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Unread 11-24-2011, 10:14 AM   #31
tjkj2002
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2002 KJ Liberty 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Colorado
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Well around here in CO toy's don't fair to well,lot's of balljoints,tie rod ends,and leaks and not to mention that costly timing belt and newer ones require that expensive synthetic 0w-20 oil.As long as the Jeep does not have the 4slow in it(leak prone) for the most part Jeeps are pretty trouble free.

Get a Jeep without all the techno gizmo's in it and it will outlast most,just like any vehicle those little gadgets is what have the most issues and are really not needed.


If your looking for who has the most techno gadgets,no noise,and all that junk a Jeep is most likely not for you.I look at the GC's as the Jeepers 2nd vehicle since his other trail Jeep has now been modded and no longer street legal.

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Unread 11-24-2011, 11:05 AM   #32
fmcgirt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkj2002 View Post
Well around here in CO toy's don't fair to well,lot's of balljoints,tie rod ends,and leaks and not to mention that costly timing belt and newer ones require that expensive synthetic 0w-20 oil.As long as the Jeep does not have the 4slow in it(leak prone) for the most part Jeeps are pretty trouble free.

Get a Jeep without all the techno gizmo's in it and it will outlast most,just like any vehicle those little gadgets is what have the most issues and are really not needed.


If your looking for who has the most techno gadgets,no noise,and all that junk a Jeep is most likely not for you.I look at the GC's as the Jeepers 2nd vehicle since his other trail Jeep has now been modded and no longer street legal.
And it is also a question of what do you buy if you want to go off road in a SUV type vehicle even a little bit and have a decent chance of getting home? In my opinion you need at the least the availability of protection packages such as skid plates, decent wheels and tires, two speed, geared transfer cases, available axle ratios, etc. These days there aren't too many choices other than Jeep that I know of: Dodge Durango, Toyota 4Runner, Chevy/GMC Tahoe/Yukon, Ford Expedition, Nissan Pathfinder and maybe a couple more models. I don't think even Mitsubishi has such a vehicle anymore. You can spend a lot more money on Range Rover, Land Cruiser and the Lexus Land Cruiser equivalent but that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

So when I looked at all the choices knowing we wanted to go off road - perhaps not to the same extent we used to 20 years ago - It came down to either Jeep or Toyota because of the smaller apparent size of these vehicles and so we wound up once again with a Jeep. If it becomes too much of a pain then I expect we will then trade it or sell it and do something else. It does have a bunch of "junk" on it that I have come to enjoy and use daily and so far has held up well with the exception of the keyless entry problem.
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Unread 11-24-2011, 01:19 PM   #33
cville4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toradora View Post
cville4,

New member here. Really appreciate this post as I've been considering a T4R vs. JGC as well. I can absolutely echo the sentiment that the Jeep community seems to be on a different level, having done some extensive lurking on a few forum sites. Ha!

In any case, have you thought about particular trim levels? The JGC offers an entirely different level of amenities past the T4R Limited, but on the other hand the Toyota offers better reliability, a body-on-frame, and aftermarket support.

Ugh, tough choice - and I know I'm not helping; but just wanted to let you know that you weren't alone with the endless internal debates and was interested in what you eventually chose. Good luck!

PS. I know this may not apply to your situation since time off the road & sales is a very, very bad thing, but as far as I know - Toyota doesn't offer a lifetime warranty.

Thanks man, appreciate the comments. Now the decision gets that much tougher....via my USAA membership I was offered a Limited edition with tow package (msrp $40,700) for $34,800; about 6k savings overall. Originally I was looking at the Laredo X as I didn't want many options---only sunroof, leather seats and tow package. Well, after adding those features I'm basically at the Limited price level, hence I'm looking at that plus the fact that the Limited and up trims offer beige interior, which I much prefer over the black/dark graystone. Anyway, according to truecar this is basically an insane deal. We'll see...

Last edited by cville4; 11-24-2011 at 01:40 PM..
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Unread 11-24-2011, 04:17 PM   #34
WvTaco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkj2002 View Post
Well around here in CO toy's don't fair to well,lot's of balljoints,tie rod ends,and leaks and not to mention that costly timing belt and newer ones require that expensive synthetic 0w-20 oil.As long as the Jeep does not have the 4slow in it(leak prone) for the most part Jeeps are pretty trouble free.

Get a Jeep without all the techno gizmo's in it and it will outlast most,just like any vehicle those little gadgets is what have the most issues and are really not needed.


If your looking for who has the most techno gadgets,no noise,and all that junk a Jeep is most likely not for you.I look at the GC's as the Jeepers 2nd vehicle since his other trail Jeep has now been modded and no longer street legal.
the 1gr 4.0 toyota motor has a chain not a belt. and has alot more power then the v6 wk2, hell it would give the hemi a run for its money. 7.9 0-60 in a limited 4runner, 7.3 in a overland hemi)
i have over 500000 miles between three toyota pickups and have only had to replace tie rods after 200k, never did bearings or ball joints. the 98 tacoma,(300k and never opened the valve cover) i had did have a leaky p.s rack. but my 09 4x4 trd sport, i traded for the wk2 had less glitches in its 50k,than i have had in my wk2 has. gas mileage between the two is close.

my lifetime ave in the v6 taco was 19.39mpg with a low of 13.2mpg towing a little over 5k lbs over a 300 mile trip. and 22.2mpg best.( i think the duel vvti 4.0 in the runner will get 2mpg better)

now my wk2 over 10k miles avg is 19.85mpg with a low of 17.8mpg and a high of 26mpg. ( both mainly city)

now the jeep is alot nicer than the 09 toyota tacoma ( almost the same as 4 runner)
but i have only had to call a wrecker once in all my days of over 1000000 logged miles, blew a tranny seal in a 97 es300

summary drive them both.
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Unread 11-25-2011, 09:50 AM   #35
azgurney
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My problem with the 4runner is the engine has little torque at lower rpms and needs to be reved high to get it to move, then it sounds like crap. Also unless you get the limited 4runner you can not get full time 4x4, auto climate controls and many more features. The 4runner is also very pricey for what you get compared to the Jeep. I drove 3 new 4runners and went away disappointed with the power and features after each test drive. The trail edition looks nice but are hard to find, overpriced and not enough features (auto temp, full time 4x4, memory seats etc.) for me.
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Unread 11-25-2011, 04:53 PM   #36
Snipe315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cville4 View Post
That's great snipe....how would you compare it overall to your 4runner in terms of how it drives? (I've read/heard that the GC is like driving a luxury sedan compared to the truck like feel of the 4runner) My 4runner has the same exhaust smell (smells like rotten eggs), which is most noticeable during warmer months with the windows down. Anyway, can't wait to test drive it tomorrow...also will be test driving a Touareg but seriously doubt I'll consider that given the sticker price and given the same reliability concerns.
My 4Runner had the X-REAS sport suspension system in it so it took corners great (for an SUV).

But my 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee blows it away!
I was really surprised by how much better the WK2 handles compared to my 4Runner. Corners I could take at 60Mph (max) in my 4Runner are now a breeze to take at 70+. I'm sure the Air Suspension has something to do with that.

Passing Power on the highway is also significantly better.

The interior quality and design are lightyears ahead of the 4Runner as well. And there is more room front, side, and back compared to the 4Runner.
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Unread 11-25-2011, 05:22 PM   #37
rockspyder
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Originally Posted by lezavw90 View Post
And now in the news they have recalled 3.6l engines due to debris from manufacturing process that may cause the engines to seize

http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/saf-sec-sur/...f=SearchResult
Wow. According to that article, Chrysler is recalling ... 30 units. 'Course I don't know if that means cars, or individual parts.
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Unread 11-25-2011, 06:47 PM   #38
cville4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snipe315 View Post
My 4Runner had the X-REAS sport suspension system in it so it took corners great (for an SUV).

But my 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee blows it away!
I was really surprised by how much better the WK2 handles compared to my 4Runner. Corners I could take at 60Mph (max) in my 4Runner are now a breeze to take at 70+. I'm sure the Air Suspension has something to do with that.

Passing Power on the highway is also significantly better.

The interior quality and design are lightyears ahead of the 4Runner as well. And there is more room front, side, and back compared to the 4Runner.
Finally test drove the GC today and I was floored---wow, they have done a damn good job overall. Smooth ride, beautiful interior (felt as if I was driving a luxury European SUV) and insanely quiet. The available options amazed me as well (I scoffed at the vented front seats but they came in handy on an abnormally 70 degree, sunny day today...can only imagine their aid on a 90 degree summer day with 70% humidity). Have to disagree on passing power at 50+ mph speeds...my V6 4runner is noticeably quicker/faster but no real complaints overall. Still nervous about overall reliability but again what a great car on the surface. BTW, the additional storage buckets underneath the cargo area look like they were designed for a 6 pack with ice after a nice bike ride, day at the lake, etc. I'm not saying...just saying.
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Unread 11-25-2011, 08:03 PM   #39
rudeney
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cville4 View Post
Finally test drove the GC today and I was floored---wow, they have done a damn good job overall. Smooth ride, beautiful interior (felt as if I was driving a luxury European SUV) and insanely quiet.
For all practical purposes, you were driving a luxury European SUV - the WK2 is based on the same chassis as the new W166 Mercedes ML, developed back when Daimler-Benz owned Chrysler. Driving and handling characteristics are almost identical between the two.
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Unread 11-25-2011, 09:15 PM   #40
Mike97ZJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmcgirt View Post
And it is also a question of what do you buy if you want to go off road in a SUV type vehicle even a little bit and have a decent chance of getting home? In my opinion you need at the least the availability of protection packages such as skid plates, decent wheels and tires, two speed, geared transfer cases, available axle ratios, etc. These days there aren't too many choices other than Jeep that I know of: Dodge Durango, Toyota 4Runner, Chevy/GMC Tahoe/Yukon, Ford Expedition, Nissan Pathfinder and maybe a couple more models. I don't think even Mitsubishi has such a vehicle anymore. You can spend a lot more money on Range Rover, Land Cruiser and the Lexus Land Cruiser equivalent but that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

So when I looked at all the choices knowing we wanted to go off road - perhaps not to the same extent we used to 20 years ago - It came down to either Jeep or Toyota because of the smaller apparent size of these vehicles and so we wound up once again with a Jeep. If it becomes too much of a pain then I expect we will then trade it or sell it and do something else. It does have a bunch of "junk" on it that I have come to enjoy and use daily and so far has held up well with the exception of the keyless entry problem.
Don't forget the Nissan Xterra. I've been researching these myself lately.

They have a strong 4.0 V6 - 260HP/280TQ, body on frame, solid rear axle with leaves, available offroad package that comes with a rear locking differential among other things, good clearance even at stock height, standard 265/75/16's on the offroad package (Pro4X) and can fit up to a 285/75/16 at STOCK height (try that on a Grand Cherokee!) and are relatively simple as they don't have alot of the luxo goodies as the Jeep, and lack all the gimmicky electronic 4x4 aids that Toyota seems to love so much. And for those who like to row thier own, you can also get them with a 6 speed manual.

And they're not that expensive either....I just saw a '11 Pro4X model with a 6M with 5 miles on it for $27,096. Can you even get a base 4x4 Laredo for that?
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Unread 11-26-2011, 12:12 PM   #41
Brady12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike97ZJ

Don't forget the Nissan Xterra. I've been researching these myself lately.

They have a strong 4.0 V6 - 260HP/280TQ, body on frame, solid rear axle with leaves, available offroad package that comes with a rear locking differential among other things, good clearance even at stock height, standard 265/75/16's on the offroad package (Pro4X) and can fit up to a 285/75/16 at STOCK height (try that on a Grand Cherokee!) and are relatively simple as they don't have alot of the luxo goodies as the Jeep, and lack all the gimmicky electronic 4x4 aids that Toyota seems to love so much. And for those who like to row thier own, you can also get them with a 6 speed manual.

And they're not that expensive either....I just saw a '11 Pro4X model with a 6M with 5 miles on it for $27,096. Can you even get a base 4x4 Laredo for that?
My friend had a xterra. Horribly noisy and uncomfortable.
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Unread 11-26-2011, 01:53 PM   #42
rockspyder
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My BIL had an XTERRA, for a short while. He disliked it so much, and the gas mileage was so bad, that he traded it in after only a few months, probably at a loss. He hated it. On paper they look good. So good it would tempt me, even though I have a bias against Nissans. But in reality, not so great. at least in his opinion. 'Course, this was a few years ago, and not an '11. They could have gotten better.
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Unread 11-26-2011, 07:53 PM   #43
Cegan
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I doubt it. Buy a Jeep. Made in America *****es.
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Unread 11-26-2011, 07:56 PM   #44
Cegan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkj2002
Well around here in CO toy's don't fair to well,lot's of balljoints,tie rod ends,and leaks and not to mention that costly timing belt and newer ones require that expensive synthetic 0w-20 oil.As long as the Jeep does not have the 4slow in it(leak prone) for the most part Jeeps are pretty trouble free.

Get a Jeep without all the techno gizmo's in it and it will outlast most,just like any vehicle those little gadgets is what have the most issues and are really not needed.

If your looking for who has the most techno gadgets,no noise,and all that junk a Jeep is most likely not for you.I look at the GC's as the Jeepers 2nd vehicle since his other trail Jeep has now been modded and no longer street legal.
You sound like an idiot!
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Unread 11-26-2011, 08:34 PM   #45
tjkj2002
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Originally Posted by Cegan View Post
You sound like an idiot!
So do you.Got a point?
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