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Unread 11-15-2011, 09:33 AM   #1
lezavw90
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2012 Rear Seats

Do the rear seats on the 2012's recline slightly? We currently have a 09 Tacoma doublecab Trd we have a 20 month and 3 month old. The car seats currently are side by side but when we have to turn the youngest ones seat to face forward it'll have to go behind the drivers seat, and the driver seat will have to be pushed forward to far to drive.

With that said, we are looking for a new vehicle, we've narrowed it down between the 4runner, Grand Cherokee, and the Explorer. I have measured the back seats of them all and the explorer and the Cherokee are pretty much the same dimensions as the Tacoma. When I was at the Toyota dealer on the weekend I was able to put the car seat in the back of the 4runner. The 4runner back seats have about 3 more inches from the front of the back seat to the back of the front seat (this was measured with the front seat in a comfortable driving position) than the Cherokee and Explorer (both are about the same as each other).

As I was putting the seat in I noticed that you could recline the rear seats about 15 degrees. That much recline I was able to move the car seat back 2 more inches.

Long story for a short answer, lol. Options/price I really want to love the Grand Cherokee, but there's no way we can justify selling the Tacoma for a vehicle with the same rear seat dimensions. And don't start posting factory rear seat dimensions lol, does anyone actually know how they measure? lol. On Toyota's website the 4runner and Tacoma are the same rear leg room, but in reality the 4runner is almost 4 inches bigger.

Thanks in advance.

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Unread 11-15-2011, 10:28 AM   #2
rockspyder
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Rear seats recline.

Wow! You sound almost exactly like me and my wife when we started looking. I wanted a Tacoma, but our only child is old enough that we don't have to have a rear-facing seat. And we're not likely to have another. BUT, my wife flatly refused to drive a pick-up, and she is more attached to Jeeps than I am, I think. We started out thinking Explorer, JGC, or 4Runner. After a lot of research, the Explorer dropped off the list because the vehicle needed to actually be capable of off-roading. Which left the 4Runner and JGC. To be honest, between those two, for our purposes, there really wasn't a clear winner. In driving both (on-road) she liked both equally. Both have reclining rear seats (although it MAY be that the 4R reclines a little more). Both very capable off-road systems (particularly if you go to the Quadra-Trac II on the JGC). Completely different frame philosophies, though. 4R is still body on truck frame (actually a Tacoma frame).

What it ended up coming down to was price. We couldn't track down a 4R on a lot that was within our price range. Whereas we could get an excellent deal on a JGC, and ended up ordering the JGC.

To be honest, though, after sitting in the back of both, I think the 4R has just a little more leg-room in the rear.
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Unread 11-15-2011, 10:37 AM   #3
lezavw90
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Thanks for the reply. Brand loyalty is playing a big factor, our Tacoma has been the best vehicle we've owned. I've measured all 3 vehicles (measured based on my first post, so for different height people the measurement would be different) The 4runner is about 2-3 inches bigger than the JGC. I think Toyota went with more legroom and less rear cargo area, also the wheelbase is shorter but overall it's seems bigger.

With the JGC rear seats being able to recline I think I can get the extra room for the car seats.

I'm mostly torn between the 2 because of options and luxuries. The 4runner seems to be lacking on the things the JGC has.
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Unread 11-15-2011, 10:42 AM   #4
MI_Limited
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Our 2011 has the rear reclining seats and they're great for comfort, as well as allowing for a little extra room for carseats. Our little one is still rear-facing, but when it's time to rotate the seat, it'll certainly help give a little more room for the driver and passenger seats to stay farther back. The size of that back seat was a big selling point for us, especially considering our other vehicle is a 2000 Cherokee Sport.
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Unread 11-15-2011, 11:36 AM   #5
ColdCase
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If you like the JGC, the Dodge Duango is basically the same car with a longer wheelbase and perhaps more rear leg room (I dunno for sure). The Durango is longer, so more difficult to get into tight places, but does have more storage capacity than the JGC. One of the best things about the JGC rear seat is the nearly flat floor, which makes hauling three adults acceptable. Both sides of the 60/40 rear seat reclines independently.
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Unread 11-16-2011, 10:07 PM   #6
rudeney
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There are several things that had me choose the GC over the 4Runner. First of all, the 4Runner is still based on converting a full-frame truck design to an SUV, where the GC was designed and built from the ground-up to be the vehicle that it is. The 4Runner has a much more shallow floor pan, so the distance between the floor and roof is shorter, making the seating position more car-like with your legs outstretched. In an SUV, I prefer a more upright seating position. Also, the GC is much more refined on the road than the 4Runner. If you choose an AWD/4WD model, you also get a much more sophisticated system than what is offered in the 4Runner.
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Unread 11-16-2011, 10:17 PM   #7
Brady12
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When I bought my jgc it came down to it and a limited 4runner. I think you get more for your money with the jeep. I love my hemi. The 4runner feels too much like a truck. Jgc feels like a sports car compared to it. Also, I could not stand the t4r gauges, the center floating gauge gave me a headache. Both are nice vehicles, I just liked the jeep more and am happy w my purchase a year later.
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Unread 11-16-2011, 10:46 PM   #8
roket10r
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The Grand Cherokee does have reclining rear seats and also "heated rear seats" available.This is also based on the Mercedes SUV ,mine handles and drives as well as the Mercedes plus we got the Hemi ! My wife and I looked @ both the Mercedes M-450L & the Grand Cherokee Overland Summit.My wife liked the Leather and options on the Grand Cherokee the best.Grab a Jeep and never look back!!!
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Unread 11-17-2011, 10:06 AM   #9
lezavw90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudeney View Post
There are several things that had me choose the GC over the 4Runner. First of all, the 4Runner is still based on converting a full-frame truck design to an SUV, where the GC was designed and built from the ground-up to be the vehicle that it is. The 4Runner has a much more shallow floor pan, so the distance between the floor and roof is shorter, making the seating position more car-like with your legs outstretched. In an SUV, I prefer a more upright seating position. Also, the GC is much more refined on the road than the 4Runner. If you choose an AWD/4WD model, you also get a much more sophisticated system than what is offered in the 4Runner.
Did you test this generation 4runner? 2010-2012? The shallow floor plan was a complaint about the previous generation 4runner. Teh new one you is quite a bit different. Also the awd/4wd systems are almost identical in function, they just have different names where Jeep calls it Quadra Trac or also Quadra Drive while Toyota calls it Atrac. I can say from my experience with our Tacoma that Atrac works well.

I understand the body on frame thing and that doesn't bother me, the ride doesn't bother me either. I have yet to test drive a JGC.

So let me ask another question and get this thread a little off topic. What were the determing factors on your purchase of a JGC? How reliable have you found the vehicle so far. For me brand loyalty plays a part in the purchase and I have owned Toyotas and have many friends own Toyotas, and we've all had zero problems. I don't know anyone with a Jeep, so my only experience is looking up test reviews and places like consumer reports. There was some interesting numbers there. the JGC got quite a high road test score but the reliabilty over the last 10 years was ranked 16% below average. While the 4runner had a lower road test score but was ranked 46% above average for reliabilty. That's an absolutely massive difference. Did the older JGC's have issues?

When it comes down to it I'm going to have to test drive them both and our decision will be based on what suits our family better.
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Unread 11-17-2011, 10:28 AM   #10
BManz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lezavw90 View Post
--the JGC got quite a high road test score but the reliabilty over the last 10 years was ranked 16% below average--I have yet to test drive a JGC.
You cannot compare an old design to a completely brand new design. The Hemi and 545RFE are highly reliable, if you go with the V8 option. Consider that the WK2 chassis is also going to be the basis for one of Mercedes' premium SUVs, I would expect it had a more thorough QCQA. Driving one is what will win you over if you have to drive a lot. I have had many premium SUVs, some bigger and some smaller than the current WK2 Grand, but the new Grand is overwhelmingly my favorite and the off-road cred makes it an even better proposition for me. Drive a few different Grands, Laredo, Limited, Overland V6 and V8 as there is a different "feel" for each.
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Unread 11-17-2011, 10:56 AM   #11
nathantw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lezavw90 View Post
calls it Quadra Trac or also Quadra Drive while Toyota calls it Atrac. I can say from my experience with our Tacoma that Atrac works well.

...<snip>
So let me ask another question and get this thread a little off topic. What were the determing factors on your purchase of a JGC? How reliable have you found the vehicle so far. For me brand loyalty plays a part in the purchase and I have owned Toyotas and have many friends own Toyotas, and we've all had zero problems. I don't know anyone with a Jeep, so my only experience is looking up test reviews and places like consumer reports.
Interesting. Does Sony know this? Atrac was their compression scheme for their Minidiscs.

As for reliability, I had a 2001 Laredo and if I hadn't rolled it last month I'd still be driving it. It had 188,300 miles on the odometer. The truck only left me stranded once, in a parking garage and it was because a sensor had gone out. I'd say that was a pretty reliable vehicle.
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Unread 11-17-2011, 11:29 AM   #12
ColdCase
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lezavw90 View Post
Did you test this generation 4runner? 2010-2012? the awd/4wd systems are almost identical in function, they just have different names where Jeep calls it Quadra Trac or also Quadra Drive while Toyota calls it Atrac.
I hate to burst your bubble but the ATRAC is just a common brake traction control with a Toyota name and software. The Tacoma ATRAC system (without low range engaged) and the Jeep base QT I are functionally the same, the same as a lot of "AWD" systems. The Jeep traction software is arguably better, certainly work better of road, but both are OK. ATRAC shuts off above 30 mph or so, I think, another down side.

Jeep's QT II is functionally much better than either ATRAC or QT I in very low traction hills or hilly off camber conditions because the center dif is not open and therefore provides more torque to the wheel with traction (not as much used up by heating brakes). You can lock both the QT II and ATRAC transfer case if you want a low range.

The QD system is even better, especially on hills, as the rear dif is not open.
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Unread 11-17-2011, 09:08 PM   #13
rudeney
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Originally Posted by lezavw90 View Post
Did you test this generation 4runner? 2010-2012? The shallow floor plan was a complaint about the previous generation 4runner. Teh new one you is quite a bit different.
Yes, we did, and we drove the Lexus GX. Both still felt very "short" inside with limited headroom, especially for me (6'3" with a tall torso). The GJC fits me very well.

Quote:
Also the awd/4wd systems are almost identical in function, they just have different names where Jeep calls it Quadra Trac or also Quadra Drive while Toyota calls it Atrac. I can say from my experience with our Tacoma that Atrac works well.
It's not the same and the Toyota version is nowhere near as capable as the even the basic QD-I on the GJC. I was invited to a road and track test of the Lexus GX, Mercedes GL and BMW X5. The MBZ GL (which is the same system used by the Jeep) and the BMW kept going on the three-wheel roller test with only one wheel having traction. The Lexus/Toyota did not

Quote:
I understand the body on frame thing and that doesn't bother me, the ride doesn't bother me either. I have yet to test drive a JGC.
What really surprised me is that the Lexus GX, which is just a highly optioned and dressed-up 4Runner, was so noisy and clumsy deeling. You need to drive the GJC. It's quiet yet good on feedback, and responsive and agile with a quiet, controlled ride. Pretty much the trademarks of a Mercedes-Benz vehcile (on which it is based).

Quote:
So let me ask another question and get this thread a little off topic. What were the determing factors on your purchase of a JGC? How reliable have you found the vehicle so far. For me brand loyalty plays a part in the purchase and I have owned Toyotas and have many friends own Toyotas, and we've all had zero problems. I don't know anyone with a Jeep, so my only experience is looking up test reviews and places like consumer reports. There was some interesting numbers there. the JGC got quite a high road test score but the reliabilty over the last 10 years was ranked 16% below average. While the 4runner had a lower road test score but was ranked 46% above average for reliabilty. That's an absolutely massive difference. Did the older JGC's have issues?

When it comes down to it I'm going to have to test drive them both and our decision will be based on what suits our family better.
Our decision was based foremost what my wife wanted as this is her car. Style was important, but being used to driving German cars, she is very much in tune with handling and performance (not necessarily speed, though). The features of the GJC Limited far surpassed everything in its class. It's comfortable and has good cargo room for its size. Unfortunately, our local dealers believe that 4WD/AWD is only for "muddin''" or "Yankees who drive in the snow", so it's impossible to find a Limited or Overland here in 4WD, so we had to settle for RWD. That's OK, though, because we don't offroad in it and I just wanted AWD for the extra stability and traction in foul weather. As it turns out, the RWD has proven to be quite stable and confident in the worst wet roads so we are pleased. We only have 1,800 miles so far, and we have had one problem - the KeylessGo key became flaky. The dealer reprogrammed it and so far so good. Having been a long-time German car family, we are not scared by the occasional "adjustments" this complex vehicle might need.
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Unread 11-17-2011, 09:45 PM   #14
rockspyder
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The 4Runner we looked at and my wife drove did not have an open center diff. It was a 2011, and its 4wd system was part-time, and operated just like the Command Trac on my TJ and XJ, at least the diff part. Can't comment on how the traction control worked. But it was 2wd, 4HI (locked center diff) and 4Lo (locked center diff). Don't know what you guys are talking about an open center diff.

For me, it still all came down to price. I love Jeeps, but I also love Toyotas (certain of them; can't stand the Highlander or the Sequoia, but drool over the FJ just like I do JK's, and would LOVE to have a 2wd Tacoma with the TRD package and locking rear diff).

For our purposes and usage, if it hadn't been for price, we probably would have bought the 4Runner. But we couldn't afford it. Did we "settle" for the JGC? Absolutely not! I LOVE that thing to. And of all the vehicles I've owned, I've had problems, inordinately, out of all of them except for Toyota and Jeep. Those are the only two brands I can say I have any real trust in.
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Unread 11-18-2011, 01:58 PM   #15
lezavw90
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Well I must be mistaken about the 4wd systems. I can only go by what I have read on the companies websites, and places like the faq here, and with my own personal experience with my own vehicle. Jeep my offer better programing as stated but from everything I've read the functionality of the systems are quite alike.

There also seems to be some confusion on the models as they offer 3 (i'm not sure you'd call it models) 4wd systems(?) on the 4runner. In Canada there is no 2wd JGC or 4runner. on the 4runner you get part time (on the SR5, manual shift lever) fulltime(Limited, electronic selectable awd transfers front or rear drive wheels, 4hi locked center diff 50/50, and 4lo)

Then theres the trail edition with selectable rear locker, crawl control multi terrain abs, etc. Basically a FJ in a 4runner body style, you can actually see out, lol. The FJ ha horrible sight lines.

But I'm not here to argue 4wd capabilities, I just wanted opinions on why people choose the vehicle they did.
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