AC compressor and dryer etc.. the same? - Page 3 - JeepForum.com
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #31 of 60 Old 06-17-2017, 07:59 PM
Uniblurb
Web Wheeler
 
Uniblurb's Avatar
1996 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Central
Posts: 8,631
Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropy76 View Post
I ordered the Denso compressor, Four Seasons dryer and liquid line/orfice tube.

Might as well do things right and replace what I can now. Maybe condenser and evaporator later...

So I can't find an expansion valve for the 01', does it have one? And what other lines/parts are there that should be replaced?
Appears you're going all out and forget partially filling while just have a shop evacuate/recover the 134a out of your AC system. And they shouldn't charge you much since they're going to turn around and clean/sell that 134a recovered in a recharge while you're going to diy.

It looks like about the only part you didn't order, other than evaporator & condenser, is the discharge line/hose. It goes between the compressor and condenser. Yours still may be good if the rubber isn't hard/cracked and the below 4 seasons one w/service port sells for $45 plus shipping thru RA. You may want to check your old one either way to make sure the below one is correct if you order it.

http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo....sn=386&jsn=386

Just as a heads-up while that Denso compressor you ordered "comes complete with OE specified oil" the oil is already installed in the compressor itself and there isn't enough for the whole AC system. You'll have to remove those plastic plugs for the AC lines on top then turn it upside down on that end to drain the oil out into something really clean and measure it. And if you turn the pulley/clutch a little while doing this even more oil will drain out.

And part of the problem is Denso doesn't tell you exactly what "OE oil" is in the compressor or give the spec. I've seen the FSM spec which is ND8 oil for the Denso 10PA17E compressor but believe most use PAG 46 oil which is almost exactly the same.

And since you don't want to mix oils you may be better off on just buying a 8oz bottle of PAG 46 oil and not use the new oil which came out of the compressor. That way you don't need to measure what came out of the compressor although you could keep it the same.

I don't want to give you the 04 specs for total oil, and what ounces go into each component, since believe it's different since I don't have a liquid line.

Since Harry has the 01 4.7 he may be able to tell you what he did for oil along with total 134a for a completely empty AC system.

I'd definitely flush out the evaporator and condenser. If you go the PAG 46 oil route it's $5 as an add-on item if you go with the flush tank kit and flush itself thru Amazon. Not sure if you have prime but may be necessary for this add-on deal.

https://www.amazon.com/FJC-2484-PAG-...CCGM7DCEXHJ2JE

Just thought I'd pass this info on and good luck.

PS. I just made a new post in my AC thread I started last year. Below is a link to it and Harry or others may be able to tell you if the AC performance chart also applies to the 01?

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f310/...l#post38354457


96 4.0 ZJ Laredo, 2004 4.7L WJ Limited, 96 4.0 XJ (son's)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
&
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.
Uniblurb is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 60 Old 06-19-2017, 01:21 AM Thread Starter
Entropy76
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 38
Thanks everyone. So Uniblurb, the suction hose comes with the manifold gauge set you linked me right? Also where is the drain valve for the evaporator? I assume when you say firewall that's the engine bay side but I'm thinking because the evaporator is behind the dash it may be inside the cab.

So Saturday I took it to another shop (the first one was J-Mac Radiator, the second was Aamco) and they actually diagnosed it right and said it's low on refrigerant. $160 to evacuate, refill with dye and refrigerant. Okay, so I asked how much to just evacuate it...$130. Wow, what a rip off.
Entropy76 is offline  
post #33 of 60 Old 06-19-2017, 02:58 AM Thread Starter
Entropy76
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 38
Good call on the Denso compressor oil. I did already order two 8 oz bottles of PAG before seeing your post. Where do i find how much goes in each component? Also, I only ordered one bottle of flush solvent 32 oz. Should that be enough for the evaporator and condenser?
Entropy76 is offline  
 
post #34 of 60 Old 06-19-2017, 01:06 PM
Uniblurb
Web Wheeler
 
Uniblurb's Avatar
1996 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Central
Posts: 8,631
Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropy76 View Post
Thanks everyone. So Uniblurb, the suction hose comes with the manifold gauge set you linked me right? Also where is the drain valve for the evaporator? I assume when you say firewall that's the engine bay side but I'm thinking because the evaporator is behind the dash it may be inside the cab.

So Saturday I took it to another shop (the first one was J-Mac Radiator, the second was Aamco) and they actually diagnosed it right and said it's low on refrigerant. $160 to evacuate, refill with dye and refrigerant. Okay, so I asked how much to just evacuate it...$130. Wow, what a rip off.
Yes, that manifold gauge set comes with 3 hoses; Red - high pressure hose, Blue - low pressure hose, and Yellow - suction hose also referred to as vacuum/refrigerant hose.

It should be noted the high and low pressure hoses come with different size quick disconnect connectors on the ends so you can't connect them to the wrong ports on the lines.

I will say it was difficult pouring 1/4oz of that 1oz bottle of UV dye in the suction hose small ID hose. You shouldn't have it connected to the gauge set and have the other end up while you pour it in. Wear rubber gloves and clean it all off the outside hose connectors before connecting it to the can tap or manifold gauges. One thing which would help on cutting down on the mess is go to your local pharmacy and ask them for a plastic syringe. They should just give you one (no needle) and that way you can pull 1/4 of the bottle of UV dye out while injecting it into the yellow suction hose end.

The evaporator doesn't have a drain but it's the drain coming out of the bottom of the HVAC box through the firewall. It's pretty difficult to see/find from underneath and in the middle of the firewall somewhere underneath the evaporator tubes. If you run your AC long enough you may be able to see the dye coming out with the AC drain water rather than having to swab the inside of the drain with a q-tip. That is if there's a leak and hope there isn't.

What a rip those shops want $130 just to evacuate/recover the 134a! Plus like I said they're just going to turn around and sell it to someone else as a recharge since they clean it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropy76 View Post
Good call on the Denso compressor oil. I did already order two 8 oz bottles of PAG before seeing your post. Where do i find how much goes in each component? Also, I only ordered one bottle of flush solvent 32 oz. Should that be enough for the evaporator and condenser?
That flush should be more than enough for flushing out the evaporator and condenser. In fact you should have about half left over since 8oz through each component should be sufficient. Hopefully you have a compressor and make sure you attach a hose or something to the outlet of those components just so you don't blow it everywhere. Safety glasses are a must and I'd wear some rubber gloves.

I did some research and your 01 4.7 AC system takes 24oz of 134a total when empty. This is exactly 2 of the 12oz cans of 134a you bought. But you should still watch the manifold gauges when getting near the end of the 2nd can so you don't overfill it. And the performance chart I posted a link to in my other thread is correct for your 01.

It's 'clear as mud' on how much PAG/refrigerant oil your 01 takes and how much goes into each component? I'm including a chart below for the 01 and how much each component takes is spelled out.

But here's where the confusion starts. They say the AC system takes 5.75oz of oil but it looks like they aren't including the compressor? And if you add up the amounts in the other components it equals 6.09oz yet they say it takes 5.75oz?

And then if you add the amount of new oil to the new compressor that you measured out of the old compressor how do you know this is correct?

They sure don't make the WJ FSM's as easy to understand as the ZJ FSM's which gives you total AC system oil capacity including compressor. Someone else may need to chime in here to help? And know many may just split the oil between the compressor and drier/accumulator.

BTW, new o-rings should be used on all connections and coated lightly which pag oil. Once everything it together is when you'll need to borrow a AC vacuum pump. And it should be noted it draws/boils the air/moisture out but leaves all the oil in the system.

Below is the refrigerant oil capacity chart for the 01 and someone else may need to help clarify it.
Attached Images
 

96 4.0 ZJ Laredo, 2004 4.7L WJ Limited, 96 4.0 XJ (son's)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
&
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.
Uniblurb is offline  
post #35 of 60 Old 06-19-2017, 04:08 PM
HarryH3
Registered User
2001 WJ 
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Planet Houston
Posts: 1,572
Adding dye is a piece of cake with this: http://www.autozone.com/test-scan-an...dye/424627_0_0
HarryH3 is offline  
post #36 of 60 Old 06-19-2017, 06:50 PM
Uniblurb
Web Wheeler
 
Uniblurb's Avatar
1996 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Central
Posts: 8,631
That aerosol does look like a much easier/cleaner method.

Say Harry, have you ever split up the pag oil for the different components? And is the total 5.75 oz plus replacing the oil in the compressor? That looks like the way that chart reads.

96 4.0 ZJ Laredo, 2004 4.7L WJ Limited, 96 4.0 XJ (son's)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
&
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.
Uniblurb is offline  
post #37 of 60 Old 06-19-2017, 09:16 PM
HarryH3
Registered User
2001 WJ 
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Planet Houston
Posts: 1,572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uniblurb View Post
That aerosol does look like a much easier/cleaner method.

Say Harry, have you ever split up the pag oil for the different components? And is the total 5.75 oz plus replacing the oil in the compressor? That looks like the way that chart reads.
Have never needed to. I've always just measured what came out and put that much back, plus a tiny bit to make up for what didn't drain. I'm not sure on the WJ compressor. Does it have a separate crankcase like the old York compressors? I'm more used to the GM R4's that get all of their lubrication from the oil mixed in with the refrigerant.

I wish I knew the magic that Honda uses in their a/c systems. The one in our '05 Accord will freeze you out of the car on a 100 degree day. It's awesome.
HarryH3 is offline  
post #38 of 60 Old 06-20-2017, 12:19 AM
rep-tile
Cash 4 Clunkers Survivor
 
rep-tile's Avatar
2004 WJ 
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: bakersfield
Posts: 1,266
You also need to pull a 30" Hg vacuum, which any AC manifold gauge will allow you to measure, before you fill it up with refrigerant to get rid of humidity in the system. You need vacuum pump for this purpose.

It sounds like the other shop indicated what many here are suspecting, a low refrigerant charge. It is normal for an AC system to loose some refrigerant, especially if it hasn't run for a long time. I still wonder why you are still wanting to change everything... it's a lot of work for something that should be an easy fix. But whatever, it's your rig. If you're going to go that route though, you should definitely replace all the O-rings with HNBR ones. That's often what tends to cause leaks in the first place.

04 WJ 4.0 - Avital 4103, DB-ALL
91 XJ 4.0 - Avital 4103, Stage-2 aFe intake system, BBK high flow Throttle Body, Jones Exhaust A3518M-5
rep-tile is offline  
post #39 of 60 Old 06-20-2017, 01:31 AM Thread Starter
Entropy76
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 38
Thank you rep-tile for the help. The main reason in replacing as many parts as I am is because I want the A.C. system working good and for a long time. Yes, it does sound like more work than just leak testing it and replacing that part but I've already ordered most the parts anyway.

So where are all the o- rings I should be replacing? Is there a kit with the upgraded o-r ings?
Entropy76 is offline  
post #40 of 60 Old 06-20-2017, 02:56 AM Thread Starter
Entropy76
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 38
Thoughts on Nylog anyone?
Entropy76 is offline  
post #41 of 60 Old 06-20-2017, 11:12 AM
Uniblurb
Web Wheeler
 
Uniblurb's Avatar
1996 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Central
Posts: 8,631
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryH3 View Post
Have never needed to. I've always just measured what came out and put that much back, plus a tiny bit to make up for what didn't drain. I'm not sure on the WJ compressor. Does it have a separate crankcase like the old York compressors? I'm more used to the GM R4's that get all of their lubrication from the oil mixed in with the refrigerant.

I wish I knew the magic that Honda uses in their a/c systems. The one in our '05 Accord will freeze you out of the car on a 100 degree day. It's awesome.
Thanks for the input Harry. The WJ compressors don't have the old type crankcase for holding the oil. It even says in the FSM all AC parts are assembled at the factory w/no oil in them but the compressor comes with oil in it which disperses it throughout the system.

PS. good input from rep-tile on pulling the vacuum down. When I used the vacuum pump on my other main Jeep I didn't have the manifold gauges in the loop and just used the gauge on the pump. Figured the less connections the better for determining any leaks in the AC system.

96 4.0 ZJ Laredo, 2004 4.7L WJ Limited, 96 4.0 XJ (son's)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
&
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.
Uniblurb is offline  
post #42 of 60 Old 06-20-2017, 11:52 AM
Uniblurb
Web Wheeler
 
Uniblurb's Avatar
1996 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Central
Posts: 8,631
Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropy76 View Post
Thank you rep-tile for the help. The main reason in replacing as many parts as I am is because I want the A.C. system working good and for a long time. Yes, it does sound like more work than just leak testing it and replacing that part but I've already ordered most the parts anyway.

So where are all the o- rings I should be replacing? Is there a kit with the upgraded o-r ings?
Everywhere there's any type of line connection there will be o-rings and the new parts should come with new ones. In fact you'll probably end up with some extras since the compressor should come with new o-rings for the 2 connections while any new lines or the evaporator line/hose connecting to the compressor will have new o-rings too. Not sure about any upgraded ones and the new o-rings which came with parts seemed to work well.

The only place which may not have new o-rings is the discharge line if you use your old one where it connects to the condenser from compressor line/hose. To flush out the condenser it may be best to remove this line hose so you just have 2 open tubes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropy76 View Post
Thoughts on Nylog anyone?
I've always used vasoline on those AC o-rings but just a force of habit from when I was a trans mechanic many moons ago. I have read about others who swear by that Nylog blue so it may be worth going with.

Still trying to figure out the oil amounts for different components and know another well who has a WJ who's good with AC I may PM.

Believe I would measure the oil which comes out of both the old and new compressors to see what you find? I'd forget about putting any oil in the condenser the quantity is so small (.22oz) and the compressor should push some in. Since you already bought the liquid 1oz bottle of UV dye if you do get a plastic syringe you could inject 2oz of oil into the evaporator feed tube before using dye in the syringe. Typically on the accumulator/drier you'd just pour the 3.75oz of oil down the hose.

96 4.0 ZJ Laredo, 2004 4.7L WJ Limited, 96 4.0 XJ (son's)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
&
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.
Uniblurb is offline  
post #43 of 60 Old 06-24-2017, 11:38 PM Thread Starter
Entropy76
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 38
On the Robinair manifold gauge how do i purge the air out of the refrigerant?
Entropy76 is offline  
post #44 of 60 Old 06-25-2017, 03:52 AM
Uniblurb
Web Wheeler
 
Uniblurb's Avatar
1996 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Central
Posts: 8,631
What stage are you at and is there UV dye in the yellow suction hose or did you use aerosol dye?

If there's no dye in the hose you can crack that top fitting on the yellow hose, open the can valve just a hair, then tighten that top connection back up as soon as refrigerant starts leaking out. Believe since I had dye in the hose I just went with opening up the can valve slowly along with blue low pressure hose knob with all connectors tight.

BTW, you may find about the 2nd can of 134a it will barely go in there. I got a couple plastic coffee cans of real hot tap water to sit the can(s) upright in and it went in a whole lot faster.

96 4.0 ZJ Laredo, 2004 4.7L WJ Limited, 96 4.0 XJ (son's)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
&
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.
Uniblurb is offline  
post #45 of 60 Old 06-25-2017, 08:49 AM
HarryH3
Registered User
2001 WJ 
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Planet Houston
Posts: 1,572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uniblurb View Post
BTW, you may find about the 2nd can of 134a it will barely go in there. I got a couple plastic coffee cans of real hot tap water to sit the can(s) upright in and it went in a whole lot faster.
I "borrow" a large cooking pan from the kitchen, fill it with hot water and stand the can in it. Just be sure that you have the valves on the can and the gauges open before you drop the can in the water or you risk the can bursting from the rise in pressure. The can is empty when it's floating.

You can also take refrigerant back out by submerging the can in an icewater bath.
HarryH3 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome