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Unread 01-22-2014, 04:20 PM   #16
jclaudii
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Why not just buy a normal old d30? Why get the one with limited slip and all? It does not matter what tcase you have you can run either axle you want.

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Unread 01-22-2014, 07:17 PM   #17
brianestep
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jclaudii View Post
Why not just buy a normal old d30? Why get the one with limited slip and all? It does not matter what tcase you have you can run either axle you want.
Ummmm, because I want limited slip?!?!?! I actually have the 242. I know i can run either, that's why I want the Vari-Lock. I have to replace my axle anyway, and the price difference is marginal, if existent at all. I may as well upgrade slightly, right? I also am looking for a ujoint yoke to avoid the hassle of screwing up the bearing preload if swapping from the flange to yoke, and it seems as though Vari-lok axles have the yoke more often that non-Vari-lock, in my searches.
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Unread 01-22-2014, 07:43 PM   #18
gold01wj
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With a torque wrench it's not to hard to swap yokes. Just re torque the pinion bolt to 50ftlbs I saw that method on here. I did it on mine and I've had absolutely no problems for 15000 miles. It's been no problem at all.
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Unread 01-22-2014, 08:48 PM   #19
brianestep
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Originally Posted by gold01wj View Post
With a torque wrench it's not to hard to swap yokes. Just re torque the pinion bolt to 50ftlbs I saw that method on here. I did it on mine and I've had absolutely no problems for 15000 miles. It's been no problem at all.
I could totally be wrong on this, but I'm fairly sure the WJ D30s use a collapsible spacer (crush sleeve) to pre-load the bearings. While I think I understand the right way (using a in-lb torque wrench to find the amount of force required to spin the pinion) and the easy way (mark the nut and re-tighten to the mark) and the even easier (generic torque setting), I don't think any of them get you to 50lbs. That's half of a lug-nut tight. I'd bet closer to 150ft-lbs, but even that's guessing. I'd rather not worry about it. Either way, haha you guys are distracting from my post about the Vari-Lock axles. Stop it!
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Unread 01-23-2014, 09:07 AM   #20
gold01wj
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Sorry I was just tryn to help you broaden your axle search. 150lbs and you'll crush the sleeve too far and screw the mesh up. 50 lbs gets you tight enough to hold the mesh but not tight enough to crush the sleeve any further. My dad is an ase master diesel tech and I've seen him do a similar procedure to what I mentioned several times before. If you question me search the forums on yoke swaps. There's lots of to tackle the beast. As I said I was tryn to help you simply broaden your search for an axle. most all early varilocs have cvs up front. My 2000 did.
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Unread 01-23-2014, 09:20 AM   #21
brianestep
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Originally Posted by gold01wj View Post
Sorry I was just tryn to help you broaden your axle search. 150lbs and you'll crush the sleeve too far and screw the mesh up. 50 lbs gets you tight enough to hold the mesh but not tight enough to crush the sleeve any further. My dad is an ase master diesel tech and I've seen him do a similar procedure to what I mentioned several times before. If you question me search the forums on yoke swaps. There's lots of to tackle the beast. As I said I was tryn to help you simply broaden your search for an axle. most all early varilocs have cvs up front. My 2000 did.
Don't be sorry, friend, I like input. That's the problem, there are so many defined ways to swap yokes, the amount of torque needed to preload bearings, etc. that I'd rather not deal with it. I've seen people that used an impact at 200ft lbs and been fine. I think I crushed my last one at about 120. If the bearing are new vs used it's likely different. I am basing my yoke search more on year than vari-lok or not. I just find more v8s with ujoint, and they most often have var-lock as well. It is just a coincidence or somewhat likely pattern, not a rule, as the driveshaft, axle, engine combinations are retarded.

And that is basically my original question:

Does it even make sense for me to search for a used vari-lock, if in 20,000 miles it stops functioning? Since there's no way to rebuild one... If a worn vari-lock is basically a open diff, then that's fine. If it's non-functional, then I will broaden search. I need a new axle either way. I'm not doing it solely to swap a vari-lock into a non.
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Unread 01-23-2014, 09:36 AM   #22
gold01wj
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Yes when they wear out they just don't function as a limited slip but they are still completely driveable . I've got 140000 on mine with 32s they still work fine.
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Unread 01-23-2014, 10:12 AM   #23
brianestep
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Originally Posted by gold01wj View Post
Yes when they wear out they just don't function as a limited slip but they are still completely driveable . I've got 140000 on mine with 32s they still work fine.
That's what I wanted to know!! Thank you friend. Is there a way to inspect them/ test them if the diff. fluid is drained?
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Unread 01-23-2014, 11:20 AM   #24
jclaudii
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Just going a bit further here. You said
Quote:
And also, when a Vari-Lock diff. wears out, does it function similarly to an open diff, where as it can still be used and "locked" via my tcase, but will not engage tire slippage from wheel-to-wheel across the axle?
back at post 15. The diff will never work or act like a locking differential, meaning that if it is worn out 2x4 or 4x4 will not make it "lock", it will be just like a open diff. Now when it's operational, it will work when engaged in 2x4 or 4x4 when slippage occurs enough to cause pressure to build and squeeze the clutch packs. But it will still slip, and can slip, if it's worn in 2x4 or 4x4 because of various issues (age, wrong fluid, maint history, clutches worn, etc).

So brings me back to why a QD? A regular dana 30, and a used lunchbox locker from a TJ would be more serviceable in the future and may even be cheaper than that high mileage qd axle. When I say serviceable, I did not see a rebuild kit for the front differential clutch/pump assembly. Also, since the shafts are different sizes, you can not simply put a tj locker in or even a arb or Eaton.

Now if your fixed on a qd axle, and if you are still in the westminster area, I used car-part.com to locate a 45k qd axle for $450 bucks and is located in denver (like 10 miles away). If you wanted a regular axle, the have them too, but are way to high in my opinion. Also, check out CL for someone parting one out.


And lastly, take all advice here with a grain of salt and do your research. gold01wj is simply wrong that 50 ft-lbs will be enough to set your pinion nut back on. Check out this excerpt
Quote:
11. Using a tool to hold the yoke, torque pinion nut to 255 ft-lbs. Do not simply hammer the nut on with an impact wrench, as the torque on the nut has a direct effect on pinion-bearing preload. Then
Figure 26 – Measuring pinion-bearing preload

12. Measure pinion-bearing preload by using an inch-pound torque wrench. You must measure the torque it takes to rotate the pinion by the nut while it is in motion. If you simply measure the torque it takes to start the pinion rotating you will get an artificially high reading. This is why a dial-indicating torque wrench is best as you can start the pinion rotating, then read the indication from the dial while you continue to rotate the pinion. Preload should be 20-40 in-lbs for new bearings, and 10-20 in-lbs for used (i.e. set-up) bearings.
Courtesy from a more hardcore forum and user who has changed several. http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Gear_Setup/ The hard part for me is I don't want to buy a inch/lb torque wrench and I can't find one to borrow. I try and nab on on ebay from time to time, but they go in the 60-100 buck range. The click style are 10 bucks all day, but you need one of the dial style.

I think you'll get lucky and be easily able to find a axle with the yoke on it you already want. Try and find one with everything on it, including calipers. You can part your old axle out by selling the calipers and knuckles on here. This way you don't have to mess with it.
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Unread 01-23-2014, 11:38 AM   #25
pinky2252s
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jclaudii View Post


And lastly, take all advice here with a grain of salt and do your research. gold01wj is simply wrong that 50 ft-lbs will be enough to set your pinion nut back on. Check out this excerpt Courtesy from a more hardcore forum and user who has changed several. http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Gear_Setup/ The hard part for me is I don't want to buy a inch/lb torque wrench and I can't find one to borrow. I try and nab on on ebay from time to time, but they go in the 60-100 buck range. The click style are 10 bucks all day, but you need one of the dial style.
That is the only way to correctly do it. Do not try to just torque it on there with an impact.
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Unread 01-23-2014, 12:20 PM   #26
brianestep
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jclaudii View Post
Just going a bit further here. You said back at post 15. The diff will never work or act like a locking differential, meaning that if it is worn out 2x4 or 4x4 will not make it "lock", it will be just like a open diff. Now when it's operational, it will work when engaged in 2x4 or 4x4 when slippage occurs enough to cause pressure to build and squeeze the clutch packs. But it will still slip, and can slip, if it's worn in 2x4 or 4x4 because of various issues (age, wrong fluid, maint history, clutches worn, etc).
Yeaaa, that's why I put locked in "" "". The clutch packs still engage themselves, even when no torque is being applied to that axle? I was under the impression that in 2wd, I would see no benefit at all... Which makes me wonder why I even cared to begin with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jclaudii View Post
So brings me back to why a QD? A regular dana 30, and a used lunchbox locker from a TJ would be more serviceable in the future and may even be cheaper than that high mileage qd axle. When I say serviceable, I did not see a rebuild kit for the front differential clutch/pump assembly. Also, since the shafts are different sizes, you can not simply put a tj locker in or even a arb or Eaton.
No, there is no rebuild kit that I'm aware of. I was skeptical of putting in a locker in the 30, but I guess it's not out of the question. I was mainly trying to find a minor upgrade in axle, the right yoke, and hopefully Akebonos to go with it. Kind of a three-birds-one-stone kinda thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jclaudii View Post
Now if your fixed on a qd axle, and if you are still in the westminster area, I used car-part.com to locate a 45k qd axle for $450 bucks and is located in denver (like 10 miles away). If you wanted a regular axle, the have them too, but are way to high in my opinion. Also, check out CL for someone parting one out.
That's my problem. Even regular d30s are overpriced, even though there's like 500 around here. I've called that place a few times. One guy told me it was 145k not 45k, another said it was a flange not yoke. I need to go look at it haha.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jclaudii View Post
And lastly, take all advice here with a grain of salt and do your research. gold01wj is simply wrong that 50 ft-lbs will be enough to set your pinion nut back on. Check out this excerpt Courtesy from a more hardcore forum and user who has changed several. http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Gear_Setup/ The hard part for me is I don't want to buy a inch/lb torque wrench and I can't find one to borrow. I try and nab on on ebay from time to time, but they go in the 60-100 buck range. The click style are 10 bucks all day, but you need one of the dial style.
Been researching, just haven't found the right answers!! That's how I know the yokes suck.
Dial-type in-lbs. can be found at a few parts stores. I got one at AutoZone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jclaudii View Post
I think you'll get lucky and be easily able to find a axle with the yoke on it you already want. Try and find one with everything on it, including calipers. You can part your old axle out by selling the calipers and knuckles on here. This way you don't have to mess with it.
Awesome info. That is what I was asking. As I said, the yoke, caliper, axle combination I want typically is found on late model V8s, which I see more of. I might have to just suck it up and settle for two out of three. I'd probably just buy new calipers anyway, as alot of junkyards don't include them.
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Unread 01-23-2014, 01:26 PM   #27
jclaudii
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I needed the same parts you did, lucked out and the grand cherokee I bought for an engine had the correct ratio axles I needed to do a swap. Check out CL a bit more, http://denver.craigslist.org/pts/4236856900.html for example. Keep an eye out at scrap yards, not auto junk yards but the places people take their aluminum cans and scrap iron. I dumped a load of cans off a few weeks ago and someone pulled a nice looking wj across the scales. had an engine fire. I came back the next day and asked if I could give them 20 bucks and pull crap form the interior before it was crushed. I'm sure it went to someones pocket isntead of the company, but worked for me. I bet Coffee would have worked as well as those guys are doing it in freezing conditions!

Also, I was quoted about 50-60 bucks for someone to swap yokes out if I did not want to mess with it. Now that is with the donor axle brought to them and the parts (yoke, seal, crush sleeve and nut). Not bad since it's cheaper than I could get my torque wrench for and if I have any issues when it is put in, I can take it back to them.
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Unread 01-23-2014, 02:01 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jclaudii View Post
I needed the same parts you did, lucked out and the grand cherokee I bought for an engine had the correct ratio axles I needed to do a swap. Check out CL a bit more, http://denver.craigslist.org/pts/4236856900.html for example. Keep an eye out at scrap yards, not auto junk yards but the places people take their aluminum cans and scrap iron. I dumped a load of cans off a few weeks ago and someone pulled a nice looking wj across the scales. had an engine fire. I came back the next day and asked if I could give them 20 bucks and pull crap form the interior before it was crushed. I'm sure it went to someones pocket isntead of the company, but worked for me. I bet Coffee would have worked as well as those guys are doing it in freezing conditions!

Also, I was quoted about 50-60 bucks for someone to swap yokes out if I did not want to mess with it. Now that is with the donor axle brought to them and the parts (yoke, seal, crush sleeve and nut). Not bad since it's cheaper than I could get my torque wrench for and if I have any issues when it is put in, I can take it back to them.
I definitely appreciate the advice. It is not for lack of looking. I've been looking off and on for two years. I have that, and about 30 other CL pages bookmarked. I just have had either time, space, or money, but never all three at the same time. That's what my questions were for. I've found plenty of open diffs, and a bunch with way less miles. I was wondering if the upgrade was worth the risk/reward or not. Looks like maybe not...
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Unread 01-23-2014, 03:14 PM   #29
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And lastly, take all advice here with a grain of salt and do your research. gold01wj is simply wrong that 50 ft-lbs will be enough to set your pinion nut back on. Check out this excerpt Courtesy from a more hardcore forum and user who has changed several. http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Gear_Setup/ The hard part for me is I don't want to buy a inch/lb torque wrench and I can't find one to borrow. I try and nab on on ebay from time to time, but they go in the 60-100 buck range. The click style are 10 bucks all day, but you need one of the dial style.

Let me clarify. I guess i should have put a disclaimer in my original post my apologies. I read the method i described in the tj section of the forum. With that being said, I should have said it in a different way. Obviously the dial tq wrench is the best method I do not pretend to dismiss this. For some people the resources for this method aren't available or for other reasons they choose not to do it this way.The method I used did not compress a fresh crush sleeve. I've seen plenty of people change pinion seals for example without going through the process of crushing a new sleeve/ remeshing gears. The method I used has worked fine in my jeep with absolutely no noise or any other issues for a good while. 50ftlbs does work in the scenario I have described. It may not be the "proper way" of doing things but it has worked just fine for me. Don't call me a liar if you haven't ridden in my jeep. I meen no disrespect to anybody thru this post. Good luck to you all in your jeepimg endeavors!
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Unread 01-29-2014, 12:08 PM   #30
jclaudii
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Gold01WJ, I do not mean disrespect, but even on a TJ, XJ, or whatever a Dana30 is a dana30. The pinion nut will need more than 50ft-lb, even if re-using the original crush sleeve. I have gone over several methods, and may even try your way. But I will basically torque the nut back down very close to what it was originally. I mean,we torque our lug nuts down to 75ft lbs, 50ft lbs for a drive line part. I do have to ask if perhaps you seen 20-40 inch lbs and some have been as high as 50 in-lbs and thought it was foot lbs?

I just pulled up a 2003 TJ fsm, and it shows the pinion nut for a dana 30 is 160-500 ft-lbs and to rely on the pinion bearing preload torque settings. Which is in in-lbs and is in the 10-20 for original bearings and 15-30 for new bearings. This is tested with no axle shafts in place. If axle shafts, hubs, brakes, etc are left on, the pre-load setting with be quite a bit higher because of the extra mass to spin.

Now if you used lock-tite which will keep it on that works too, now you may be lucky and that it's still working after 45k, but technically it should have some consequences.
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