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Unread 06-20-2015, 11:57 AM   #1
only_in_a_yj
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1994 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: montgomery, wv
Posts: 74
Wj 4.7 Stalling When Hot

4.7 (non HO) 2003 WJ. For the ten months I've had this Jeep it has ran fine until now. The problem started when it failed to start after driving for around two hours, after it cooled down, it started but was missing and down on power. Autozone pulled the codes and they pointed to a bad CPS. I was traveling so the Autozone sensor was all that was available. This didn't seem to change anything other than blowing the ASD fuse once the engine warmed up. I had it towed home and replaced the CPS with a Mopar unit but I'm still having the same issue. I haven't blown a fuse yet though. I've checked the oxygen sensor and injector wires but didn't find any problems. I still believe the engine is having problems knowing the RPM due to the tach bouncing. It always starts when cold, but runs rough. Any help is appreciated, I'm stumped.

Things I've checked:
  • Fuel pressure - Good when hot and cold
  • Spark - Good when cold, none when hot
  • O2 Wires - No visible issues
  • Injector wires - No visible issues


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2003 WJ, Limited, 4.7, Quadra Drive. Stock
94 YJ, 4" Lift, Winch, 33x12.50
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Unread 06-20-2015, 03:25 PM   #2
jabutler23
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1999 WJ 
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: carmichael, ca
Posts: 5
I just had the same problem with my 99 WJ. Check engine light came on and it had the same symptoms. Code reader said bad Crank/Cam shaft Position Sensor. As far as i know the code it throws isn't specific on exactly which one is bad. This can cause your engine to run rough/die for no reason. I was told to replace both just to be sure, one you can access from the top, you have to take out the battery to get to it, the other one you have to go underneath, and its behind the starter. It's a real pain. I replaced both and that fixed my issue, now my engine runs great. Oh and btw NEVER buy those kinds of parts from autozone, they will always fail. You need OEM factory sensors from dodge. A bit more expensive, but worth it.
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Unread 06-20-2015, 04:12 PM   #3
outofrng623
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2004 WJ 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: yonkers, ny
Posts: 646
What is the actual code you first got and are getting now? If you do not have a reader, you can turn the ignition on till the odom lights up, then off, on, then off, on and then the code should appear in the odometer.
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Unread 06-20-2015, 09:07 PM   #4
only_in_a_yj
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1994 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: montgomery, wv
Posts: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by outofrng623 View Post
What is the actual code you first got and are getting now? If you do not have a reader, you can turn the ignition on till the odom lights up, then off, on, then off, on and then the code should appear in the odometer.
P0320 Ignition/Distributor Engine Speed Input Circuit
P0322 Ignition/Distributor Engine Speed Input Circuit No Signal
P1389 No Auto Shutdown (ASD) Relay Output Voltage At PCM (this came after the autozone CPS blew the ASD fuse)
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94 YJ, 4" Lift, Winch, 33x12.50
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Unread 06-21-2015, 05:38 AM   #5
outofrng623
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2004 WJ 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: yonkers, ny
Posts: 646
With 99% certainty I will say there is a harness problem. My 1% would lean towards a cam position sensor (crank and cam work together in sorts). This is based just on looking at the information on the thread. A little later I will lookup the wiring diagrams and troubleshooting in the manual...and get back to you.

I do not see p0322 in the manual...But, here are the other two. After looking at this, I would still lean towards checking the harnesses first, before spending money on a cam sensor.

P1389-NO ASD RELAY OUTPUT VOLTAGE AT PCM
When Monitored and Set Condition:
P1389-NO ASD RELAY OUTPUT VOLTAGE AT PCM
When Monitored: With ignition key on, battery voltage above 10.4 volts, and engine RPM
greater than 400.
Set Condition: No voltage sensed at the PCM when the ASD Relay is energized.
POSSIBLE CAUSES
GOOD TRIP EQUAL TO ZERO
ASD RELAY
(A14) FUSED B+ CIRCUIT OPEN
(A142) ASD RELAY OUTPUT CIRCUIT OPEN
(A142) ASD OUTPUT CIRCUIT OPEN
PCM
TEST ACTION APPLICABILITY
1 Check for any related TSBs.
Ignition on, engine not running.
With the DRBIIIt, read DTCs and record the related Freeze Frame data.
Is the Good Trip Counter displayed and equal to zero?
All
Yes ! Go To 2
No ! Refer to the INTERMITTENT CONDITION Symptom (Diagnostic
Procedure).
Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 2.
2 Attempt to start the engine.
Did the engine start?
All
Yes ! Go To 3
No ! Go To 4
3 Turn the ignition off.
Remove the ASD Relay from the PDC.
Disconnect the PCM harness connectors.
Measure the resistance of the (A142) ASD Relay Output circuit from the ASD Relay
cavity in the PDC to the PCM harness connector.
Is the resistance below 5.0 ohms?
All
Yes ! Go To 7
No ! Repair the open in the (A142) ASD Relay Output circuit.
Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 2.
162
DRIVEABILITY - GAS
TEST ACTION APPLICABILITY
4 Install a substitute relay for the ASD Relay.
Attempt to start the vehicle.
Did the engine start?
All
Yes ! Replace the ASD Relay.
Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 2.
No ! Go To 5
5 Turn the ignition off.
Remove the ASD Relay from the PDC.
Using a 12-volt test light, probe the (A14) Fused B+ circuit at the ASD Relay
connector.
Does the test light illuminate brightly?
All
Yes ! Go To 6
No ! Repair the open or short to ground in the (A14) Fused B+ circuit.
Inspect and replace fuses as necessary.
Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 2.
6 Disconnect the PCM harness connectors.
Measure the resistance of the (A142) ASD Relay Output circuit from the ASD Relay
cavity in the PDC to the PCM harness connector.
Is the resistance below 5.0 ohms?
All
Yes ! Go To 7
No ! Repair the open in the (A142) ASD Relay Output circuit.
Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 2.
7 NOTE: Before continuing, check the PCM harness connector terminals for
corrosion, damage, or terminal push out. Repair as necessary.
Using the schematics as a guide, inspect the wire harness and connectors. Pay
particular attention to all Power and Ground circuits.
If there are no possible causes remaining, view repair.
All
Repair
Replace and program the Powertrain Control Module per Service
Information.
Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 2.


0320-NO CRANK REFERENCE SIGNAL AT PCM
When Monitored: With the ignition on.
Set Condition: No signal from the crankshaft position sensor is present during engine
cranking, and at least 3 camshaft position sensor signals have occurred.
POSSIBLE CAUSES
INTERMITTENT CRANK POSITION SIGNAL
CAM POSITION SENSOR SIGNAL
(K7) 5-VOLT SUPPLY CIRCUIT SHORTED TO VOLTAGE
(K7) 5-VOLT SUPPLY CIRCUIT OPEN
(K7) 5-VOLT SUPPLY CIRCUIT SHORTED TO GROUND
(K24) CKP SENSOR SIGNAL CIRCUIT SHORTED TO VOLTAGE
(K24) CKP SENSOR SIGNAL CIRCUIT OPEN
(K24) CKP SENSOR SIGNAL CIRCUIT SHORTED GROUND
(K24) CKP SENSOR SIGNAL SHORTED TO (K7) 5-VOLT SUPPLY CIRCUIT
(K4) SENSOR GROUND CIRCUIT OPEN
CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR
PCM
TEST ACTION APPLICABILITY
1 Ignition on, engine not running.
With the DRBIIIt, read DTCs and record the related Freeze Frame data.
Check for any related TSBs.
With the DRBIIIt, erase DTCs.
Start the engine.
If the DTC does not set right away it may be necessary to take the vehicle on a test
drive.
Does the DTC return?
All
Yes ! Go To 2
No ! Go To 14
101
DRIVEABILITY - GAS
TEST ACTION APPLICABILITY
2 Turn the ignition off.
Disconnect the CKP Sensor harness connector.
Ignition on, engine not running.
Measure the voltage on the (K7) 5-volt Supply circuit in the CKP Sensor harness
connector.
Is the voltage between 4.8 and 5.2 volts?
All
Yes ! Go To 3
No ! Go To 10
3 Measure the voltage on the (K24) CKP Sensor Signal circuit in the CKP Sensor
harness connector with the Ignition on and Sensor harness connector disconnect.
Is the voltage between 4.5 and 5.0 volts?
All
Yes ! Go To 4
No ! Go To 6
4 Turn the ignition off.
Disconnect the PCM harness connectors.
Measure the resistance of the (K4) Sensor ground circuit from the CKP Sensor
harness connector to the PCM harness connector.
Is the resistance below 5.0 ohms?
All
Yes ! Go To 5
No ! Repair the open in the (K4) Sensor ground circuit.
Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 5.
5 NOTE: Inspect the slots on the flywheel for damage. If a problem is found
repair as necessary.
If there are no possible causes remaining, view repair.
All
Repair
Replace the Crankshaft Position Sensor.
Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 5.
6 Turn the ignition off.
Disconnect the PCM harness connectors.
Ignition on, engine not running.
Measure the voltage on the (K24) CKP Sensor Signal circuit in the CKP Sensor
harness connector.
Did the voltage increase above 5.2 volts with the Ignition on?
All
Yes ! Repair the short to voltage in the (K24) CKP Sensor Signal
circuit.
Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 5.
No ! Go To 7
7 Turn the ignition off.
Measure the resistance of the (K24) CKP Sensor Signal circuit from the CKP Sensor
harness connector to the PCM harness connector.
Is the resistance below 5.0 ohms?
All
Yes ! Go To 8
No ! Repair the open in the (K24) CKP Sensor Signal circuit.
Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 5.
102
DRIVEABILITY - GAS
P0320-NO CRANK REFERENCE SIGNAL AT PCM — Continued
TEST ACTION APPLICABILITY
8 Measure the resistance between ground and the (K24) CKP Sensor Signal circuit in
the CKP Sensor harness connector.
Is the resistance below 100 ohms?
All
Yes ! Repair the short to ground in the (K24) CKP Sensor Signal circuit.
Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 5.
No ! Go To 9
9 Measure the resistance between the (K24) CKP Sensor Signal circuit and the (K7)
5-volt Supply circuit in the CKP Sensor harness connector.
Is the resistance below 5.0 ohms?
All
Yes ! Repair the short between the (K7) 5-volt Supply circuit and the
(K24) CKP Sensor Signal circuit.
Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 5.
No ! Go To 13
10 Turn the ignition off.
Disconnect the PCM harness connectors.
Ignition on, engine not running.
Measure the voltage on the (K7) 5-volt Supply circuit at the CKP Sensor harness
connector.
Is the voltage above 5.2 volts?
All
Yes ! Repair the short to voltage in the (K7) 5-volt Supply circuit.
Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 5.
No ! Go To 11
11 Turn the ignition off.
Measure the resistance of the (K7) 5-volt Supply circuit from the CKP Sensor harness
connector to the PCM harness connector.
Is the resistance below 5.0 ohms?
All
Yes ! Go To 12
No ! Repair the open in the (K7) 5-volt Supply circuit.
Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 5.
12 Measure the resistance between ground and the (K7) 5-volt Supply circuit at the CKP
Sensor harness connector.
Is the resistance below 100 ohms?
All
Yes ! Repair the short to ground in the (K7) 5-volt Supply circuit.
Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 5.
No ! Go To 13
13 NOTE: Before continuing, check the PCM harness connector terminals for
corrosion, damage, or terminal push out. Repair as necessary.
Using the schematics as a guide, inspect the wire harness and connectors. Pay
particular attention to all Power and Ground circuits.
If there are no possible causes remaining, view repair.
All
Repair
Replace and program the Powertrain Control Module per Service
Information.
Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 5.
103
DRIVEABILITY - GAS
P0320-NO CRANK REFERENCE SIGNAL AT PCM — Continued
TEST ACTION APPLICABILITY
14 NOTE: The following tests may help in identifying a possible intermittent
condition with the Crank Sensor or its related wire harness.
Ignition on, engine not running.
With the DRBIIIt as a Dual Channel Lab Scope and the Miller special tool #6801,
backprobe the (K24) CKP Signal circuit in the Crank Sensor connector and the PCM
harness connector.
Wiggle the related wire harness and connections.
Monitor the lab scope screen.
WARNING: WHEN THE ENGINE IS OPERATING, DO NOT STAND IN A
DIRECT LINE WITH THE FAN. DO NOT PUT YOUR HANDS NEAR THE
PULLEYS, BELTS OR FAN. DO NOT WEAR LOOSE CLOTHING.
Start the engine.
Lightly tap on the Crank Sensor and wiggle the CKP Sensor connector and the
related wire harness.
Observe the lab scope screen.
Look for any erratic pulses generated by the CKP Sensor.
Did the CKP Sensor generate any erratic pulses?
All
Yes ! Carefully inspect the wire harness and connections, repair as
necessary, if ok, replace the Crank Position Sensor.
Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 5.
No ! Go To 15
15 NOTE: An intermittent failure with the Cam Position Sensor may cause the
P0320 code to set.
Turn the ignition off.
With the DRBIIIt as a Dual Channel Lab Scope and the Miller special tool #6801,
backprobe the (K44) CMP Signal circuit in the CMP Sensor connector and the PCM
harness connector.
WARNING: WHEN THE ENGINE IS OPERATING, DO NOT STAND IN A
DIRECT LINE WITH THE FAN. DO NOT PUT YOUR HANDS NEAR THE
PULLEYS, BELTS OR FAN. DO NOT WEAR LOOSE CLOTHING.
Ignition on, engine not running.
Wiggle the related wire harness and gently tap on the Cam Position Sensor.
Monitor the lab scope screen.
Start the engine.
Lightly tap on the CMP Sensor and wiggle the related wire harness.
Observe the lab scope screen, looking for any erratic pulses generated by the CMP
Sensor.
Did the CMP Sensor generate any erratic pulses?
All
Yes ! Carefully inspect the wire harness and connections, repair as
necessary, if ok, replace the Cam Position Sensor.
Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 5.
No ! Test Complete
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Unread 06-21-2015, 07:56 PM   #6
only_in_a_yj
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1994 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: montgomery, wv
Posts: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by outofrng623 View Post
With 99% certainty I will say there is a harness problem. My 1% would lean towards a cam position sensor (crank and cam work together in sorts). This is based just on looking at the information on the thread. A little later I will lookup the wiring diagrams and troubleshooting in the manual...and get back to you.
...


Thanks for the information, I will start going through it if what I'm doing now doesn't fix it.

I changed the cam position sensor today. It seemed to idle better, but on a short test drive (less than 1 mile) it is still down on power. I came back and cleaned the IAC and pulled two spark plugs out of curiosity. The electrode on both were completely gone with a .090 gap. I'm replacing the plugs before I put the intake back together.
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2003 WJ, Limited, 4.7, Quadra Drive. Stock
94 YJ, 4" Lift, Winch, 33x12.50
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Unread 06-21-2015, 08:10 PM   #7
outofrng623
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2004 WJ 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: yonkers, ny
Posts: 646
I hope it was a Mopar cam and champion coppers...and a computer reset and a longer drive....gotta let it learn. Just to be sure. I had a bad coil, it didn't throw a code until wide open throttle. So, take it on a hard ride just in case.
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Unread 07-02-2015, 07:13 AM   #8
only_in_a_yj
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1994 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: montgomery, wv
Posts: 74
Well, I replaced the cam sensor with a mopar unit, and used champion copper plus plugs. It no longer stalls when it reaches operating temp, so the cam sensor must have been the issue there. But now I'm getting P0300, P0307, and P0308 codes (missfire codes for random/multiple, cylinder 7 and cylinder 8). I'm going to try swapping the coils around and see if the miss follows them.
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94 YJ, 4" Lift, Winch, 33x12.50
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Unread 07-03-2015, 07:36 PM   #9
outofrng623
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2004 WJ 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: yonkers, ny
Posts: 646
Well. Good news followed by bad, it's a jeep after all. My guess would be...you didn't put the coils all the way down and tighten it up well enough. The rear ones are tricky. That's first guess. Second would be damaged wires from moving stuff around. Third guess broke two coils when you removed them, unlikely.
Interested to see what happens if you swap cools. I know when I had aftermarket ones, the spring connectors in the coil would get stuck crooked in the boot and cause an issue. Good luck!
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