Problems with brakes, please help - Page 2 - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep Grand Cherokee & Commander Forums > WK2 Grand Cherokee Forum > Problems with brakes, please help

ZONE 4.25" combo lift for TJ available at Rockridge4wSPARTAN LOCKERS are on sale BIG TIME at ROCKRIDGE 4WD!NEW JK WRANGLER GRAB BARS NOW at ROCKRIDGE4WD

Reply
Unread 01-08-2014, 09:15 PM   #16
tjkj2002
Registered User
2002 KJ Liberty 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 7,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdCase View Post
I don't think this has anything to do with the OP's issue. The newer Brake systems are much better sealed, with better anti-corosion practices as well as filled from the factory with higher quality fluid. Flushing fluid often is a thought left over from decades ago. No question the fluid needs to be kept an eye on, but thats not any different than years ago.

Jeep no longer mentions flushing out brake fluid as part of routine maintenance... wonder why?
Take a look at some of the higher end vehicles,even most vehicles in your neck of the woods that require brake fluid flushes every 24 months.If anything these modern systems are pooly sealed compared to years ago and have 10 times the parts to corrode.Back in the day you never heard of brake fluid flushes,was not a issue 20+ years ago but is a major issue these days with use of aluminum in braking systems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by supersport126 View Post
Jeeps only 2 years old, shouldn't have too much corrosion!
You'd be amazed,like stated most higher end vehicles recommend brake fluid flushes every 2 years and almost all European vehicles follow the same.

__________________
'02 Liberty sitting on 35" tires,HP44,RockJock60,and AtlasII t-case
tjkj2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-08-2014, 10:04 PM   #17
ColdCase
My Reality Check Bounced
 
ColdCase's Avatar
2011 WK 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: New England
Posts: 3,588
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkj2002 View Post
Take a look at some of the higher end vehicles,even most vehicles in your neck of the woods that require brake fluid flushes every 24 months.If anything these modern systems are pooly sealed compared to years ago and have 10 times the parts to corrode.Back in the day you never heard of brake fluid flushes,was not a issue 20+ years ago but is a major issue these days with use of aluminum in braking systems.


You'd be amazed,like stated most higher end vehicles recommend brake fluid flushes every 2 years and almost all European vehicles follow the same.
Not sure what day you are referring to but in the 60s-70s brake flushing was discussed often. That was when fluids were low quality and hot brakes had a tendency to burn the fluid. Even in the late 90s, I used to have to flush my Y1995 Ducati brake fluids often, especially after track days.

Current parts may be more complex, but they are not going to corrode as much because they are made of better materials and manufactures are demanding only the best anti corrosion fluids be used.

Current brake systems are sealed better than my VW beetle was

Dunno what current manufactures of high end vehicles recommend but they typically have to deal with aggressive drivers that drive 100+ mph and routinely stomp on the brakes. They often design for light weight vs durability.... or depend on the brake fluid to help cool calipers (that often glow in the dark). That is an entirely different vehicle space that light trucks, like a Jeep. Which pickup or light trucks are demanding brake fluid flushes every 24 months? They seem to be more worried about coolants.

So tell me again why its not mentioned in the Jeep recommended maintenance? I mean Ferraris (a high end car I think) have a wide variety of routine maintenance items required, like every 15,000 miles or so... but how does that apply to a Jeep?
__________________
2011 Grand Cherokee Overland V8, 2009 Liberty Rocky Mt V6, 2000 Grand Cherokee Laredo I6, 1979 CJ7 I6 Quadratrac
ColdCase is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-08-2014, 10:40 PM   #18
xJoshxx
Web Wheeler
 
xJoshxx's Avatar
2012 WK 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Burlington, Kentucky
Posts: 5,500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdCase View Post
Not sure what day you are referring to but in the 60s-70s brake flushing was discussed often. That was when fluids were low quality and hot brakes had a tendency to burn the fluid. Even in the late 90s, I used to have to flush my Y1995 Ducati brake fluids often, especially after track days.

Current parts may be more complex, but they are not going to corrode as much because they are made of better materials and manufactures are demanding only the best anti corrosion fluids be used.

Current brake systems are sealed better than my VW beetle was

Dunno what current manufactures of high end vehicles recommend but they typically have to deal with aggressive drivers that drive 100+ mph and routinely stomp on the brakes. They often design for light weight vs durability.... or depend on the brake fluid to help cool calipers (that often glow in the dark). That is an entirely different vehicle space that light trucks, like a Jeep. Which pickup or light trucks are demanding brake fluid flushes every 24 months? They seem to be more worried about coolants.

So tell me again why its not mentioned in the Jeep recommended maintenance? I mean Ferraris (a high end car I think) have a wide variety of routine maintenance items required, like every 15,000 miles or so... but how does that apply to a Jeep?
I agree with coldcase, Fluids last longer today than before.

With the SRT Brembo's I have 33k on my fluid and it tests nearly perfect. little discoloration. Only got the brakes super hot 1 time that was doing 0-100 and down to 0.

60-0 in like 115ft...
__________________
Interested in Amsoil? Sold4" Hybrid lift TeraFlex coils IRO Adjustable LA's Jks tracbar 1.25spidertrax spacers 265/75/16 Dura-tracs
Quote:
Originally Posted by moPowered View Post
The SRt-8's are a liberty design.
2011 WK2 ORA2
2012 WK2 SRT8
xJoshxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-08-2014, 10:57 PM   #19
tjkj2002
Registered User
2002 KJ Liberty 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 7,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdCase View Post
Not sure what day you are referring to but in the 60s-70s brake flushing was discussed often. That was when fluids were low quality and hot brakes had a tendency to burn the fluid. Even in the late 90s, I used to have to flush my Y1995 Ducati brake fluids often, especially after track days.

Current parts may be more complex, but they are not going to corrode as much because they are made of better materials and manufactures are demanding only the best anti corrosion fluids be used.

Current brake systems are sealed better than my VW beetle was

Dunno what current manufactures of high end vehicles recommend but they typically have to deal with aggressive drivers that drive 100+ mph and routinely stomp on the brakes. They often design for light weight vs durability.... or depend on the brake fluid to help cool calipers (that often glow in the dark). That is an entirely different vehicle space that light trucks, like a Jeep. Which pickup or light trucks are demanding brake fluid flushes every 24 months? They seem to be more worried about coolants.

So tell me again why its not mentioned in the Jeep recommended maintenance? I mean Ferraris (a high end car I think) have a wide variety of routine maintenance items required, like every 15,000 miles or so... but how does that apply to a Jeep?
Check your Mercedes,bmw,volvo,and the like 24months for brake fluids flushes,heck even Honda and Toyota have recommended flush intervals.Your normal DOT 3 or DOT 4 brake fluid has not changed in 20-30 years.

By all means don't flush it,not my problem when you have issues.$10 and 15mins and I have brand new brake fluid once a year for piece of mind.Aluminum corrodes faster in brake fluid then steel but aluminum is cheaper and lighter.



Remember brake fluid and PS fluid are the most neglected fluids of any vehicle and happen to be 2 of the most important.
__________________
'02 Liberty sitting on 35" tires,HP44,RockJock60,and AtlasII t-case
tjkj2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-08-2014, 11:18 PM   #20
loveracing1988
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 666
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkj2002 View Post
Check your Mercedes,bmw,volvo,and the like 24months for brake fluids flushes,heck even Honda and Toyota have recommended flush intervals.Your normal DOT 3 or DOT 4 brake fluid has not changed in 20-30 years.

By all means don't flush it,not my problem when you have issues.$10 and 15mins and I have brand new brake fluid once a year for piece of mind.Aluminum corrodes faster in brake fluid then steel but aluminum is cheaper and lighter.

Remember brake fluid and PS fluid are the most neglected fluids of any vehicle and happen to be 2 of the most important.
If you work in a dealer yes, it does cost $10 and take 15 minutes. But if you don't your either going to spend $100 to oay to have it done or it's going to take an hour. I will agree that those are the two most neglected fluids but they are two that a normal persong could drive on for 200k and have zero issues with, in mountains maybe not but normal everyday michigan driving like the op, it is very low odds you will have issues.
loveracing1988 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-09-2014, 12:04 AM   #21
tjkj2002
Registered User
2002 KJ Liberty 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 7,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by loveracing1988 View Post
If you work in a dealer yes, it does cost $10 and take 15 minutes. But if you don't your either going to spend $100 to oay to have it done or it's going to take an hour. I will agree that those are the two most neglected fluids but they are two that a normal persong could drive on for 200k and have zero issues with, in mountains maybe not but normal everyday michigan driving like the op, it is very low odds you will have issues.
More likely to have issues were you have more humidity.While I do work at a shop I do mine in the parking lot for my apartment.It's not hard and if you have a buddy to pump the brake pedal no special tools required,just need to buy the brake fluid.
__________________
'02 Liberty sitting on 35" tires,HP44,RockJock60,and AtlasII t-case
tjkj2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-09-2014, 08:18 AM   #22
ColdCase
My Reality Check Bounced
 
ColdCase's Avatar
2011 WK 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: New England
Posts: 3,588
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkj2002 View Post
Check your Mercedes,bmw,volvo,and the like 24months for brake fluids flushes,heck even Honda and Toyota have recommended flush intervals.Your normal DOT 3 or DOT 4 brake fluid has not changed in 20-30 years.

By all means don't flush it,not my problem when you have issues.$10 and 15mins and I have brand new brake fluid once a year for piece of mind.Aluminum corrodes faster in brake fluid then steel but aluminum is cheaper and lighter.

Remember brake fluid and PS fluid are the most neglected fluids of any vehicle and happen to be 2 of the most important.
$10 and 15 minutes was way back in the day, hour minimum and at least a scan tool and pressure bleeder today to do it properly.

The Jeep service manual does not cover routine brake flushing (its not required unless contamination is suspected) but does have procedures to bleed brakes which includes the following:

1.Perform the Pressure Bleeding procedure.

2.After the Pressure Bleeding procedure, connect scan tool to the Data Link Connector.

3.Select ANTILOCK BRAKES, followed by MISCELLANEOUS, then ABS BLEED BRAKES and follow the instructions displayed for the procedure.

4.Remove the pressure bleeder from the master cylinder and make sure the brake fluid is properly filled and capped. Check brake operation.

Doesn't sound like a 15 minute job unless you happen to have the scan tool handy And yes, back in the day before ABS it was a lot easier. Most systems you could just gravity bleed.

The vehicles referenced are not light trucks. Flushing brake fluid often is like changing engine oil every 1000 miles, which I also think some here may also suggest. Not suppose to hurt but historically over zealous fluid changes cause more damage than they prevent, a secret that the shops like to keep to themselves Nothing wrong with doing it as a hobby, but suggesting you are not taking proper care of your vehicle by not being so zealous is BS.

My BMW and Mercedes don't currently mention brake flush. Daughter's Audi mentions about 100,000 miles, although 6 years ago they were suggesting replacing the brake fluid every two years. My Ferrari is 15,000 miles... but those are not light trucks either.... and we all know the reputation for costly maintenance those makes/model cars have.

Those fluids are not so much neglected, its just that they don't need much attention in an everyday street vehicle.

Where do you get data on the affect of anticorrosion brake fluid on aluminum? Not that I don't think everything in an internet forum is BS, but I'm just naturally skeptical and I need a reference... I did have a marketing rotation at one point of my career. I don't think I've seen corrosion on the insides of a auto transmission, and that fluid is similar to brake fluid.... or brake components I've rebuilt either, even in the day. You used to see rubber seal wear which often ended up in the brake fluid and darkening it.
__________________
2011 Grand Cherokee Overland V8, 2009 Liberty Rocky Mt V6, 2000 Grand Cherokee Laredo I6, 1979 CJ7 I6 Quadratrac
ColdCase is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-09-2014, 09:06 AM   #23
Dabitz
Registered User
2011  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: NJ
Posts: 401
Mine was done at Pepboys for $80 bucks including full synthetic fluid. As good as new with no issues and no dealer scans. I did mine after 3 years.
Dabitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-09-2014, 09:24 AM   #24
Dave2002ti
Registered User
2012 WK 
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Clifton, VA
Posts: 1,307
[QUOTE=tjkj2002;19244714]Take a look at some of the higher end vehicles,even most vehicles in your neck of the woods that require brake fluid flushes every 24 months.If anything these modern systems are pooly sealed compared to years ago and have 10 times the parts to corrode.Back in the day you never heard of brake fluid flushes,was not a issue 20+ years ago but is a major issue these days with use of aluminum in braking systems.

Sorry hoss but Porsche and others have had aluminum in their braking systems since at least late 60's. Duh 1970 911s calipers were aluminum. Since the mid 70's I have always changed brake fluid every 24mos if not sooner. With my BMWs for track days I would change fluid before every weekend. It has nothing do with aluminum in braking systems. Cast iron corrodes too. BTW BMW recommended brake fluid changes every 24mos back in 1990 even on their cars that didnt have aluminum in their brakes.
And I am sorry you are allegedly a mechanic. Do you any clue about the properties of brake fluid? COntinuing education program at Pep Boys must be really tough!

BTW with brake fluid more or most expensive isnt always better. Ate Gold or Ble, Castrol LMA or whatever they call it now and Ford Heavy Duty are all good brake fluids. Some ultra expensive non silicon brake fluids are for racing only since they attract water like flies attract dog poop.
Dave2002ti is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-09-2014, 10:21 AM   #25
tjkj2002
Registered User
2002 KJ Liberty 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 7,983
[quote=Dave2002ti;19255474]
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkj2002 View Post
Take a look at some of the higher end vehicles,even most vehicles in your neck of the woods that require brake fluid flushes every 24 months.If anything these modern systems are pooly sealed compared to years ago and have 10 times the parts to corrode.Back in the day you never heard of brake fluid flushes,was not a issue 20+ years ago but is a major issue these days with use of aluminum in braking systems.

Sorry hoss but Porsche and others have had aluminum in their braking systems since at least late 60's. Duh 1970 911s calipers were aluminum. Since the mid 70's I have always changed brake fluid every 24mos if not sooner. With my BMWs for track days I would change fluid before every weekend. It has nothing do with aluminum in braking systems. Cast iron corrodes too. BTW BMW recommended brake fluid changes every 24mos back in 1990 even on their cars that didnt have aluminum in their brakes.
And I am sorry you are allegedly a mechanic. Do you any clue about the properties of brake fluid? COntinuing education program at Pep Boys must be really tough!

BTW with brake fluid more or most expensive isnt always better. Ate Gold or Ble, Castrol LMA or whatever they call it now and Ford Heavy Duty are all good brake fluids. Some ultra expensive non silicon brake fluids are for racing only since they attract water like flies attract dog poop.
Sorry I'm not a mechanic(parts changer),I'm a 18 year ASE Master Tech.
__________________
'02 Liberty sitting on 35" tires,HP44,RockJock60,and AtlasII t-case
tjkj2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-09-2014, 03:09 PM   #26
Dabitz
Registered User
2011  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: NJ
Posts: 401
[quote=tjkj2002;19257386]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2002ti View Post

Sorry I'm not a mechanic(parts changer),I'm a 18 year ASE Master Tech.
Dave2002ti is a self-declared expert on every subject in this forum.
Dabitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-09-2014, 05:13 PM   #27
Dave2002ti
Registered User
2012 WK 
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Clifton, VA
Posts: 1,307
Right

[quote=Dabitz;19266714]
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkj2002 View Post

Dave2002ti is a self-declared expert on every subject in this forum.
You two boys come back to when you have been responsible for brakes on a 935, 934 and 962 at Daytona and Sebring.
Dave2002ti is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-09-2014, 05:34 PM   #28
loveracing1988
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 666
Last time I checked that has nothing to do with 99% of the things invovled in a jeep forum.
loveracing1988 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-09-2014, 07:10 PM   #29
tjkj2002
Registered User
2002 KJ Liberty 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 7,983
[quote=Dave2002ti;19270258]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabitz View Post

You two boys come back to when you have been responsible for brakes on a 935, 934 and 962 at Daytona and Sebring.
No but I have been responsible for 1000's of peoples lives(not counting other lives saved for others sharing the same roads) doing brakes on daily driven vehicles here in Colorado without fancy rollcages and a 5 point harness.

Many that are Jeeps,new and old.
__________________
'02 Liberty sitting on 35" tires,HP44,RockJock60,and AtlasII t-case
tjkj2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-09-2014, 08:29 PM   #30
supersport126
Registered User
1984 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Michigan, Michigan
Posts: 888
At this point I can't tell who's saying what lol. I sure started a good one!
supersport126 is offline   Reply With Quote




Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.