1999-2000 WJ Fan clutch and E fan... - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep Grand Cherokee & Commander Forums > WJ Grand Cherokee Forum > 1999-2000 WJ Fan clutch and E fan...

All Bilstein shocks & struts - Lowest Prices Ever and Santa Kolak Announces: Kolak Exhaust 20% Off Sale!Introducing MONSTALINER™ UV Permanent DIY Roll On Bed Line

Reply
Unread 06-08-2014, 05:08 PM   #1
780406jeeper
Registered User
2004 WJ 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 347
1999-2000 WJ Fan clutch and E fan...

One and all,
simple questions I hope. Here goes.
1) Are the 1999-2000 WJ with 4.7 V-8s and a tow package if that matters all equipped with a 5-blade mechanical fan and thermal clutch as well as the auxiliary electric fan as part of the fan shroud?
2) Is the electric fans all 2-speed fans, low and high speed?
3) Was there an option 7 blade mechanical fan as an option?

Reason I am asking... my '04 is about to hit 100K miles. I decided to change out my radiator, water pump, thermostat, blah blah blah. After going through 2 Mopar rads that had leaking transmission coolers, I had a Napa Spectra one that is fine. My hydro fan motor is failing. National backorder on fan with no release date from Fiat/Chrysler. Last time was 9 months, but Federal Law has now changed and they only need to keep parts for 8 years instead of 10. On top of that, the MS5931 specific fluid is no longer made nor is any left at dealers. I am done with the hydro setup and if I can't find another long-term solution, jeep is gone. I plan on keeping the hydro solenoid plugged in and zip-tied to the frame somewhere to keep the computer happy and not throw a Check Engine light that would kill me through emissions. My plan is to swap in the '99-'00 shroud with electric fan, and mechanical clutch fan. I figure I can get a fan controller to run the high speed on the electric fan (if it is 2-speed) and tap off the ac clutch to trigger the slow speed. Thanks for any help.
Kevin

__________________
'78 Cherokee Chief: 360/TH400/NOS QT, '04 Grand Cherokee: 4.7/545RFE/242HD w/SYE, JK Rubi front axle, 4.56 gears, Protofab rear bumper/tire carrier
780406jeeper is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-08-2014, 05:56 PM   #2
fast540
Registered User
1999 WJ 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: rohnert park, ca
Posts: 1,552
Sounds like a solid plan
fast540 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-08-2014, 06:33 PM   #3
rm2001wj
Web Wheeler
 
rm2001wj's Avatar
2001 WJ 
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 3,127
Only the 04 I6 electric fan is 2-speed. Earlier electric fans (I6 and V8) use the solid state pulse width modulated (PWM) relay and appropriate signal from the PCM to vary the fan speed.
__________________
2001 WJ Limited with Quadra-Drive, Kenne Bell Supercharger, 3-inch Kolak exhaust, Stillen rotors (F/R) and MM pads, Addco sway bars (F/R).
rm2001wj is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-08-2014, 06:54 PM   #4
Jeeples
Registered User
2000 WJ 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: forum/f310/, UT
Posts: 4,851
FWIW the proper spec fluid is found in many parts stores. Just because you no longer have the hydro fan doesn't mean you can use a different spec fluid. MS5931 is spec'd across all years of the WJ. A simple search here will tell you which brands are acceptable.

Also if your fan is nonfunctional due to a bad solenoid there's a write up here on lightly modifying a similar Ford solenoid for use in WJs.
__________________
His: '00 WJ 4.7 Limited- stock

Hers: '03 WJ 4.7 V8- IRO 3", 245/75/16 Duratracs
Jeeples is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-08-2014, 08:45 PM   #5
narnwv
Moderator
 
narnwv's Avatar
2000 WJ 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Cross Lanes, WV
Posts: 6,248
yup. The fan is NOT two speed, it's 100% variable speed. You'd need a 2000 wiring harness, PCM, and the special fan relay to accomplish this.

Funny thing is, I'm wanting to convert my 2000 to the hydraulic setup.
__________________
~Aaron

narnwv is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-08-2014, 08:49 PM   #6
fast540
Registered User
1999 WJ 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: rohnert park, ca
Posts: 1,552
Quote:
Originally Posted by narnwv
yup. The fan is NOT two speed, it's 100% variable speed. You'd need a 2000 wiring harness, PCM, and the special fan relay to accomplish this. Funny thing is, I'm wanting to convert my 2000 to the hydraulic setup.
or you can use an adjustable thermostatic relay from summit for the efan
fast540 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-08-2014, 08:59 PM   #7
narnwv
Moderator
 
narnwv's Avatar
2000 WJ 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Cross Lanes, WV
Posts: 6,248
sure, but it won't operate in the same way as the factory setup.
__________________
~Aaron

narnwv is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-08-2014, 09:08 PM   #8
780406jeeper
Registered User
2004 WJ 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeples View Post
FWIW the proper spec fluid is found in many parts stores. Just because you no longer have the hydro fan doesn't mean you can use a different spec fluid. MS5931 is spec'd across all years of the WJ. A simple search here will tell you which brands are acceptable.

Also if your fan is nonfunctional due to a bad solenoid there's a write up here on lightly modifying a similar Ford solenoid for use in WJs.
Maybe I am a little punchy right now so please read this through a set of eyes that are really tired. It sounds like you might know which fluid is right and it would be really helpful to simply post that up. FWIW, Chrysler fluid 04883077 is MS5931. The Valvoline white bottle stuff recommended by all the threads states Specs, Chrysler MS5391, I will assume that is a typo but with a $1000 fan, kind of a gamble.

I happen to had tried the Ford valve XW4Z-3783-CA and the correct Ford pigtail, 1U2Z-14S411-BAA. Wired it all in and the solenoid fits the old 2-wire one perfectly and works great. Unfortunately for me, the hydraulic motor is what is grinding and crunching around when the fan is asked to kick in. If all that is wrong with someone's system is the solenoid valve, the Ford one is perfect.

I have already purchased for $1050 out the door with Chrylser's $85.00 core charge fan. I also have a new pressure line and the jumper harness to get my 2-wire to the 3-wire. What I struggle with is lets say I put this $1300 crap in and it fails in 6 months for whatever reason. I have the last new one in AZ sitting in my garage. What the hell do I do then? This is why I want to figure something else out. I don't really care if the variable speed fan can't be controlled by my computer. It sounds like the I-6 one has 2 speeds so that would be better. I might see if that shroud works or at least the replacement fan motor on a V-8 shroud.

A friend of mine just brought over his 2000 WJ. It all looks doable with the exception that my AC pressure line runs infront of my AC compressor clutch, right in the way of the mechanical fan and shroud. I would need to use the compressor side of the pressure line from his grafted onto my line to re-route it. Might stop by an AC shop that makes custom lines to see if I can.

I wonder if the aftermarket would ever pickup the hydro fan void and help us out?
Kevin
__________________
'78 Cherokee Chief: 360/TH400/NOS QT, '04 Grand Cherokee: 4.7/545RFE/242HD w/SYE, JK Rubi front axle, 4.56 gears, Protofab rear bumper/tire carrier
780406jeeper is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-08-2014, 09:14 PM   #9
narnwv
Moderator
 
narnwv's Avatar
2000 WJ 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Cross Lanes, WV
Posts: 6,248
The valvoline is MS5931. Read the bottle yourself if you're not convinced. There's a few others that also have it listed on the bottle, but I like Valvoline products.

The fans aren't what's hard to come by. There are functional hydraulic fans in junk yards all across the USA. The solenoid (what usually goes bad) is what's usually hard to get your hands on.

The 2004 I6 on is the only one that's two speed. Low for every day use, high for when the AC is on, or 220* is reached. 99-03s are like the 99-00 V8 setups.
__________________
~Aaron

narnwv is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-08-2014, 09:35 PM   #10
780406jeeper
Registered User
2004 WJ 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 347
Quote:
Originally Posted by narnwv View Post
The valvoline is MS5931. Read the bottle yourself if you're not convinced. There's a few others that also have it listed on the bottle, but I like Valvoline products.

The fans aren't what's hard to come by. There are functional hydraulic fans in junk yards all across the USA. The solenoid (what usually goes bad) is what's usually hard to get your hands on.

The 2004 I6 on is the only one that's two speed. Low for every day use, high for when the AC is on, or 220* is reached. 99-03s are like the 99-00 V8 setups.
Not trying to sound argumentative but I am holding a Valvoline bottle in my hand and it says MS5391, Not MS5931, again I assume typo, but crap that is expensive to play with. I even have a new 3-wire solenoid on top of the one that is in the fan. My fan motor is toast. Gonna see what I can figure out.
Kevin
__________________
'78 Cherokee Chief: 360/TH400/NOS QT, '04 Grand Cherokee: 4.7/545RFE/242HD w/SYE, JK Rubi front axle, 4.56 gears, Protofab rear bumper/tire carrier
780406jeeper is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-08-2014, 11:11 PM   #11
Jeeples
Registered User
2000 WJ 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: forum/f310/, UT
Posts: 4,851
Quote:
Originally Posted by 780406jeeper View Post

Not trying to sound argumentative but I am holding a Valvoline bottle in my hand and it says MS5391, Not MS5931, again I assume typo, but crap that is expensive to play with. I even have a new 3-wire solenoid on top of the one that is in the fan. My fan motor is toast. Gonna see what I can figure out.
Kevin
Its a known typo. Check their website, it's correct there. Again this issue has been around and known of for ages on this forum. A quick search would yield the same info you requested. FWIW, the O'Reilly Master Pro brand of PS fluid meets the required spec and its even printed correctly on the bottle.

Have you tried cleaning out the three ball bearings in the fan housing? They're not sealed and are used to balance the fan itself, its possible that there's dirt or other debris in there causing your grinding sound.

Other wise you should be able to find a good lower mileaged used unit on car-part.com for far less than $1k.

Good luck with whatever route you take.
__________________
His: '00 WJ 4.7 Limited- stock

Hers: '03 WJ 4.7 V8- IRO 3", 245/75/16 Duratracs
Jeeples is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-09-2014, 03:56 PM   #12
780406jeeper
Registered User
2004 WJ 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 347
Jeeples,
my fan looks to have significantly more than just three ball bearings, mine looks more like 10-15. If I spin the fan with the engine off, it spins one direction with resistance (fluid) and the other direction spins really smoothly. If I 'flick' it in that direction it will spin for at least 3 full revolutions with absolutely no noise.

I have a Superchips Traildash so I can see in real time what the engine and tranny are doing. In my 15 minute drive to work the jeep is approaching 220 degrees coolant temp and 170 on the trans. Yesterday early afternoon cruising down the freeway for about a 20-25 minute drive at 60 mph (103 degrees outside temp), the engine moved between 217-222 degrees and the trans hovered around 195. In years past this would have sent the fan into full speed mode but not now. FWIW, the fan currently has a new Ford solenoid with the Ford pigtail. If I shut the jeep down, then restart it, the fan will try to get to full speed (not nearly as fast as it use to) and the hydraulic motor has a crunchy sound to it. If you crack the throttle open, the fan shuts off (or slows way down). Power steering is not affected at all by this and is working great. This leads me to the fan motor itself, or maybe that integrated diverted valve in the fan motor that regulates the pressure going to the steering box vs. fan, but not the fans 'speed solenoid'.

As test, I unplugged the temp sender. After a few seconds on startup, the fan speeds up. It does not sound at all smooth anymore nor is it spinning as fast as it use to, but again, as soon as I crack the throttle to increase the engine speed, you hear an audible noise (pressure sounding) and the fan slows way down and the power steering pump 'relaxes'. After the jeep comes back down to idle, the fan resumes full speed. In my mind, if the pump was going out (it was replaced with a brand new Mopar Unit at 65K) the steering would be affected during all this, but it isn't. Any reason someone would suspect the PCM?

So my wife and I talked a lot. Aaron (narnmv) and Jeeples, thanks for setting my mind at ease a little more with the confirmation on the Valvoline fluid as well as future availability of decent used units. We added up what it would cost to get the AC line re-routed, the correct shroud with '04 4.0 fan motor (2-speed), fan clutch, fan blade, regular power steering line from pump to box bypassing the hydro setup, electric fan adjustable regulator, fluid and all, and we get within a couple hundred bucks of just using the brand new hydro unit I have in the garage. As well, I will have a second brand new spare 3-wire solenoid to hang onto as a back up. I can see that Napa has both the pump to hydro pressure line and hydro to box pressure lines so long term I can still get the lines. I plan on owning this for a really long time. Case in point, my '78 Cherokee Chief, parents purchased new, she has a tick over 326K miles and counting. This WJ should be the same assuming it doesn't get hit.

Aaron, you indicated you were wanting to convert...how will you be able to control the solenoid, will you need to get a different PCM? Do you want to convert due to cooling issues or fuel mileage issues or other?

Parts question, where can we find the rubber o-rings for the larger 1/2-inch pressure line going from the pump to the hydro unit? Is it a standard size that can be found in an ACE Hardware or something? Mine are hard and de-formed so a little tough to gauge against new ones. Anyone have a size (o.d. vs. i.d. and thickness) they found that works?

Gonna season on this a bit more but I am leaning towards sucking it up and installing the new hydro unit I have, new primary pressure line, flush the system and cross fingers. Any reason someone would suspect the PCM at this point? Thanks for all the replies and info. Much appreciated.
Kevin
__________________
'78 Cherokee Chief: 360/TH400/NOS QT, '04 Grand Cherokee: 4.7/545RFE/242HD w/SYE, JK Rubi front axle, 4.56 gears, Protofab rear bumper/tire carrier
780406jeeper is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 06-10-2014, 09:55 AM   #13
780406jeeper
Registered User
2004 WJ 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 347
As test, I unplugged the temp sender. After a few seconds on startup, the fan speeds up. It does not sound at all smooth anymore nor is it spinning as fast as it use to, but again, as soon as I crack the throttle to increase the engine speed, you hear an audible noise (pressure sounding) and the fan slows way down and the power steering pump 'relaxes'. After the jeep comes back down to idle, the fan resumes full speed. In my mind, if the pump was going out (it was replaced with a brand new Mopar Unit at 65K) the steering would be affected during all this, but it isn't. Any reason someone would suspect the PCM?


Aaron, you indicated you were wanting to convert...how will you be able to control the solenoid, will you need to get a different PCM? Do you want to convert due to cooling issues or fuel mileage issues or other?

Parts question, where can we find the rubber o-rings for the larger 1/2-inch pressure line going from the pump to the hydro unit? Is it a standard size that can be found in an ACE Hardware or something? Mine are hard and de-formed so a little tough to gauge against new ones. Anyone have a size (o.d. vs. i.d. and thickness) they found that works?

[/QUOTE]

Any thoughts on this? Thanks in advance.
Kevin
__________________
'78 Cherokee Chief: 360/TH400/NOS QT, '04 Grand Cherokee: 4.7/545RFE/242HD w/SYE, JK Rubi front axle, 4.56 gears, Protofab rear bumper/tire carrier
780406jeeper is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.
Note: All free e-mails have been banned due to mis-use. (Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail, etc.)
Don't have a non-free e-mail address? Click here for a solution: Manual Account Creation
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools






Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.