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Unread 08-22-2013, 09:03 AM   #16
loveracing1988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkj2002 View Post

With a selectable 4wd system it is moron,even AWD's are not always AWD(50/50 split).In your case it's more power to the rear then front.With more power going to the rear with a front engine design your going to to have more slippage.
I'm pretty sure he thought you meant that it is 100 % rwd until it detects slippage. And for that matter the only time I spin the tires on my truck is when I really stomp on it, so I highly doubt something with better weight distribution like a jeep is going to spin the rear tires enough to wear out the rear pads, even a 2wd Grand Cherokee.

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Unread 08-22-2013, 09:12 AM   #17
Dave2002ti
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loveracing1988 View Post
I'm pretty sure he thought you meant that it is 100 % rwd until it detects slippage. And for that matter the only time I spin the tires on my truck is when I really stomp on it, so I highly doubt something with better weight distribution like a jeep is going to spin the rear tires enough to wear out the rear pads, even a 2wd Grand Cherokee.

Dont think so.
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Unread 08-22-2013, 09:55 AM   #18
loveracing1988
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Originally Posted by Dave2002ti View Post

Dont think so.
Don't think so what?
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Unread 08-22-2013, 11:27 AM   #19
modernblueWK
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The rear brakes on my 2012 dodge charger pursuit wear out before the fronts. The fronts wore out before the rears on my old ford crown vic. Esp vs no esp.

The rear brakes are worn more than the front but are still at 50%+ on my wk at 67k miles.

I have seen some newer cars apply the rear brakes before the fronts in the mountains or on snow. These days though its pretty tough to notice the lag between the front and rear brakes.

At pursuit driving schools i have been told ( cant confirm) that as cars get newer the designers put in a small amount of rear brake bias for stability when braking above 55 mph. When the brakes are heated after multiple laps you can feel the rear brake shimmy on high speed stops with larger pursuit vehicles like the charger, tahoe, and new ford interceptor suv.

Just my observations.

Plus the local wrench who i go to commented on lots of newer cars needing rear brakes before fronts.
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Unread 08-22-2013, 11:50 AM   #20
Dave2002ti
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????

[QUOTE=modernblueWK;15823830]

At pursuit driving schools i have been told ( cant confirm) that as cars get newer the designers put in a small amount of rear brake bias for stability when braking above 55 mph. When the brakes are heated after multiple laps you can feel the rear brake shimmy on high speed stops with larger pursuit vehicles like the charger, tahoe, and new ford interceptor suv.

I have spent a lot of track days braking from 120mph+ for turn 1 at Summit Point down to 40mph give or take. I also handled suspension and brakes for a SSCA GT3 car and a Spec Racer and you dont want any rear brake bias at speeds above 55mph. You can adjust the bias for rain etc but you never want it biased to the rear since it will result in a whole lot of fun.

If the rear brakes shimmy on high speed stops then the vehicle has design problems or brake issues have developed from improper use. For example not letting the brakes cool completely after track sessions or doing something really bright like engaging the parking brake after hot laps.
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Unread 08-22-2013, 11:51 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by loveracing1988 View Post
Don't think so what?
That our GCs are operating in just RWD that isnt what AWD means.
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Unread 08-22-2013, 11:55 AM   #22
loveracing1988
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Originally Posted by Dave2002ti View Post

That our GCs are operating in just RWD that isnt what AWD means.
I know, that is what I was saying, at the end I was saying that even a plain 2wd should not wear out the rears before the fronts, unless you are constantly doing burnouts...
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Unread 08-22-2013, 12:51 PM   #23
modernblueWK
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Just going with what ive been told and what i have experienced with street cars. Race cars might be a bit different?

Im not saying its alot if bias to the rear. They said 1-4% based on speed, steering angle, body lean etc. its more of a safety feature than a performance feature.


[quote=Dave2002ti;15823916]
Quote:
Originally Posted by modernblueWK View Post

At pursuit driving schools i have been told ( cant confirm) that as cars get newer the designers put in a small amount of rear brake bias for stability when braking above 55 mph. When the brakes are heated after multiple laps you can feel the rear brake shimmy on high speed stops with larger pursuit vehicles like the charger, tahoe, and new ford interceptor suv.

I have spent a lot of track days braking from 120mph+ for turn 1 at Summit Point down to 40mph give or take. I also handled suspension and brakes for a SSCA GT3 car and a Spec Racer and you dont want any rear brake bias at speeds above 55mph. You can adjust the bias for rain etc but you never want it biased to the rear since it will result in a whole lot of fun.

If the rear brakes shimmy on high speed stops then the vehicle has design problems or brake issues have developed from improper use. For example not letting the brakes cool completely after track sessions or doing something really bright like engaging the parking brake after hot laps.
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Unread 08-22-2013, 02:22 PM   #24
Dave2002ti
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkj2002 View Post
With a selectable 4wd system it is moron,even AWD's are not always AWD(50/50 split).In your case it's more power to the rear then front.With more power going to the rear with a front engine design your going to to have more slippage.
In sport mode it sends up to 80% of the power to the rear wheels. With my GC a max of 50% can be sent to the front and up to 80% to rear if I remember correctly. Its never in RWD moron!
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Unread 08-22-2013, 02:37 PM   #25
loveracing1988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2002ti View Post

In sport mode it sends up to 80% of the power to the rear wheels. With my GC a max of 50% can be sent to the front and up to 80% to rear if I remember correctly. Its never in RWD moron!
Actually I thought I read somewhere where it can send all of the power wherever it needs it, up to 100 percent to whichever axle has the most available traction, and for qd2 whichever wheel (in the rear) has the most traction.
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Unread 08-23-2013, 01:08 AM   #26
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This is a VERY common issue in the JK Wrangler as well. It's because of a combination of the traction control, ESP, and brake compound. Not unusual in Chrysler vehicles these days it seems. More so in the ESP programming in the JK. If you drive in snow or other slippery conditions, the brakes are applied to the rear wheels quite often to help prevent an oversteer condition, ie going around a turn in snow covered roads, like turning at an intersection. My '08 JK's rear brakes needed replaced at 14k.
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Unread 08-23-2013, 02:20 AM   #27
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Esp brakes the outside front tire to counteract oversteer and the inside rear to counteract understeer. The traction control brakes the rear wheels when they slip. So it must be the traction control and not the esp eating up the brakes.
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Unread 09-03-2013, 02:09 PM   #28
rmac427
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Thanks for all the input everybody. Took it back in to the dealer to inspect the brake system and it turns out the idiot who inspected them the first time was wrong and I have a lot less wear on the brakes than they originally told me. The rear is slightly more worn than the front, but the service manager basically confirmed what has been said in this thread, that it is normal on these vehicles for the rear brakes to wear out faster than the front due to the traction control system.

Thanks again, not sure if I would've beleived him if it wasn't for y'all.
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Unread 09-03-2013, 03:28 PM   #29
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Hmmmm... another advantage of the QD with ELSD perhaps? For those who are looking for another rationalization for the expense, brake traction control is not used (or needed) on the QD ELSD axle (rear).

I wonder if QTI eats up more brakes than QTII as the QTI transfercase is completely open, only brake traction control to shift power to another axle where QTII's transfercase shifts the power between front and rear.

I've always heard brake traction control eats up brakes on the typical open diff vehicles, especially during any slippery off road excursions.
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Unread 09-03-2013, 03:41 PM   #30
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I wonder if QTI eats up more brakes than QTII as the QTI transfercase is completely open, only brake traction control to shift power to another axle where QTII's transfercase shifts the power between front an rear.

I've got just over 6000 miles on my 2013 GC with QT1. I've been shifting and flying around a bit, even got a little slide when I got all 4 tires wet (got to love emply lots). I will let you know if they have the same wear problem.

I need to get the hot rod out of my system before I get all terrian tires, yeah right.
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