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Unread 06-02-2015, 03:26 PM   #1
440_Magnum
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If you still have fuel pump problems after TIPM recall...

Hey all, I rarely post in this forum, but I used to be pretty active on the XJ forum until my daughter took the XJ off to college. :-/ I thought I'd just share a recent experience with my wife's WK2 for y'alls information. My wife's 2011 Grand Cherokee went in about 4 months ago for the TIPM fuel pump relay failure recall. The relay had actually failed a long time ago, but I'd implemented the Vertical Visions hack to keep the car driveable (in a nutshell, power the fuel pump from the switched 12V fuse for the power outlets). The recall "fix" isn't a lot more elegant- they just splice in a big honkin old-style general purpose relay external to the TIPM (you can see the text of the Star Case which evolved into the actual recall here) Its actually more like how I think relays should be done- socketed and replaceable. But I'm not going to beat Jeep up any further about that TIPM- I'm pretty sure they know it was a POS and they should never have used little micro-relays soldered to the circuit board. Even if Cerberus was penny-pinching at the time it was designed... But that doesn't help those of us who have to live with the things.

After getting the actual recall done, there were no issues... for a whole 4 months until the fuel pump started getting intermittent again. This really hacked me off- I'd have been irritated enough if it were my car, but when it strands my wife and (worse) stalls in rush hour with her, I get really annoyed. Every time it would happen, it would be working again by the time I got there, so I knew that if I took it into the dealer again they'd just shrug and say that its working fine. And I understand that, they can't noodle around chasing intermittents very well. Fortunately, I have more time to fart around with pain-in-the-butt problems with my own cars... So I chased a few dead ends, even for a while deciding that the line driver in the PCM that pulls-down to provide ground to the relay coil when the engine is running and then lets the ground of the relay float high if the engine stalls (safety feature) was the problem. It wasn't.

By a bit of good luck and by tracing back all the wiring that the dealership would have had to touch to perform the recall (and noting that the Star Case calls for them to remove a particular female connector pin to install heat-shrink tubing) I found that if I wiggled the relay feed pink wire from the TIPM brown connector C5, I could get my test light to flicker off. And then finally to stay off. And then back on again. Then off. Aha.

When I removed the connector, there were no bad crimps or connections, so for a bit I was stumped again. FINALLY, when I got a brighter light and looked at the front face of the connector where the female contact insert is plugged into the cavity, something looked "different" from all the other pins. So I pulled the insert out of the connector block and found what's pictured below. I think the dealer tech dug it out with a claw hammer, rather than carefully pressing the release tab (remember that pink wire is 20-gauge- smaller than a toothpick). The tool marks give it away, and the internal contact spring-tab was collapsed flat so the contact was loose on the male pin from the TIPM. I bent the tab back into the correct shape, and all has been well. I do want to find out the part # for that pin and just replace it with a brand new one, though I don't want it going intermittent again in 4, 5, 6 years after I've forgotten all this :-p If anyone has access to the part number, PM me. TIPM Connector C5 (brown), pin 38, circuit F941 PWR IGN RUN/START PK/LG.

Cheers!



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Unread 06-02-2015, 03:42 PM   #2
wyat72
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Good post
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Unread 06-05-2015, 12:36 PM   #3
bluegrassguitar
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Great information!
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Unread 06-05-2015, 01:39 PM   #4
Raptor
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This is an excellent example of why Chryslers cut, hack, and graft TIPM recall should be unacceptable to all!

The only right way to fix this issue is to replace the faulty TIPM's with new redesigned units!

How many other crack dealer techs that perform substandard electrical repairs are out there??
Thousands of vehicles have been recalled....THOUSANDS!! Do you want to roll the dice and hope your service tech is competent to do this recall without any problems??

At the end of the day you don't want anyone hacking into your main wiring harness on a modern computer controlled vehicle..... It's a disaster waiting to happen!! The question is when. Next week? Next month? Next year?

I predicted problems like this would occur very recently, you can read about it here;

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f309/...ecall-3178753/
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Unread 06-08-2015, 12:40 AM   #5
HVACNY
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Nice find,but why pm the part number,keep it public so everyone else can benefit from the info.
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Unread 06-16-2015, 10:51 AM   #6
440_Magnum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HVACNY View Post
Nice find,but why pm the part number,keep it public so everyone else can benefit from the info.

Nobody's let me know if they have a P/N yet anyway... but I'd definitely update the thread after I verify that its the right part if someone does. Don't want to steer someone to a part that doesn't really do the job.

My "bend the spring back to shape" fix is holding up fine so far. The connector is made a lot like the Molex and Samtec connectors we use at the R&D lab where I work, so I'm pretty familiar with how they can be bunged up by poor handling, and what works to get them reliable again afterward. But I'd still rather have a NEW connector insert in there, just to be 100% certain.
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Unread 06-16-2015, 10:57 AM   #7
440_Magnum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor View Post
This is an excellent example of why Chryslers cut, hack, and graft TIPM recall should be unacceptable to all!

The only right way to fix this issue is to replace the faulty TIPM's with new redesigned units!

How many other crack dealer techs that perform substandard electrical repairs are out there??
Thousands of vehicles have been recalled....THOUSANDS!! Do you want to roll the dice and hope your service tech is competent to do this recall without any problems??
I have mixed feelings on that. The TIPM should be replaced with a re-design- I agree totally on that. But the problem is that they'd probably do the re-design with the relay still soldered to the TIPM board itself, and that means a tiny relay subject to the same kind of failure that the original was (contact erosion, housing deformation due to heat). The REAL answer is a physically larger TIPM that has *plug in* replaceable relays for all of the high-current functions- headlamps, wipers, fuel pump, radiator fans, etc.

The "hack job" is actually really easy to do (now that I've seen it and re-worked it myself). And it should work reliably once its all soldered and shrink-wrapped... IF the tech uses the right tool to extract the contact insert from the connector block instead of digging it out like a dog going after an armadillo under the porch.... :-/
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2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x2, 3.6 Pentastar
1999 Cherokee 2door 4x4 5-speed (daughter's)
Two big-block Mopars, Challenger SRT8, and a Ram 1500
2001 Cherokee Sport automatic 4x2 (sold)
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