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Unread 08-16-2013, 03:34 PM   #31
NDSU_Bison
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Most of my supplier's stock comes from canola and rapeseed oil. The rest is recycled vegetable oils from restaurants.

Biodiesel shouldn't have an effect on emission systems and it's cleaner than dino juice by most measures.
http://www.biodiesel.com/index.php/b...esel#emissions



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2002ti View Post
If the local farmers are using crops that can be used to feed livestock and poultry are you doing is driving up the cost chicken, beef, pork, and turkey they may or may be benefitting. As a result its driving up everyones food costs. Depending on where you live biodiesel maybe difficult to find. Its not readily available in Northern Virginia. Out of 6 biodiesel station in VA 4 require key cards. The closest is 20 miles from my house and its the only one in NOVA. Corn should only be used to feed livestock and poultry but its most important use is make liquor. Corn should never be used for ethanol or biodiesel.

Is biodiesel compatible with emission system on the 2014 GC diesel?


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Unread 08-16-2013, 06:37 PM   #32
Ken-G
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loveracing1988 View Post
$165 for something I can get at Walmart for $8? Sounds like a steal!
BS show me where you can get 8 gallons of DEF for $8 and not be the back loading dock where Guido is giving you an extra special deal.
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Unread 08-16-2013, 07:58 PM   #33
loveracing1988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken-G View Post

BS show me where you can get 8 gallons of DEF for $8 and not be the back loading dock where Guido is giving you an extra special deal.
I didn't see it was 8 gallons. If that is the case you are looking at $165 over 8 years, that isn't bad...
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Unread 08-17-2013, 09:43 AM   #34
Ken-G
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Motortrend reported that the 8 gallons of DEF will last approximately 10,000 miles or one oil change. So depending on your driving you may have to refill your DEF tank about twice a year. I went wit the cost of MOPAR since that is what Chrysler recommends and it cost slightly over $20 per gallon. Of course you can go to to an auto-parts store and get 2.5 gallons of BlueDEF for $15 (for my zip code.) That will save you over $100 per fill up on the DEF tank. What quality or brand of DEF is a personnel choice and I priced the recommend stuff. But, if you go the auto-parts store route then its less than $60 per fillup. You will have some left over after each fill up and I don't know how long this stuff stays fresh after the seal has been broken and if the last 2 gallons will hold, then again you may get away with 7.5 gallons if you plan it right...

Whatever price is chosen based on brand of DEF should be included in the Diesel cost to operate. Again, you can't just put fuel in the car and expect it to run if you don't fill the DEF tank. You can skip the 30,000 mile Hemi spark plugs as the service schedule for 2014 calls for 100,000 miles and it is across the board V6 and Hemi. I don't know if or how often you have to replace glow-plugs in a Diesel. I have driven a Diesel but never owned one. As far as other fluids other vehicles all have to have oil changes, bug juice, coolant, ect. The DEF is the unique fluid to the Diesel and popped the cost per mile using local fuel rates in my area to just slightly more expensive to operate.

I don't know what the OP is trying to prove as once again he has used is own personnel hypermilage and not the rates the government has published. He gave the Hemi a 12% boost of 18MPG when the EPA clearly states the average MPG is 16. For the Diesel you have to believe Chrysler's numbers for now if you are going to make a judgement.

I was almost sold on the Diesel until I read the Motortrend report and started crunching numbers for what it was going to cost to outfit a Summit with the compression engine. Then I ran the MPG versus the cost per gallon and for the Diesel with DEF and soon discovered it would not only cost me more to purchase the Diesel, but I would never break even on the purchase due to the higher cost of Diesel versus 87 octane gasoline. In fact the cost of Diesel versus gas I broke even on the two vehicles, it was the DEF that made the Diesel more expensive to operate per mile.

I suggest everyone run their own numbers, and evaluate their drive habits and requirements.
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Unread 08-19-2013, 07:33 AM   #35
hemispin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken-G View Post
I don't know what the OP is trying to prove....
It's not so much that I'm trying to prove something, just offering a little help. Take it or leave it. I never claimed my calculations were perfect (in fact I pointed out that they are not perfect), or that anyone was "wrong" or anything like that.
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Unread 08-19-2013, 09:51 AM   #36
jaje
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One purchase where the Diesel will save you is where the OEM doesn't upcharge you too much (look at the G class Benz SUV which comes standard with the BlueTec) versus the Ram 2500 which is the worst (that Cummins motor is not very fuel efficient when driven like a normal car).

Then you have to take into account that diesel powered cars have a higher resale value than their gas counterparts.

Next up is EPA ratings were made to test emissions and they tacked on fuel economy. The runs are at 43 mph which is the average speed and ~ 20 mph and add resistance to the dyno for weight and drag. This is why gas powered cars often don't get anywhere near the EPA rated mpg #s but on the contrary why diesel cars get EPA or better without having to baby the throttle pedal. Ford is in trouble with its Cmax as they used adjusted ratings from the Fusion and didn't even use EPA testing - 47 mpg highway was downgraded to 40 mpg. Or where Ford's Ecoboost engines if they don't need any power get as advertised EPA ratings but if you let those turbos spool up it is as thirsty as a big engine. The EPA tests don't show this well b/c their dynometer driving is smooth and light acceleration with a few stops here and there for the "city" cycle.

Then if you get gas with E10 / E15 you will get even worse mpg as ethanol has 25% less energy density than gas per gallon - where as gas has 25% less energy density than diesel.

http://www.dieselforum.org/news/new-...oline-vehicles
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Unread 08-19-2013, 10:59 AM   #37
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Can't believe you guys are jumping all over him like he has a hidden agenda. He just tried to provide help, if you don't like his numbers don't use them.
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Unread 08-19-2013, 11:23 AM   #38
Kev M
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For the record, I hope no-one (especially Hemi) thought I was jumping on him. I just pointed out a small bias (we all have em) and wanted to correct the numbers slightly for that inconsistency.

Stats are rarely perfectly applicable to a given portion of the sample, but they're still good ways to analyze the costs and benefits. I appreciate him taking the time.
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Unread 08-22-2013, 06:54 AM   #39
Ken-G
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philculp View Post
Can't believe you guys are jumping all over him like he has a hidden agenda. He just tried to provide help, if you don't like his numbers don't use them.
If hemi felt like I jumped on him personally, then my apologies. However, I do disagree with his formulation of cost benefit not including the cost of DEF (what ever brand you wish to use) and using mileage that is 15% higher than epa standards for the V8.

It's absolutely great that hemi is getting such super mileage out of his WK2, but I believe he is generally the exception and not the standard. On one of the same sites he posted as 'proof' of his own mileage you see Hemi powered WK2s also averaging 15 mpg. Maybe for hemi this would be his cost but I am betting for the rest of us it would be much different.

I think I have beat DEF to death!

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Unread 08-23-2013, 08:32 AM   #40
jaje
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Towing will make quite a difference as diesels get ~ 50% better mpg than an equivalent gas engine as they make all their torque at several thousand less RPM needing less fuel over the same time period to do the same workload.
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Unread 08-28-2013, 03:53 PM   #41
10Xk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaje
One purchase where the Diesel will save you is where the OEM doesn't upcharge you too much (look at the G class Benz SUV which comes standard with the BlueTec) versus the Ram 2500 which is the worst (that Cummins motor is not very fuel efficient when driven like a normal car).

Then you have to take into account that diesel powered cars have a higher resale value than their gas counterparts.

Next up is EPA ratings were made to test emissions and they tacked on fuel economy. The runs are at 43 mph which is the average speed and ~ 20 mph and add resistance to the dyno for weight and drag. This is why gas powered cars often don't get anywhere near the EPA rated mpg #s but on the contrary why diesel cars get EPA or better without having to baby the throttle pedal. Ford is in trouble with its Cmax as they used adjusted ratings from the Fusion and didn't even use EPA testing - 47 mpg highway was downgraded to 40 mpg. Or where Ford's Ecoboost engines if they don't need any power get as advertised EPA ratings but if you let those turbos spool up it is as thirsty as a big engine. The EPA tests don't show this well b/c their dynometer driving is smooth and light acceleration with a few stops here and there for the "city" cycle.

Then if you get gas with E10 / E15 you will get even worse mpg as ethanol has 25% less energy density than gas per gallon - where as gas has 25% less energy density than diesel.

http://www.dieselforum.org/news/new-...oline-vehicles
G class $110k and comes with a gas motor, moves people around town.

Ram HD with a 6.7l loaded dually $65k, moves the town. I don't see what your getting at???

Resale value is based on purchasing a option which is on the average $4-6k for the engine alone so it should be worth more in resale value.

Towing, it's a midsize SUV. The engine plays a small part, it put the weight in motion. length of wheel base, vehicle weight, brakes, suspension are more important. if you cant control it you shouldn't move it (this goes for any vehicle). It has not met the SAE J2807 standard for calculating towing capacity. Toyota has and their numbers dropped upon evaluation.

OP: good analysis, Hemi spark plugs are now 100k change interval.
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