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Unread 04-23-2013, 12:06 PM   #1
Eddie_Ro
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Wj Grand Cherokee WG Overland and Limited different axle ratio ?

Hello again,

I bough my Jeep used (WG=Wj with 2.7 Mercedes Engine, for Europe). From day one I have changed every bushing, control arm, coil springs, shocks, all new and OEM (or better) quality parts.

After not even 2 months everything failed. Bushings, control arms, steering gear, all gone. After 8 months I have replaced the front driveshaft as well, which faile in ..3 weeks, a brand new driveshaft.

I have managed to talk to a mechanic that seems to have been working on this car in 2011 and he told me that at the time he swapped the front axle with a WJ Limited axle. Is it possible that the two axle models have different gear ratios, thus breaking everything from the driveshaft to the bushings and control arms ?

How can I check if the two axles were compatible ? Are there any major differences with respect to the axle ratio bwtween a GC Overland 2004 and a GC limited made in xxx ?

I am tired of changing parts on this car, and after all the effort, time and tons of money put in it, it is nearly facing the srapyard ....

Now, one more try: I have found 2 axles from a WJ limited, Is there any difference to my stock axles? I am thinking of replacing them, both front and rear, hoping they will pull together at the same rationm thus eliminating the doubt i have right now. Will it affect my Quadra drive system? Will they have a major impact on any system?

Any ideas please ?

Lift: OME (ARB) +2 inch - coilsprings and shocks;
Tires: BFG 245/70/16
Trim: Overland 2004, Black Pearl Edition

Your help may revice a good old car, or can send it directly to the scrapyarsd, as I am done with the patience )


Thank you again


Last edited by Eddie_Ro; 04-23-2013 at 12:12 PM.. Reason: Completing the details
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Unread 04-23-2013, 02:08 PM   #2
4Tom
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The axles are the same in all the models.
So no difference between overland or limited.
There is different gear ratio between petrol and diesel.
Gear ratio should be stamped on your diff

FYI
Front is D30
Rear is D44HD or sometimes called D44a
WG and WJ is the market it was sold in
Its the same jeep although the diesels where never sold in US so technically only badged under WG

Your best bet if swapping axles is take them from WG with same engine as ratio sensors will all match.
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Unread 04-23-2013, 02:26 PM   #3
Eddie_Ro
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Hi Tom,

First of all thanks for the time and help. Here's the specification excerpt for my car:


DGES All 5-Speed Automatic Transmissions
DGJ 5-Speed Auto W5A580 Transmission
DHAS Lock-Up Torque Converter
DHQP Quadra-Trac II-On Demand 4WD System
DJJS Dana 30/186MM Front Axle
DMDP 3.55 Rear Axle Ratio
DRKS Dana 44/226MM Rear Axle
DSBP Vari-Lok Progressive Front Axle
DSCP Vari-Lok Progressive Rear Axle
ENF 2.7L I5 20V T/Diesel DI Engine

I know teh axles are the same but I am minly concerned about the diffs, since there were some models without VariLocks, and without VL my Quadra Drive is impaired.
The thing is that I would like to replace both axles to make sure I get the same ratio, and also to make sure that I won't stop Quadra Drive function. How can I check on 2 scrapped axles if they have Vari Locks ? They came from a WG Limited, 2.7 Diesel

thanks again,
Eddie
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Unread 04-23-2013, 02:47 PM   #4
4Tom
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The WG 3.1TD axles ratio are 3.90
So you can rule those out.

You will need to keep the same ratio as your speed sensors are in your transmission and you get fault codes on the 2.7CRD with different ratio.

Most of the limited have open diffs
But the ones with quadra drive have a tag on diff with information on friction modifer but the tag can go missing.

If you can see the Jeep they are coming off it will have quadra drive on back door and at gear shift.

The best way to check is pop diff covers
as the carrier is different between the two

Note also that the shafts on QD axles are shorter than open axles

Carrier on left is open, carrier on right is vari loc (quadra drive)

images.jpeg
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Unread 04-23-2013, 03:08 PM   #5
Eddie_Ro
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Finger crossed :))

Thanks Tom,

I will ask the owner to send me some photos tomorrow, and I really hope I will be able to read the Quadra Drive sticker close to to the shifter.

As for the ratio, my guess is things should be fine as long as both diffs (front/back) are the same, 3.55 or 3.7 regardless on what I had on the car from the factory.....

My biggest doubt right now is that I have a different ratio on front diff than the rear, and that's the only thankg that could explain a broken drive shaft in 3 weeks and all the control arms' bushings (original Mopar) in 2 months.

Finger crossed, I will get you posted as soon as I get some news.

Thanks again,

Eddie
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Unread 04-24-2013, 01:12 AM   #6
alfaitalia
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I don't think the car would move with different ratios front and rear. The tc would be locked solid due to the difs different speeds and The loads would be huge. If it did move then one of the dIfs would be destroyed or a drive shaft would snap almost instantly. Imo the ratios will be the same. Also I don't see how the ratios would not affect all the bushes. Sounds like incorrect fitting to me. Was every thing only tightened when the car was back on the floor.....if not bushes will not last any time.

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Unread 04-24-2013, 01:31 PM   #7
Mike2909
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Stating the obvious there is something seriously wrong. What was the reason for replacing all the parts in the first place?
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Unread 04-24-2013, 02:21 PM   #8
swoermck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie_Ro View Post
As for the ratio, my guess is things should be fine as long as both diffs (front/back) are the same, 3.55 or 3.7 regardless on what I had on the car from the factory.....
just was discussing this issue with a colleague in Germany with a 2.7 diesel engine (I have a 4.7 V8 gas engine):

re-gearing is no issue for gas engines - and she would also like to re-gear her diesel, but so far she didn't figure out a way to re-program the TCM. So according to hear, re-progamming the TCM is no issue for a gas engine, but not so easy (if possible at all) for a diesel engine.

I don't know what the issue with re-programming the TCM is (for the diesel engine), but assuming this information is correct, there's no way for you to change to a different gear ratio

I couldn't be more specific on the TCM programming, maybe somebody from the forum could shade some light on it?
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Unread 04-26-2013, 04:11 AM   #9
Eddie_Ro
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@ alfaitalia: I have been trying to figure out what made all the parts get distroyed so fast, but so far no luck on that. All the bushings and control arm were tighten on level ground, car sitting on its wheels. After every tie rod end change I have performed a geometry check/adjustment.

I have no idea what caused the premature wear on all the elements, but after replacing the front driveshft's end (the one connecting to the TC), and having it destroyed in 3 weeks' time, I decided there's no point in trying to change any parts unless I figure out what's causing the issue in the first place.

So far the only modifications on the car are:
- 2" lift with OME coilsprings, along with new OME Nitrochargers;
- Rear Addco antisway bar;
- Front JKS quicker disconnects;
- BFG AT 245/70/16;
- ET +10 Rims;

The lifetime of the parts was:

- 4 months the rear lower control arms: MOPAR;
- 2 months front lower control arms- Crown;
- 2 months front lower control arms- Mopar;
- 8 months ball joints;
- 4 months the tie rod ends - Rugged Ridge;
- 3 weeks front driveshaft -Crown;

I know it for a fact that 2 years ago, following some weird noises, the ex-owner had the front axle changed with a WG 2.7 Limited axle. My only concern is if there were some differences between the diff ratios, one axle would fight against the other and would snap the driveshafts and control arm bushings, since one axle would be slower than the other.

I am not a mechanic, and so far it seems that no one found the issue on this car in Romania. Following the premature wear, Jeep would blame the car and not their parts, therefore nothing was changed under warranty even if they failed in 2 months, although the documents state 2 years warranty on control arms.

@swoermck would changing the ratio from 3.55 (Overland factory ratio) to 3.73 require a TCM re-mapping?

Does anyone know what was the standard diff ratio for a 2.7 WG Limited? I don't have acces to the axles I want to change and the one scraping the car doesn't have the time to investigate. The car is about 350 KM from my location. Is tehre any homework I can do before spending the time to go there and read the axles ?

@Mike2909 All the bushings were worn out when I got the car, so I decided to go ahead, get the car and change everything. It was a nice Overland, 2004, fully equipped and I junmped on what I thought it would be a good opportunity. Prior to buying it I had a Mercedes mechanic check it, and except for some bushings that needed being replaced, the mechanic told me it was a good car.

Has anyone experienced a similar situation with the entire car crumbling to pieces in 3 months ? Is it a standard for the Wg or do I have the worst lemon?

Thanks for your time,

Eddie

Last edited by Eddie_Ro; 04-26-2013 at 04:33 AM.. Reason: spelling errors/multiple questions answered
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Unread 04-26-2013, 06:44 AM   #10
alfaitalia
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"Does anyone know what was the standard diff ratio for a 2.7 WG Limited? I don't have acces to the axles I want to change and the one scraping the car doesn't have the time to investigate. The car is about 350 KM from my location. Is tehre any homework I can do before spending the time to go there and read the axles ?"



Mine are 3.55 and that is what it says on my build sheet from new.....but I dont know if they all are to be honest! Request your build sheet from Jeep USA and they will email it to your within 24 hrs....then you will know for sure.
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Unread 04-26-2013, 08:37 AM   #11
Eddie_Ro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfaitalia
"Does anyone know what was the standard diff ratio for a 2.7 WG Limited? I don't have acces to the axles I want to change and the one scraping the car doesn't have the time to investigate. The car is about 350 KM from my location. Is tehre any homework I can do before spending the time to go there and read the axles ?"

Mine are 3.55 and that is what it says on my build sheet from new.....but I dont know if they all are to be honest! Request your build sheet from Jeep USA and they will email it to your within 24 hrs....then you will know for sure.
I have already done that and i have also posted anove an excerpt of my build sheet which says 3.55. If everything is ok, a donor Limited should be a good fit for an Iverland. Thanks for the information, I hope that the axle swap will solvey main issue
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Unread 04-26-2013, 08:39 AM   #12
Eddie_Ro
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Thanks everyone for the information
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Unread 04-26-2013, 08:49 AM   #13
Red350ss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie_Ro View Post
@ alfaitalia: I have been trying to figure out what made all the parts get distroyed so fast, but so far no luck on that. All the bushings and control arm were tighten on level ground, car sitting on its wheels. After every tie rod end change I have performed a geometry check/adjustment.

I have no idea what caused the premature wear on all the elements, but after replacing the front driveshft's end (the one connecting to the TC), and having it destroyed in 3 weeks' time, I decided there's no point in trying to change any parts unless I figure out what's causing the issue in the first place.

So far the only modifications on the car are:
- 2" lift with OME coilsprings, along with new OME Nitrochargers;
- Rear Addco antisway bar;
- Front JKS quicker disconnects;
- BFG AT 245/70/16;
- ET +10 Rims;

The lifetime of the parts was:

- 4 months the rear lower control arms: MOPAR;
- 2 months front lower control arms- Crown;
- 2 months front lower control arms- Mopar;
- 8 months ball joints;
- 4 months the tie rod ends - Rugged Ridge;
- 3 weeks front driveshaft -Crown;

I know it for a fact that 2 years ago, following some weird noises, the ex-owner had the front axle changed with a WG 2.7 Limited axle. My only concern is if there were some differences between the diff ratios, one axle would fight against the other and would snap the driveshafts and control arm bushings, since one axle would be slower than the other.

I am not a mechanic, and so far it seems that no one found the issue on this car in Romania. Following the premature wear, Jeep would blame the car and not their parts, therefore nothing was changed under warranty even if they failed in 2 months, although the documents state 2 years warranty on control arms.

@swoermck would changing the ratio from 3.55 (Overland factory ratio) to 3.73 require a TCM re-mapping?

Does anyone know what was the standard diff ratio for a 2.7 WG Limited? I don't have acces to the axles I want to change and the one scraping the car doesn't have the time to investigate. The car is about 350 KM from my location. Is tehre any homework I can do before spending the time to go there and read the axles ?

@Mike2909 All the bushings were worn out when I got the car, so I decided to go ahead, get the car and change everything. It was a nice Overland, 2004, fully equipped and I junmped on what I thought it would be a good opportunity. Prior to buying it I had a Mercedes mechanic check it, and except for some bushings that needed being replaced, the mechanic told me it was a good car.

Has anyone experienced a similar situation with the entire car crumbling to pieces in 3 months ? Is it a standard for the Wg or do I have the worst lemon?

Thanks for your time,

Eddie
To confirm your gear ratios, simple way is to pull both diff covers and count teeth on the ring and pinion in both, then divide it out...should be the same ratio in each. I have never heard of mixmatched ratios tearing up items such as the control arm bushings and balljoints, usually the transfer case or driveshaft blows up well before anything else..
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Unread 04-26-2013, 08:59 AM   #14
Eddie_Ro
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It's not been my car from day one therefore I have no idea what's been done or changed to it. The mismatched diff ratio came as an idea following the fact that 2 yars ago someone changed the front axle and the car blows the driveshafts. I don't know for sure if that's the case or not.

Any other suggestion as to what can cause this behaviour? Can the parts be so weak that they break so son? Any input can save me headaches and money.

Thanks for your suggestions and time
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Unread 04-26-2013, 09:09 AM   #15
Eddie_Ro
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In case front and rear diffs have different ratios, will the central diff level the differences or it will behave as a locked diff and brake the transfer case?
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