do you have fixed or adjustable LCAs in the front?

I had time so I looked up the numbers on the Bilstein shocks you posted. To me it looks like the 5100 P/N 24-187190 is a shock that is listed for the front of a TJ with 4.5" of lift. It has 9.9" of travel. The 5125 shock P/N 33-185552 has 10.17" travel the valve is 255-70.

Just for general info on spring rate and shock lengths. The IRO springs I have are the towing option so my rears are the same 4.5" 250# rate springs ultimo has. The front springs seem higher in rate than the rate IRO lists now, they hardly moved down when I added a winch. IRO sent two different series of shocks with my 4" long arm lift. My fronts had 11.425" of travel and my rears had 10.6" of travel.
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