cheap and easy tow hooks for WJ (writeup) - Page 2 - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep Grand Cherokee & Commander Forums > WJ Grand Cherokee Forum > cheap and easy tow hooks for WJ (writeup)

Introducing MONSTALINER™ UV Permanent DIY Roll On Bed LineGrizzly Lockers available at Rockridge4wd.comThe ULTIMATE "Selectable" Locker System! Brough

Reply
Unread 06-12-2012, 12:51 PM   #16
mycreativename
Registered User
1999 WJ 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Amherst, NY
Posts: 2,098
And just to clarify, I never claimed that they wouldn't. I'm a big proponent of homebrew solutions to more expensive problems. I have an issue with the way you are claiming that they are stronger than the professional ones because the hooks themselves are rated higher.

I actually have no doubt in my mind that they work just fine for a mild rig, for a long time I ran a similar solution on the front of my WJ, they worked fine for the few times I used them.

__________________
99' WJ, 2.5" Rusty's, Bilstein 5100's, JKS TrackBar, Moog SuperTrailBoss
"With enough fabbing, time & $, it's certainly possible.
That being said, it's like boinkin' your sister...just because you can, doesn't mean you should." - Double E
mycreativename is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-12-2012, 01:11 PM   #17
Buck89
Registered User
2004 WJ 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by WJlover View Post
considering their mounted, almost the same minus 1 bolt, and add 1 weaker, thinner plate, id say their either both just as strong, or the mopar one is weaker.

since their mounted the SAME material, and the mopar one has a lower capacity, im going with my cheaper version. too easy to add a little extra security to my version if you are that concerned.
It's not just a matter of the number of bolts, the factorY hooks may only have "1" more bolt, but they are also distributing the force of the pull over a much greater area than the hooks you are using. I agree with what most of the others have said regarding your method. I'm not trying to bash on you, just saying I would not do this nor recomend it. Also, thats great that it you saved money and that you said it worked for you in a recovery. Keep in mind that this was one situation that they worked, the forces involved in recovery situations can vary greatly and just because it worked on your one pull, I don't think that you can say that they are tested and will work fine. Just my own opinion though.
Buck89 is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-12-2012, 01:11 PM   #18
WJlover
Senior Member
1999 WJ 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: portsmouth, nh
Posts: 657
Quote:
Originally Posted by mycreativename View Post
And just to clarify, I never claimed that they wouldn't. I'm a big proponent of homebrew solutions to more expensive problems. I have an issue with the way you are claiming that they are stronger than the professional ones because the hooks themselves are rated higher.

I actually have no doubt in my mind that they work just fine for a mild rig, for a long time I ran a similar solution on the front of my WJ, they worked fine for the few times I used them.
i never originally said this mnethod is stronger. i still havent.
the HOOKS themselves, are stronger yes.
the mounting solution is the issue at hand. which, i see nothing wrong with.

just for the record, my response wasnt aimed at you.
WJlover is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-12-2012, 01:20 PM   #19
WJlover
Senior Member
1999 WJ 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: portsmouth, nh
Posts: 657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck89 View Post
It's not just a matter of the number of bolts, the factorY hooks may only have "1" more bolt, but they are also distributing the force of the pull over a much greater area than the hooks you are using. I agree with what most of the others have said regarding your method. I'm not trying to bash on you, just saying I would not do this nor recomend it. Also, thats great that it you saved money and that you said it worked for you in a recovery. Keep in mind that this was one situation that they worked, the forces involved in recovery situations can vary greatly and just because it worked on your one pull, I don't think that you can say that they are tested and will work fine. Just my own opinion though.
that force being distributed can easily be begated by the leverage it has on the mopar hooks. the base of it is raised off the frame. that creates leverage which allows the hook to bend. personally, i dont like that, not one bit. and ive heard of plenty of them bending.
my method was tested (though not on purpose) with a variety of different pulls. i had to be pulled at first, uphill, over a field of rocks and ruts and holes.
next i was pulled up a slight muddy incline, andaround a slight corner.
after that i had to be pulled to the side, on slightly soft ground. which my front hooks were used for.
and then pulled through a VERY soft gooey mud puddle that was shaped like a crater. and then proceeded to be pulled through more goo, more rocks, uphill.
this is a lot of pulling, a lot of HARD pulling, a large variety of ways, and this method passed the unintentional test.
because they sit flat on the frame, i believe they defeat alot of the leverage the mopar ones would see. imagine pulling mopar ones to the side? disaster waiting to happen.

now, this is not me trying to claim that this method is stronger. more reliable? maybe. more versatile? definitely. cheaper? oh hell ya
WJlover is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-12-2012, 01:48 PM   #20
PhantomWJ
Registered User
2003 WJ 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: IE
Posts: 3,277
DUDE, that's a good solution to your problem. You lacked recovery points and you made some, cool.

They will function as good as any other hook until they dont, and when that happens if it happens then you build something better.
PhantomWJ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-12-2012, 05:32 PM   #21
Jeepoman
Registered User
2002 WJ 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: , New Jersey
Posts: 23
WJlover, your set-up is fine, the force needed to shear the metal of the frame is greater than the rating of the hooks, to shear metal of that thickness horizontally requires a lot of power, factory set-ups are not necessarily the best or strongest, a lot of consideration goes to cost and ease of assembly, not saying that the Jeep factory set-up is not up to par for I've never seen one!!!.....by using the flat stock you created quite a strong sandwich, my 5 cents worth of advice is the bolts MUST stay tight always, any looseness WILL elongate the holes and cause metal fatigue, your best bet is when you get a chance use fine threaded bolts with deformed grade 8 metal lock nuts (no nylon), ideally tack the nuts to the flat stock and torque bolts to 80-100 lbs....Good Luck.

PS: 30+ yrs. as metal fabricator, blacksmith, certified welder.
Jeepoman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-12-2012, 06:01 PM   #22
kc2mrg
Web Wheeler
 
kc2mrg's Avatar
2004 WJ 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ravenwood, West Virginia
Posts: 1,083
well, im in the process of doing the same thing, and actually, the hooks dont sit perfectly flat on the frame rail there is the pinch between the bumper and frame rail, but i was looking at mine closely and i drilled my holes about exactly where you did and yes, aaron, i can see where you say it can cause metal fatigue, but im going to be putting a larger plate in there than WJlover did, im going with 1/4" flat steel, possibly angle or c-channel inside the frame rail that is going to be as wide as i can get into the frame channel so if i go to get pulled there where be more support holding the hook in there, i dont see why it would be an issue if the factory hooks are mounted in the same method, through the same frame into a piece of steel plate, now yes, the holes are off-set in the frame vs the hooks i got are in-line, and maybe that makes them a little stronger than what im installing, because the horizontal force is on both sides of the frame and not just down the center but thats why im making my steel plate big enough that it fits against the frame/bumper joining point so if for some reason they want to start to move forward and and elongate the holes, the 1/4" steel plate will stop it because its up against the bumper

and heres an interesting question, now im not sure how the westin brush guard mounts to a wj, but doesnt it just have 2 mounting points on each side? and ive heard plenty of people on here who have made hooks onto them and pulled with them, also http://www.rustysoffroad.com/rustys-...ok-kit-wj.html those are the tow hook kit for the wj from rustys, i might be wrong but it appears that it only bolts into 2 spots on the frame also, then the piece of 1/4" drops down and you mount your hook
__________________
2004 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.0
Rusty's 2.5" coil/shock lift
265/70/16 (~31") General Grabber AT2's
Superchips 3875 Flashpaq


West Virginia Jeep Club member
JEEPINWV.COM
kc2mrg is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-12-2012, 06:07 PM   #23
PhantomWJ
Registered User
2003 WJ 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: IE
Posts: 3,277
the WARN has 2 mounting holes too
PhantomWJ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-12-2012, 07:01 PM   #24
kc2mrg
Web Wheeler
 
kc2mrg's Avatar
2004 WJ 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ravenwood, West Virginia
Posts: 1,083
edit: i researched the rustys hooks, and they actually have 3 bolts that mount them, so i apologize for that
__________________
2004 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.0
Rusty's 2.5" coil/shock lift
265/70/16 (~31") General Grabber AT2's
Superchips 3875 Flashpaq


West Virginia Jeep Club member
JEEPINWV.COM
kc2mrg is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-12-2012, 07:10 PM   #25
WJlover
Senior Member
1999 WJ 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: portsmouth, nh
Posts: 657
as for the hook not sitting perfectly flat (i forgot to mention this), to mount it there you do need to tighten it down to crush that section of the pinch. but i see no issue with that really.

and im glad someone with some real metal working experience chimed in. thank you jeepoman.
and now my mind is even more set at ease than it originally was.

and yes thicker steel would be better but i just couldnt afford it at the time. at the end of this little build i literally was all out of cash. i had to count quarters and a few bills to afford the grade 8 hardware.
WJlover is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-12-2012, 07:23 PM   #26
kc2mrg
Web Wheeler
 
kc2mrg's Avatar
2004 WJ 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ravenwood, West Virginia
Posts: 1,083
haha, yea i know what you mean there, but im getting it free, all i have invested in it is the hooks ($6ea.) and some red paint, the hooks came with bolts and i had the tools already to mount them, im thinking about either pounding it flat or filing it flat, and also, after i drilled the holes, i filed them smooth and put some touch-up paint on the bare metal so it wont start rusting, or well, rusting as quickly lol
__________________
2004 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.0
Rusty's 2.5" coil/shock lift
265/70/16 (~31") General Grabber AT2's
Superchips 3875 Flashpaq


West Virginia Jeep Club member
JEEPINWV.COM
kc2mrg is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-12-2012, 07:30 PM   #27
Jeepoman
Registered User
2002 WJ 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: , New Jersey
Posts: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by kc2mrg View Post
well, im in the process of doing the same thing, and actually, the hooks dont sit perfectly flat on the frame rail there is the pinch between the bumper and frame rail, but i was looking at mine closely and i drilled my holes about exactly where you did and yes, aaron, i can see where you say it can cause metal fatigue, but im going to be putting a larger plate in there than WJlover did, im going with 1/4" flat steel, possibly angle or c-channel inside the frame rail that is going to be as wide as i can get into the frame channel so if i go to get pulled there where be more support holding the hook in there, i dont see why it would be an issue if the factory hooks are mounted in the same method, through the same frame into a piece of steel plate, now yes, the holes are off-set in the frame vs the hooks i got are in-line, and maybe that makes them a little stronger than what im installing, because the horizontal force is on both sides of the frame and not just down the center but thats why im making my steel plate big enough that it fits against the frame/bumper joining point so if for some reason they want to start to move forward and and elongate the holes, the 1/4" steel plate will stop it because its up against the bumper

and heres an interesting question, now im not sure how the westin brush guard mounts to a wj, but doesnt it just have 2 mounting points on each side? and ive heard plenty of people on here who have made hooks onto them and pulled with them, also http://www.rustysoffroad.com/rustys-...ok-kit-wj.html those are the tow hook kit for the wj from rustys, i might be wrong but it appears that it only bolts into 2 spots on the frame also, then the piece of 1/4" drops down and you mount your hook
KC, using thicker metal will not make it stronger, flat stock as thick as the frame metal is plenty, remember "a chain is only as strong as its weakest link", your weak link being the existing frame, that said, if you want some added strength you must weld the plate you are thinking of using to the frame making it one piece and it should cover the whole horizontal area, butted and welded to the side walls so that it spreads the force through out the whole tube, imho overkill since the hooks are only 10,000 lbs......your concern with the hooks not being perfectly horizontal is well founded, you should definitely use a spacer such as a washer or thin flat stock to make the assembly perfectly horizontal, that's where your strength lies, force being exerted on both bolts equally, a misaligned hook as you describe may exert more force on the front bolt most likely causing premature failure of the frame metal, or bolt or hook itself, ofcourse all this depends on how often you'll use the hooks, occasionally getting pulled or pulling another vehicle of similar size should not be a problem at all or be a cause of concern, guys it's not rocket science.
Jeepoman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-12-2012, 07:41 PM   #28
Jeepoman
Registered User
2002 WJ 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: , New Jersey
Posts: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepoman View Post
KC, using thicker metal will not make it stronger, flat stock as thick as the frame metal is plenty, remember "a chain is only as strong as its weakest link", your weak link being the existing frame, that said, if you want some added strength you must weld the plate you are thinking of using to the frame making it one piece and it should cover the whole horizontal area, butted and welded to the side walls so that it spreads the force through out the whole tube, imho overkill since the hooks are only 10,000 lbs......your concern with the hooks not being perfectly horizontal is well founded, you should definitely use a spacer such as a washer or thin flat stock to make the assembly perfectly horizontal, that's where your strength lies, force being exerted on both bolts equally, a misaligned hook as you describe may exert more force on the front bolt most likely causing premature failure of the frame metal, or bolt or hook itself, ofcourse all this depends on how often you'll use the hooks, occasionally getting pulled or pulling another vehicle of similar size should not be a problem at all or be a cause of concern, guys it's not rocket science.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WJlover View Post
as for the hook not sitting perfectly flat (i forgot to mention this), to mount it there you do need to tighten it down to crush that section of the pinch. but i see no issue with that really.

and im glad someone with some real metal working experience chimed in. thank you jeepoman.
and now my mind is even more set at ease than it originally was.

and yes thicker steel would be better but i just couldnt afford it at the time. at the end of this little build i literally was all out of cash. i had to count quarters and a few bills to afford the grade 8 hardware.
I was unaware you could crush the lip so easily, like I said before I've never seen the front hook set up personally only your pics.... so no biggie either way.
Jeepoman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-12-2012, 07:46 PM   #29
WJlover
Senior Member
1999 WJ 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: portsmouth, nh
Posts: 657
Quote:
Originally Posted by kc2mrg View Post
haha, yea i know what you mean there, but im getting it free, all i have invested in it is the hooks ($6ea.) and some red paint, the hooks came with bolts and i had the tools already to mount them, im thinking about either pounding it flat or filing it flat, and also, after i drilled the holes, i filed them smooth and put some touch-up paint on the bare metal so it wont start rusting, or well, rusting as quickly lol
you dont have to pound or file it.
once you start tightening down the bolts the hook itself crushes it very easily.
saves alot of time and effort.
as for rust....i saturated mine in silicone spray.
you will see in alot of my posts on this forum i mention using silicone, i f#%king love the stuff lol.

i do plan on securing it a little better. maybe have a piece of angle iron welded in there to the bottom and side. and maybe for some overkill, weld another plate to the bottom of the frame. and then i have the frame sandwiched between to pieces of steel, i think id have a pretty strong setup there.
WJlover is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-12-2012, 07:52 PM   #30
narnwv
Moderator
 
narnwv's Avatar
2000 WJ 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Cross Lanes, WV
Posts: 6,226
Quote:
Originally Posted by WJlover View Post
i do plan on securing it a little better. maybe have a piece of angle iron welded in there to the bottom and side. and maybe for some overkill, weld another plate to the bottom of the frame. and then i have the frame sandwiched between to pieces of steel, i think id have a pretty strong setup there.
This sounds like a good idea.

Just remember, most bumpers mount in those frame rails. so if you ever upgrade to a metal bumper, you're going to have fitment issues unless you build the bumper yourself.
__________________
~Aaron

narnwv is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.
Note: All free e-mails have been banned due to mis-use. (Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail, etc.)
Don't have a non-free e-mail address? Click here for a solution: Manual Account Creation
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools


Suggested Threads





Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.