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Unread 08-20-2012, 02:52 PM   #1
Wayne94552
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All advice welcome: no compression in #2 Cylinder

My daughter just bought a 2001 WJ for use at school. We drove to Boise ID from CA with no problems, but I did feel an intermittent miss along to way. A few days of driving around town in Boise with no problems. Friday night we start out for the airport so I can go home and out of nowhere the thing barely runs. Sounds like a multiple misfire, really severe shaking, undriveable. We had done lots of errands earlier in the day and zero problems. There was no odd noise when the car was turned off. There was no overheating at all during the trip. The motor only has 131K miles.

I figured the ECU went out or some other electrical issue, but shop now says #2 cyl has no compression. Saturday during early diagnosis the shop said the whole side of the motor wasn't firing so I was still thinking ECU. Dropping a valve seat at 131K miles seemed unlikely to me until I saw other posts about head problems and one post showed a picture of a head with the seat out.

The shop says they can get replacement heads where this dropped seat issue has been solved. Does this sound right to any of you experienced Jeep guys? Does anyone have a link to better heads? For the $2400 I'm being quoted to do a head overhaul on both heads I'm contemplating going up and bringing the car back on a carrier and dropping in a complete rebuild motor.

All advice welcome. Thanks all.

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Unread 08-20-2012, 03:11 PM   #2
MoparCharlie
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Check for a broken valve spring.
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Unread 08-20-2012, 05:43 PM   #3
notfastenough5
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Sounds like you should have them pull the valve cover for a more complete diagnosis. A broken valve spring can be fixed without pulling the head. Of course, it could go the other way and need a seat, but there's only one way to find out.

Edit: Ask if they have done a leakdown first and figured out where the compression is escaping ie exhaust, intake or worst, crankcase. If it's leaking from intake or exhaust, then pull the vc. Good luck!
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Unread 08-20-2012, 09:27 PM   #4
Chandler
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I had a couple of stuck lifters in a ZJ years ago that killed compression. took off the rocker and tested good.
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Unread 08-20-2012, 09:40 PM   #5
oldfamilyguy
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If it is a dropped seat, from my own experience and what I've read, the dropped seat seems most often to be in cylinder #2. If it has only got loose but not broken, the damage is limited to the head and that can be replaced. If it broke into pieces, then the piston will be destroyed and likely damage to the cylinder wall too, then you're looking at pulling the engine and rebuilding/replacing. It is also possible that pieces get sucked into other cylinders as well. With a scope and looking in, a trained eye should be able to tell you one way or the other.
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Unread 08-21-2012, 04:05 PM   #6
Wayne94552
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Thanks for all the replies. The shop did perform a leak down test with the rockers off #2 cylinder and air is escaping from the intake valve. So I've authorized the shop to go with fully rebuilt heads where all seats are replaced so the parts and labor will be covered for 12K/12mo. But I did tell them pull the bad head prior to ordering the rebuilt heads in case something went really wrong and a cylinder(s) got jacked as well. At which point I'd be renting a car carrier from uhaul and doing a lot of driving. It's a lot to swallow days after plunking down tuition but what can I do with the daughter and car so many miles away.

What else are these cars notorious for? I've already replaced two window regulators in less than a month.
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Unread 08-22-2012, 06:57 AM   #7
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Read the thread on buying a used WJ. Also, as one example, look at my signature for what things to expect to replace or upgrade.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f310/...guide-1271979/

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Unread 08-22-2012, 03:08 PM   #8
jclaudii
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2400 you can buy a new/wrecked jeep with good engine and have that swapped. i would opt for used heads from local yard or have them fixed with just the parts you need. a used trailer to haul jeep back and a nice vespa may be a good compromise.
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Unread 08-22-2012, 03:45 PM   #9
oldfamilyguy
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At shop prices, you're looking at a big bill just to pull the one head to see how bad the damage is. Quicker/cheaper to look in with a scope, seat only loose and intact, pull the heads. Seat broken up, pull the whole motor. Even if you get that one rebuilt, way easier to pull the heads with the motor already out.
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Unread 08-23-2012, 06:56 PM   #10
Wayne94552
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Well the saga continues. Oldfamilyguy, or should I call you Nostradamus, you called it and I wish I had waited to read your last post. I just paid to have the head pulled to find piston damage, timing damage....I need another motor. Now I just hope it's not so bad that I can't get a core fee out of the damn thing. I'll be renting a uhaul carrier and doing a 1,300 mile round tripper to get the spare car to Boise and the WJ pile of #$%^ back home so i can replace the motor myself.

I looked up Jeep 4.7 motor and found PowerTrain Products and this page claiming they fixed dodge's mistakes https://www.powertrainproducts.net/S...FWZfTAodBmEABw

anyone have experience with them...good...bad....or other.

Thanks for the help all. Much appreciated!
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Unread 08-23-2012, 11:13 PM   #11
oldfamilyguy
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Really sorry to hear its the worst case. I got that sick feeling right away soon as you said it was cyl. #2. Can't comment on Power Train, but those are the problems that they say they take care of. The price seems pretty good though. Hopefully someone else has experience with them and can comment. Good luck with it.
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Unread 08-24-2012, 07:07 AM   #12
marcall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notfastenough5 View Post
Sounds like you should have them pull the valve cover for a more complete diagnosis. A broken valve spring can be fixed without pulling the head. Of course, it could go the other way and need a seat, but there's only one way to find out.

Edit: Ask if they have done a leakdown first and figured out where the compression is escaping ie exhaust, intake or worst, crankcase. If it's leaking from intake or exhaust, then pull the vc. Good luck!

This what I was gonna say. A leakdown is necessary. Is it leaking intake , exhaust, crankcase (rings) or the neighbor cylinder (head gasket).
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Unread 08-24-2012, 12:55 PM   #13
Wayne94552
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I had my daughter go to the shop to take some photos of the damage so I can see what I'm dealing with. She says the gouge in the piston is pretty deep and she sees lots of metal shavings. I'm glad I had her watch/help me work on cars & motors in the past because I trust her when she says, "I don't want to drive this car with that piston." Based on the pictures I think I should be able to get a core charge return from it....hopefully. Posting pictures for the heck of it.

I'll be doing some due diligence on PowerTrain over the next few days. If nothing bad comes to light I think I'm going to give them a shot. I'm guessing it would be of value to the forum for me to provide some posts on my experience with PowerTrain (if I use them), but that it should probably go in a separate thread at the very least, but possibly another forum. Any thoughts on where I would post that kind of thread?

Thanks again for the replies.
valve-seat-cylinder-2.jpg   piston-cylinder-2.jpg  
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Unread 08-24-2012, 01:33 PM   #14
jclaudii
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Wayne, there is a review section to review products and such here, so once it's in that may be a place to write about your experience. The next step would be to just make a "ongoing" rebuild page where you can post your progress, issues, concerns, pictures, etc and it's all in one place like "College 4.7 engine swap" or some other description that makes sense. Check out www.car-parts.com to see if you can find a low mileage engine close to you, most of the time they are already pulled and sitting on a pallet with some type of warranty. Also, search CL for a WJ that has been rolled, wrecked, etc to see if you can pick it up for a few hundred and use the engine out of that. And Third, call around locally and see what local shops charge and what their warranty is.

The link you posted looks good 4 year unlimited mileage warranty....at least that is a good chuck of peace of mind for a college kid!
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Unread 08-24-2012, 02:44 PM   #15
oldfamilyguy
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As sh***y as the whole thing is, maybe you caught a bit of a break. Since the seat didn't get broken up and grinding around in there, the cylinder wall should be ok maybe you could just replace that piston, maybe rod too to be safe. Can it be done with the engine in, I don't know never tried. Pretty awkward at least, maybe impossible. A bit easier i would guess with 2 wheel drive
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