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Unread 03-07-2011, 01:25 PM   #1
SvtJunkie
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4 wheel drive doens't work

Here's the deal, I have a 99 Grand cherokee limited and my 4wd doesnt work. On the ground no power goes to the front tires. When I had it on 4 jack stands it sent power to my right front tire so I assumed the front diff was smoked. It has the quadra drive with the hydra-lok front diff. When I had it on the jack stands it sent power through the front driveshaft no problem. So thats why I thought it was the diff. Gets power up there but it doesnt go anywhere. I initially thought it was the transfer after reading all the problems people were having with the viscous coupler but once I got it off the ground that made me think it was the diff. I dont know where to go here, after putting 400 bucks into the front end not to mention the hours I put it I'd like to get some ideas. I've heard of people putting the wrong axles in but They looked like the right length to me but I'm not gonna lie, I'm not a jeep expert haha. Let me know what you guys think. Could it be the viscous coupling? Maybe it doesnt slip off the ground? Thanks.

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Unread 03-07-2011, 01:35 PM   #2
ezflip
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Get the front up on jack stands, have a buddy on one wheel turning it about 4-5 revolutions per seconds in one direction while you turn the other wheel 4-5 rev's in the opposite direction. The vari-loc should kick in and force the wheels to turn in the same direction. If it doesn't, your problem is in the diff.
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Unread 03-07-2011, 02:14 PM   #3
billzcat1
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Either the front left axle is too short and not engaging the splines or the axle shaft is broken. If you are getting power to the front diff and one wheel is still not spinning, there is your problem. Even with no LSD, both tires will spin under a no-load situation like that.
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Unread 03-07-2011, 05:55 PM   #4
SvtJunkie
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I was going to check the fluid again too to see if the pump soaked up any fluid or not. I'll get it up on some jack stands and see what it does. I only rotated the wheel a few times when I got it back together and it didnt work. I'll try a few more rotations. Anybody know the right lenght of axle shafts?
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Unread 03-07-2011, 10:43 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezflip View Post
Get the front up on jack stands, have a buddy on one wheel turning it about 4-5 revolutions per seconds in one direction while you turn the other wheel 4-5 rev's in the opposite direction. The vari-loc should kick in and force the wheels to turn in the same direction. If it doesn't, your problem is in the diff.
^^Do this.

I have a new hydra lok in the rear D44a and it engages after spinning one wheel about half a revolution by turning the other wheel in the opposite direction. My front "AllTime" is another story though - viscous coupler.
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Unread 03-07-2011, 11:10 PM   #6
billzcat1
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That's not how it's supposed to work. They are supposed to rotate in the same direction.
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Unread 03-08-2011, 08:26 AM   #7
CanadianZed-J
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Does 4x4 work in 4-Low? 4-Low bypasses the progressive coupler (not viscous coupler found in ZJs) and becomes chain-driven, so that alone will immediately point out a TC or diff problem. PCs rarely die in 247s like the VC does in 249s.

If 4x4 works in 4-low, the problem is in the TC. Just brainstorming here, but perhaps a low fluid level wouldn't allow the PC to engage under load?

If 4x4 does not work in 4-low and the front driveshaft turns, the problem is in the front axle. I had a similar problem with mine before and it turned out that a previous owner had replaced the driver's side axle shaft with a shorter one from a Quadra-Drive. The shaft splines just couldn't reach the diff. Also as mentioned, a broken shaft would have the same effect.




CZJ.
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So I installed the flux capacitor but the Jeep just won't do 88 mph.

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Unread 03-08-2011, 09:27 AM   #8
SvtJunkie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianZed-J View Post
Does 4x4 work in 4-Low? 4-Low bypasses the progressive coupler (not viscous coupler found in ZJs) and becomes chain-driven, so that alone will immediately point out a TC or diff problem. PCs rarely die in 247s like the VC does in 249s.

If 4x4 works in 4-low, the problem is in the TC. Just brainstorming here, but perhaps a low fluid level wouldn't allow the PC to engage under load?

If 4x4 does not work in 4-low and the front driveshaft turns, the problem is in the front axle. I had a similar problem with mine before and it turned out that a previous owner had replaced the driver's side axle shaft with a shorter one from a Quadra-Drive. The shaft splines just couldn't reach the diff. Also as mentioned, a broken shaft would have the same effect.




CZJ.
4wd doesnt work in 4lo. I have the quadra drive system in mine so is it possible to have an even shorter axle shaft? Or are these ones the smallest ones? I should try to look up some axle shaft part numbers to make sure I have the right shafts

First thing I did was try 4wd in lo and it didnt do anything thats why I initially thought the transfer. I just dont feel like replacing parts, I'd like to know how to figure it out. I'll probably check the fluid and everything today. I dont have anything going on.
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Unread 03-08-2011, 09:29 AM   #9
SvtJunkie
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I also drained and replaced the fluid in the front diff and transfer with the right stuff. Are you supposed to put friction modifier in the transfer?
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Unread 03-08-2011, 09:59 AM   #10
CanadianZed-J
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I don't think you need friction modifier for the TC, but you do need the proper Mopar 245/247/249 fluid.

So 4x4 doesn't work in 4-low. Now I'd say check to see if the front driveshaft turns with load on it. If you have a snowy parking lot and snowbank, pull up to it in 4-low and let it idle in 1st gear. The idea is to get the rear wheels spinning without the front wheels rolling so you can look underneath and see if the driveshaft is turning or not.

The QD axle shafts are shorter than the non-QD ones and as far as I know there are no other lengths. So the wrong shaft theory is debunked. Could still be snapped though. Have you pulled the front cover yet to see what's going on in there?



CZJ.
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So I installed the flux capacitor but the Jeep just won't do 88 mph.

-'99 WJ Limited, 4.7, Patriot Blue, 2" BB, 31" Mall-Terrains, Pavement Princess
-'97 TJ, Stone White, 4" Superlift, 33" SSRs, lunchboxed rear, 12K Titan winch, and 2.5 litres of exhillirating performance.
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Unread 03-08-2011, 02:20 PM   #11
billzcat1
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If you have it up on jackstands you can engage 4LO to see if the driveshaft turns. This will tell you if it is a TC issue or a diff issue. This will be safer than putting it in 4LO on the snow and letting it drive over you. Of course, there is still some risk when you have a running vehicle on jackstands, but quite a bit less.
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Unread 03-08-2011, 04:15 PM   #12
SvtJunkie
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Haven't pulled the diff cover off yet since the fluid is so damn expensive. Last time I checked the front driveshaft was turning and no power was being sent to the wheels. It just shudders when you get on it like the front tires want to move.
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Unread 03-09-2011, 04:09 PM   #13
CanadianZed-J
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billzcat1 View Post
If you have it up on jackstands you can engage 4LO to see if the driveshaft turns. This will tell you if it is a TC issue or a diff issue. This will be safer than putting it in 4LO on the snow and letting it drive over you. Of course, there is still some risk when you have a running vehicle on jackstands, but quite a bit less.

It's not particularily dangerous doing it carefully on a snowbank. Move up to a large snowbank in 4-lo, let off the brake slowly and let the rear wheels begin spinning at idle. Wait a bit to make sure nothing moves then get out, get on your knees and peek under the Jeep. You don't have to climb under it to see the front DS. "Ghost riding" at 0 mph with the rear wheels spinning at 2 mph isn't exactly reckless.

Now the whole idea behind this way is to put some load on the front wheels while testing the 4x4. On jackstands with the front off the ground, a barely-working PC could turn the wheels with no load on them and appear to be fine.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SvtJunkie View Post
Haven't pulled the diff cover off yet since the fluid is so damn expensive. Last time I checked the front driveshaft was turning and no power was being sent to the wheels. It just shudders when you get on it like the front tires want to move.

I just run generic 75/90 (if I remember right) gear oil in all my diffs. Costs like $8 to change the diff oil. You, however, having QD would need a bottle of Mopar friction modifier too. Not sure what that costs.

I still say pull the diff cover. It'll cost you $15 (around there...) but you'll either confirm a problem or confirm it's not a problem and you'll sleep better knowing you have fresh oil in there.



CZJ.
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So I installed the flux capacitor but the Jeep just won't do 88 mph.

-'99 WJ Limited, 4.7, Patriot Blue, 2" BB, 31" Mall-Terrains, Pavement Princess
-'97 TJ, Stone White, 4" Superlift, 33" SSRs, lunchboxed rear, 12K Titan winch, and 2.5 litres of exhillirating performance.
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Unread 03-10-2011, 07:27 AM   #14
SvtJunkie
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I pulled the jeep up to an icy bill and my front driveshaft turns under load and all the wheels do is shudder like they want to turn. As far as taking the diff cover off goes I already did that when I replaced the diff assembly. It's more like 50 bucks to change fluid haha. Not 15 haha. I think the friction modifier might be 15 bucks alone. 2 quarts and friction modifier was 65 bucks with 10% off. So I'm stumped. My buddy works at a shop and I'm gonna bring it in there and figure it out since they have lifts and a lot of experience on jeeps.
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Unread 03-10-2011, 10:10 AM   #15
CarlJH
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if the propshaft is turning but the wheels are just shuddering then somethings gone wrong in the diff.
why did you get the diff replaced? if the splines on the driveshafts or pinion gear were worn then the problem wouldn't go away.
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