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Unread 10-04-2012, 07:54 PM   #1
VinnieTheFish
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Question 2012 WK2 3.6L Misfire #2 cylinder

This afternoon the wife called me and said the CEL light came on and wanted to know what to do. She came home, I hooked up my OBD2 scanner and turns out cylinder #2 had a number of misfires (131 according to my diag report). I had noticed what sounded like a ticking sound with the window down this weekend in CA while escaping the heat, but I live in AZ so haven't really driven with the window down in a while. I thought it was kind of odd but didn't think too much of it.

Sure enough I came across this article about how Chrysler is recalling some engines of the 3.6L Pentastar that also have the ticking sound and a cylinder #2 misfire.

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2012...NEWS/120819959

Anyone else come across this lately? Have any experience with the dealer with this warranty work or advice you can give? Any other issues you've run across with a misfire on the WK2 3.6L?

To date this is the only problem we've encountered. Jeep has just over 12k miles on it and was bought in March of this year.

Thanks.

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Unread 10-04-2012, 08:29 PM   #2
ColdCase
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This topic has been discussed often here. Pretty old news.

This thread from back in August for example.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f309/...oblem-1410896/

and:

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f309/...oblem-1417357/

and:

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f309/...astar-1404911/
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Unread 10-04-2012, 09:23 PM   #3
VinnieTheFish
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Thanks yeah same issue seems like 12k miles is when this shows up. Kinda bummed but I'll see what the dealer says tomorrow when I drop it off.

Thanks.
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'14 WK2 3.6L Stone White 4x4 Laredo
'12 WK2 3.6L Steel Blue 4x2 Laredo (Mall Crawler for the wife)
'06 Ram 1500 5.7L Big Horn 4x2 *** SOLD ***
'96 ZJ 4.0L 4x4 NP242 *** SOLD @ 223k miles & still running***
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Unread 10-05-2012, 07:35 AM   #4
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They are not recalling the engines. They are repairing the affected vehicles under warranty.
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Unread 10-05-2012, 09:39 AM   #5
mort81
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I had the same problem. Just got my vehicle back this week. Replaced the head last week and I went and picked it up and the jeep ran worse then before. Took it back and they ordered another head and replaced the one they just put on. Picked it up Tuesday and so far no problems. I did try to get a discount on a tire an wheel package for my trouble but they didn't budge on that.
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Unread 10-05-2012, 11:19 AM   #6
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At the dealership today (Airpark Dodge is Scottsdale, AZ) and I am not happy with the level of customer service surrounding this issue. I printed out my error code using my own ODB2 scanner, printed out the auto week press release and unfortunate felt like the dealership was trying to play dumb about this. He first said that I a flash is required before they even consider replacing the head which is complete bull**** in my opinion. Next they won't cover the rental car and have no loaners. They said if I want a rental car it's my dime.

I called into Chrysler and opened a case number for the issue and unfortunately they said the same thing. They are escalating the issue up for approval on the rental car but I feel like with the way I'm being treated I should get a lawyer involved. I told them I don't want to have to come back 4-5 times to get this resolved when Chrysler has already admitted this is a manufacturing defect.

Really wishing I had not sold my Audi A5 as the service department customer service is night and day difference. Funny I've had a ZJ with 225k miles, 06 Ram 1500 w/ 87k miles and not one problem like this.

I have a feeling this might be the last Chrysler vehicle I ever buy. Very very disappointed customer.
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'12 WK2 3.6L Steel Blue 4x2 Laredo (Mall Crawler for the wife)
'06 Ram 1500 5.7L Big Horn 4x2 *** SOLD ***
'96 ZJ 4.0L 4x4 NP242 *** SOLD @ 223k miles & still running***
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Unread 10-05-2012, 11:39 AM   #7
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In my experience with dealers the service writers always say they have never seen this problem before. Once a tech looks at it if you have the ticking and the code they will know it needs a new head and order it.
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Unread 10-05-2012, 09:12 PM   #8
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Dealership called and said they applied TSB 18-050-11, took it for a test drive and the tech can no longer hear the knocking sound.

I come in to pickup the jeep, turned it in for the Service Advisor and showed him it's still there (sounds like a Diesel engine on drivers side). He tells me his hands are tied and can't replace the cylinder head until the CEL comes back on. I go home, hook up my OBD2 and I see the DTC was reset 10 miles ago but it's already registering 300+ misfire counts but no CEL. I drive around a bit and now over 3500+ misfires on cylinder #2 but to CEL yet.

Needless to say I'm not happy with the way this is being handled and will be back again tomorrow with my laptop & OBD2 in tow.

Anyone know what this new TSB does and what misfire count the CEL should com on again at?

If need be I can upload there report here once I get home.

Edit -- Here's the data from my OBD2. Your thoughts?
obd2_after_33miles.jpg  
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'14 WK2 3.6L Stone White 4x4 Laredo
'12 WK2 3.6L Steel Blue 4x2 Laredo (Mall Crawler for the wife)
'06 Ram 1500 5.7L Big Horn 4x2 *** SOLD ***
'96 ZJ 4.0L 4x4 NP242 *** SOLD @ 223k miles & still running***
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Unread 10-06-2012, 07:40 AM   #9
mort81
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My Jeep didn't show any signs of a misfire when I took it in the first time with the exception of the CEL. The first time they updated the computer or whatever it is they do. 2 weeks later CEL came back on and still no ticking or signs of a misfire. Took it back in and they said cylinder head needed replaced. Dealership ordered the part and I took it in 4 days later for the replacement. Both the dealership and Chrysler would not give me a rental. The replaced the head and I picked it up. Wasn't even 15 miles from the dealership when I noticed the ticking and a very rough idle. Called the dealership and took it back the next day. They looked at it and said the new head was bad. Ordered another head but this time they gave me a rental to drive until mine was ready. Picked up my Jeep earlier this week and so far no problems. I am just surprised their is not a recall for this issue. My dealership said they have had quite a few vehicles with the Pennstar engine come back with this problem. Even enterprise rent a car said some of their vehicles have had the same problem.
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Unread 10-06-2012, 02:37 PM   #10
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CEL just came back on at 13042 miles. When I dropped it off at the dealership it was at 13001, picked it up at 13007.

Back to the dealership.
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'14 WK2 3.6L Stone White 4x4 Laredo
'12 WK2 3.6L Steel Blue 4x2 Laredo (Mall Crawler for the wife)
'06 Ram 1500 5.7L Big Horn 4x2 *** SOLD ***
'96 ZJ 4.0L 4x4 NP242 *** SOLD @ 223k miles & still running***
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Unread 10-06-2012, 03:42 PM   #11
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Vinnie,

Overnight FedEx or send certified mail a letter to Sergio Marchionne and all members of the Chrysler Board of Directors stating all of the details above. Copy your state Attorney General as well as the owner and the service manager of the servicing dealer. Politely but firmly state your case, say you want to know when and how your vehicle will be permanently fixed or you want the vehicle replaced. Print threads from this forum showing you aren't the only one with this issue. Chrysler will show a renewed interest in your case.

Good luck. Keep us posted.

Board of Directors can be found here:
http://www.chryslergroupllc.com/comp...Directors.aspx


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Auburn Hills, MI 48326
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Unread 10-06-2012, 05:49 PM   #12
VinnieTheFish
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Called the dealership (Airpark Dodge in Scottsdale, AZ) and spoke to the service manager. Explained my case and history along with my displeasure with the way this issue is being handled. In the same conversation the Service Manager stated what the Tech performed was the correct procedure & then later said they have been replacing a lot of the cylinder heads as this is a very common issue. I asked how many times has the flash update resolved this issue if it's that common (actual numbers) .... Dead silence then quickly changed the subject.

She stated she would be calling Chrysler first thing Monday in the morning for me, but I still have to bring the vehicle down so they can read the code. I informed her I could easily email the OBD2 diagnostic report and she was not interested in the data. I also informed her i was very displeased with the troubleshooting effort the certified Chrysler Mechanic performed on the vehicle as I was able to clearly identify the cylinder #2 misfire after letting the car come up to operating temperature and already found 350+ misfires after the short drive from the dealership to my home. Once again dead silence on the phone.

I was also informed that cylinder heads have been taking up to 6 weeks with some customers to come in and in all cases Chrysler was not reimbursing the cost of a rental car for any of the warranty repairs they have performed. In all cases they informed the customer that (and I want to quote her exact words) "that the damage had already been done and it was ok to continue to drive the vehicle with the misfire situation/CEL. We had one customer that had to wait as long as 6 weeks driving in this condition and it did not harm their vehicle."

I informed her that I did not wish to treat this vehicle as though it was disposable after 36k miles and to continue to drive the vehicle could drastically shorten the lifespan of the engine and cause an unintended failure after the warranty period expired. This approach was not acceptable to me and with our last 2 vehicles (2010 Audi A3 & 2012 Audi A5) the customer was told "don't worry we'll fix it for you no matter how long it takes." (North Scottsdale Audi service department). When I brought the vehicle in for an oil change/maintenance if there was a TSB or something that needed to be fixed I didn't have to request it. When they fixed a transmission issue under warranty repair they stood by their work by extending the vehicle warranty until 100k miles. They took care of it and always offered a free loaner car with no exception even when one of the vehicle was purchased from a different dealership. I always felt like they valued my business and used this as a sales tool for future purchases.

It's hard for me to imagine that similar priced vehicles like this have a huge difference in customer service from their service department.

I'm at a loss here as I have a feeling if this issue is this prevalent amongst the ubiquitous Pentastar V6 if resale values for the 2012 models are going to be very low in the near future. I'm almost considering dumping the vehicle and taking a loss so that I don't have to deal with the failures down the road. Our plan was to keep this vehicle for a very long time like my ZJ as I used to tell everyone about their reliability, but given this situation I'm having doubts about the longevity of the vehicle I purchased or any future business with Chrysler or with Airpark Dodge in general.
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'14 WK2 3.6L Stone White 4x4 Laredo
'12 WK2 3.6L Steel Blue 4x2 Laredo (Mall Crawler for the wife)
'06 Ram 1500 5.7L Big Horn 4x2 *** SOLD ***
'96 ZJ 4.0L 4x4 NP242 *** SOLD @ 223k miles & still running***
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Unread 10-06-2012, 06:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnieTheFish
Dealership called and said they applied TSB 18-050-11, took it for a test drive and the tech can no longer hear the knocking sound.

I come in to pickup the jeep, turned it in for the Service Advisor and showed him it's still there (sounds like a Diesel engine on drivers side). He tells me his hands are tied and can't replace the cylinder head until the CEL comes back on. I go home, hook up my OBD2 and I see the DTC was reset 10 miles ago but it's already registering 300+ misfire counts but no CEL. I drive around a bit and now over 3500+ misfires on cylinder #2 but to CEL yet.

Needless to say I'm not happy with the way this is being handled and will be back again tomorrow with my laptop & OBD2 in tow.

Anyone know what this new TSB does and what misfire count the CEL should com on again at?

If need be I can upload there report here once I get home.

Edit -- Here's the data from my OBD2. Your thoughts?
Ok, I have 2 misfires in my log on #2 none for the others for a 5 minute drive. No CEL but also just 6500 miles on it. Should I be worried to be one of the next?
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Unread 10-06-2012, 09:44 PM   #14
RB145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnieTheFish View Post
Called the dealership (Airpark Dodge in Scottsdale, AZ) and spoke to the service manager. Explained my case and history along with my displeasure with the way this issue is being handled. In the same conversation the Service Manager stated what the Tech performed was the correct procedure & then later said they have been replacing a lot of the cylinder heads as this is a very common issue. I asked how many times has the flash update resolved this issue if it's that common (actual numbers) .... Dead silence then quickly changed the subject.

She stated she would be calling Chrysler first thing Monday in the morning for me, but I still have to bring the vehicle down so they can read the code. I informed her I could easily email the OBD2 diagnostic report and she was not interested in the data. I also informed her i was very displeased with the troubleshooting effort the certified Chrysler Mechanic performed on the vehicle as I was able to clearly identify the cylinder #2 misfire after letting the car come up to operating temperature and already found 350+ misfires after the short drive from the dealership to my home. Once again dead silence on the phone.

I was also informed that cylinder heads have been taking up to 6 weeks with some customers to come in and in all cases Chrysler was not reimbursing the cost of a rental car for any of the warranty repairs they have performed. In all cases they informed the customer that (and I want to quote her exact words) "that the damage had already been done and it was ok to continue to drive the vehicle with the misfire situation/CEL. We had one customer that had to wait as long as 6 weeks driving in this condition and it did not harm their vehicle."

I informed her that I did not wish to treat this vehicle as though it was disposable after 36k miles and to continue to drive the vehicle could drastically shorten the lifespan of the engine and cause an unintended failure after the warranty period expired. This approach was not acceptable to me and with our last 2 vehicles (2010 Audi A3 & 2012 Audi A5) the customer was told "don't worry we'll fix it for you no matter how long it takes." (North Scottsdale Audi service department). When I brought the vehicle in for an oil change/maintenance if there was a TSB or something that needed to be fixed I didn't have to request it. When they fixed a transmission issue under warranty repair they stood by their work by extending the vehicle warranty until 100k miles. They took care of it and always offered a free loaner car with no exception even when one of the vehicle was purchased from a different dealership. I always felt like they valued my business and used this as a sales tool for future purchases.

It's hard for me to imagine that similar priced vehicles like this have a huge difference in customer service from their service department.

I'm at a loss here as I have a feeling if this issue is this prevalent amongst the ubiquitous Pentastar V6 if resale values for the 2012 models are going to be very low in the near future. I'm almost considering dumping the vehicle and taking a loss so that I don't have to deal with the failures down the road. Our plan was to keep this vehicle for a very long time like my ZJ as I used to tell everyone about their reliability, but given this situation I'm having doubts about the longevity of the vehicle I purchased or any future business with Chrysler or with Airpark Dodge in general.
Should of asked the service manager if this is so common why didn't they seem to know anything about it when you first brought it in. As far as the troubleshooting they are probably just following what chrysler tells them to do. They might not pay for the head if the dealer just does that first without performing the tsb.
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Unread 10-07-2012, 07:01 PM   #15
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TSB 18-050-11 seems to be generic, from Nov '11, and covers 13 different error codes. See http://www.wk2jeeps.com/tsb/tsb_wk2_1805011.pdf

One of these is a turbo diesel.
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