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Unread 11-01-2012, 08:15 PM   #61
JG1025
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Just thought I'd weigh in. I've got a 2012 Overland Hemi that I bought in April and I love it. The car I traded for it was a 2010 Audi Q7 TDI, with the AdBlue urea filtration system. I put about 76,000 miles on the Audi and it was an exceptional car. Obviously, I do a ton of driving (mostly highway) so a diesel really made sense. It would average about 575-600 miles on one tank. I moved from New Hampshire to Florida about a year ago (just moved back North, though) and on the drive down I made it from NH to Richmond,VA without stopping for gas. As far as the urea system being inconvenient, it wasn't at all. It was changed at every oil change, which was every 15,000 miles or so. When you are running low on AdBlue, 1500 miles before the tank runs out a message would pop up saying "Refill AdBlue. No restart in 1500 miles." It gives you plenty of warning, and the only way you'd run out and go into limp-home mode would be if you were very overdue for an oil change. At least in the case of the Audi, the car will run normally even after the tank runs out, but it won't be able to start after you turn it off when you reach the destination. Yes, that happened to me once, but luckily when my AdBlue ran out I was headed to the dealer! As far as the oil changes go, they are an ordeal. In my case, they would take between 7-8 hours and cost around $400. Most of that was labor, though, because the Audi dealer charged $90/hour for labor. It is also possible to refill the AdBlue without going to the dealer. Next to the filler cap for the diesel is a separate one saying AdBlue, and the tool to open it was part of the on-board tool kit. I would average about 19mpg overall, about 25-26 on the highway.

As far as whether or not a urea system will be on US-spec GC diesels, I'm sure it will be. Even with the use of Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel Fuel, many states (California and New England, at least) require the urea system for their emissions requirements.

I won't be selling my '12 Hemi for a diesel when they arrive, as much as I'd love to. However, if the GC proves itself to be a reliable companion over its lifespan and the diesel is still on sale, there's probably a 99% chance that will be the replacement.

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Unread 11-02-2012, 08:19 AM   #62
GrootKoos
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The Diesel GC sold in the rest of the world does not use an urea system and I doubt very much if that particular engine can accommodate such a system. It is therefore fairly safe to say that the US version will also not have a urea system.

Regarding the advantages of using the diesel version above the V6 version:
1. Die diesel GC uses significantly less fuel than the V6 petrol or gasoline version
2. Die diesel GC has considerably more torque than the V6 version and even more than the Hemi version.

The only disadvantage of the diesel GC is that the engine is slightly less refined or civilised than those used in the petrol versions. The engine is even less refined than the one used in the previois generation GC.

Still, I will never trade in my diesel GC for a petrol version....
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Unread 11-02-2012, 08:56 AM   #63
77rednecktruck
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Originally Posted by GrootKoos View Post
The Diesel GC sold in the rest of the world does not use an urea system and I doubt very much if that particular engine can accommodate such a system. It is therefore fairly safe to say that the US version will also not have a urea system.

Regarding the advantages of using the diesel version above the V6 version:
1. Die diesel GC uses significantly less fuel than the V6 petrol or gasoline version
2. Die diesel GC has considerably more torque than the V6 version and even more than the Hemi version.

The only disadvantage of the diesel GC is that the engine is slightly less refined or civilised than those used in the petrol versions. The engine is even less refined than the one used in the previois generation GC.

Still, I will never trade in my diesel GC for a petrol version....
the diesel may have more torque than the hemi but it is slower. They both tow well. Gas is cheaper than diesel here in the US by 50 cents per gallon where I am at. The diesel will probably cost more than the Hemi by a few grand negating any fuel improvement of the diesel.

Diesel's and Hybrids do not save you any money over the first 10 years or so here in the US.
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Unread 11-02-2012, 09:03 AM   #64
Dave2002ti
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Originally Posted by GrootKoos View Post
The Diesel GC sold in the rest of the world does not use an urea system and I doubt very much if that particular engine can accommodate such a system. It is therefore fairly safe to say that the US version will also not have a urea system.

Regarding the advantages of using the diesel version above the V6 version:
1. Die diesel GC uses significantly less fuel than the V6 petrol or gasoline version
2. Die diesel GC has considerably more torque than the V6 version and even more than the Hemi version.

The only disadvantage of the diesel GC is that the engine is slightly less refined or civilised than those used in the petrol versions. The engine is even less refined than the one used in the previois generation GC.

Still, I will never trade in my diesel GC for a petrol version....
Unlike in the EU and the UK so far our govt has not forced us to choose the fuel or engine type we want by using tax policy to dictate to us what vehicles to buy. In the EU and UK tax policy favors diesels which why diesels are sold in such large numbers.

Sorry in the US for sale in all 50 states piss injection will probably be mandatory since CA regs are striciter than the EU's.
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Unread 11-02-2012, 12:21 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by 77rednecktruck View Post
Diesel's and Hybrids do not save you any money over the first 10 years or so here in the US.
Diesels probably not - but I wouldn't make the same claim for Hybrids. There are Hybrids that have the same MSRP as the regular models (i.e. Lincoln MKZ). They use the same grade of fuel and in case of the MKZ, the MPG-number of the Hybrid is almost twice as high as the one of the regular model.

It really depends on the individual model. I wouldn't mind driving the Diesel - but the numbers have to match. If I have to drive 30k miles/year for the next 7 years to break even, I'll opt for the HEMI.
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Unread 11-02-2012, 01:56 PM   #66
Kev M
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Originally Posted by JG1025 View Post
Just thought I'd weigh in. I've got a 2012 Overland Hemi that I bought in April and I love it. The car I traded for it was a 2010 Audi Q7 TDI, with the AdBlue urea filtration system. I put about 76,000 miles on the Audi and it was an exceptional car.

<snip>

I would average about 19mpg overall, about 25-26 on the highway.

THAT'S ALL on the diesel Audi? Not impressive, we pretty much average that (maybe 1-2 mpg lower on the highway) with our V6 GC.
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Unread 11-02-2012, 02:50 PM   #67
daniele767676
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Originally Posted by Dave2002ti View Post
Will always hate us. ANd who cares US foreign policy should be based on what is good for the US and who cares about the rest of the world. They dont care about the US so why should we worry about what they think!

The Prince of Darkness Dick Cheney if he were prez would have scared the economy into 5%+ growth in GDP for the last 16 quarters and had our friends and enemies spending way too much time changing their Depends. Instead we have Comrade Barry everyone's friend big time not good.

By the way diesels even with Bluetec emit very fine particulant matter which our EPA says causes cancer. Read the EPA studies.



Ehm... I am from Europe but actually quite like you guys....perhaps not all of you 300 million, just as much as there are quite a few of the 250 million Europeans that I don't like either....

Back to the the diesel: I come from an Audi 3.0TDI to now owning the Hemi 5.7 as I moved to the States. Hell, if I made it all the way here, I want some American Steel!

Fact 1: Fun
The fun factor of the V8 vs a V6 diesel is unquestionable, Just the noise of the 'ol fashioned pushrod Hemi and the way it angrily seeks higher revs puts a smile on my face everytime.

Fact 2: Fuel Economy
With my driving style I range netween 16-18mpg with the GC, Used to be around 30mpg with the Q7 TDI. For me fuel is so much cheaper States side vs Europe that the GC is working out cheaper in the US than the Q7 did in Europe. Still, after 1 year of ownership the joke is wearing a bit thin and I do feel a bit silly burning out so much gas when there are better alternatives

Fact 3: Performance
Torque is what you feel 90% of the time. A V8 will ultimately be faster if revved all the way. For everyday driving, the Q7 actually felt faster than the GC Hemi.

Fact 4: Emissions
Modern diesels with DPF emit less polluting gases than fuel cars. That has been documented by numerorus automotive magazines. Also consider that by using significant less fuel, emission quantities are lower too.

My personal opinion: I would not trade the V8 in my Mustang Gt for any diesel. But when it comes to luxury Sedans or SUVs, modern diesel V6 with single, twin or now even triple turbo chargers and clean technology are for me the preferred choice. Any doubt: try a bmw 535d.

Long live the US V8, but in the right gear to enjoy it!

Best,

Daniele from AL
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Unread 11-02-2012, 09:07 PM   #68
335d
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Originally Posted by Kev M View Post
THAT'S ALL on the diesel Audi? Not impressive, we pretty much average that (maybe 1-2 mpg lower on the highway) with our V6 GC.
I thought the same thing when I saw those#s. My 2011 Touareg TDI gets better than 37 mpg at 55-60 mph on the highway. Most of my fill ups are posted at fuelly. Average suburban/city=25.7 mpg during 20k miles.

The diesel JGC CRD with the zf eight speed should get close to the same #S as my Touareg. The wild card is the center diff, the qtll transfer case with clutches is no doubt less efficient than the torsen center diff in the Touareg. QTl should be about the same as the Torsen.

On the other hand the 2014 JCG will have electric steering and the zf may be more efficient than the Asin 8 speed in the Touareg.
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Unread 11-03-2012, 12:12 AM   #69
JG1025
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Originally Posted by 335d View Post
I thought the same thing when I saw those#s. My 2011 Touareg TDI gets better than 37 mpg at 55-60 mph on the highway. Most of my fill ups are posted at fuelly. Average suburban/city=25.7 mpg during 20k miles.

The diesel JGC CRD with the zf eight speed should get close to the same #S as my Touareg. The wild card is the center diff, the qtll transfer case with clutches is no doubt less efficient than the torsen center diff in the Touareg. QTl should be about the same as the Torsen.

On the other hand the 2014 JCG will have electric steering and the zf may be more efficient than the Asin 8 speed in the Touareg.
Some of it is probably due to the fact that I'm rarely traveling at 55-60 on the highway. I'm a left-laner. I did once drive my parents from Central NH to Bar Harbor, ME, which is about 275 miles. I reset the trip computer for it, and on a mixture of two-lane highway and Interstate, I averaged just under 37mpg.
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Unread 11-03-2012, 12:48 AM   #70
oH2o
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Originally Posted by GrootKoos View Post
The Diesel GC sold in the rest of the world does not use an urea system and I doubt very much if that particular engine can accommodate such a system. It is therefore fairly safe to say that the US version will also not have a urea system...
2014 WK2 diesel models for North America will definitely have the UREA system.
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Unread 11-03-2012, 11:16 AM   #71
padgett
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OK little techy here, the "diesel exhaust fluid" (solution of urea and water) is injected into the exhaust gas stream to control nitrogen oxide emissions (NOx). High compression/high combustion temperatures create NOx in gas engines (why many have EGR to control combustion temperatures). Diesels are more so.

Being added to the exhaust stream means urea injection can be retrofitted to almost any engine. Care does have to be taken in where it is injected (e.g. to avoid affecting the particuate trap) since the purpose is to use a special catalyst to break down NOx into nitrogen and water. For more than you want to know, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selecti...ytic_Reduction .

Bottom line, you could add urea injection and all of its allied pieces to any diesel engine, is no big just supect it adds a U$k or two to the price. True, it is a kludge compared to what the EPA calls "Clean Diesel Combustion" but allows a mfr to have a world design that only reduces emissions where regulations require it. (end mini rant)

ps personal opinion is that every diesel should have an EGT readout particularly if heavy loads are expected. Living in warm climates I have been driving with an eye on the temp gauge for years.


One of these is a turbo diesel.
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Unread 11-04-2012, 10:59 AM   #72
GrootKoos
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Originally Posted by Dave2002ti View Post
Unlike in the EU and the UK so far our govt has not forced us to choose the fuel or engine type we want by using tax policy to dictate to us what vehicles to buy. In the EU and UK tax policy favors diesels which why diesels are sold in such large numbers.
Where I come from diesel fuel is about 6% more expensive than petrol or gasoline and you pay a premium of at least 10 % on the price of the car when you buy it.

In spite of this more and more people are buying diesels (in my household I have three) simply because the diesel driving experience is so much better.
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Unread 11-05-2012, 03:41 PM   #73
NDSU_Bison
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The window sticker on my 2008 Grand Cherokee says the CRD option cost $1,010 over the hemi that came standard on the overland.

A ballpark estimate shows I have more than recouped those costs, assuming diesel is about 50 cents higher per gallon than gasoline. That's without adding in the cost savings for using biodiesel for roughly 1/2 of the fuel I've used. Biodiesel which has been less expensive than petrodiesel most of the past few years and was even cheaper than gasoline for a while. Plus, I get a $200 tax credit every year from the State of Oregon for using alternative fuels. (Not to mention supporting our local refinery and farmers on the other side of the state who grow canola oil for the refinery.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 77rednecktruck View Post
the diesel may have more torque than the hemi but it is slower. They both tow well. Gas is cheaper than diesel here in the US by 50 cents per gallon where I am at. The diesel will probably cost more than the Hemi by a few grand negating any fuel improvement of the diesel.

Diesel's and Hybrids do not save you any money over the first 10 years or so here in the US.
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Unread 11-05-2012, 06:54 PM   #74
padgett
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That was then. I suspect the 2014 Diesel will be a $3-$5k option (depending on what is mandatory - may not be available on Laredo).

For one thing it will need the HD 8speed, also the "diesel fluid" injection pump, tank, and special catalyst. Next it is stronger/more expensive to build than the V8, then all of those parts need to be inventoried and techs trained. And finally the EP to be gained from those who want to be first (their other car is a Prius or a Volt) will be added to the sticker.

Now those who would buy a Pentastar may be pushed into diesels (and those with may want to trade up) if the warm weather brings back head failures again.

Of course if it had been available when mine was bought, I really wanted a diesel, but have really grown to like the gas six. But then I also remember all of the years when diesel cost less than 87 PON.


One of these is a turbo diesel.
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Unread 11-05-2012, 09:38 PM   #75
335d
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I agree that the diesel option will be in the $3,500 range. SCR DPF ect is expensive.
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