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Unread 04-28-2012, 07:05 AM   #61
nwiTJdave
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Look up a fee posts and you will see I posted that on april 22nd

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Unread 04-28-2012, 09:29 AM   #62
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Gotcha, I think I tried opening it but it wouldn't open for me at the time.
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Unread 04-28-2012, 09:56 PM   #63
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It's all good. Cheers
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Unread 06-16-2012, 07:00 AM   #64
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Good article in USA today about woman serving and the medical treatment they receive. Also, the pentagon wants every branch to be like the navy and allow women 12 months of "home" time so a baby gets the moat benefits from breast milk.
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Unread 09-07-2012, 11:33 AM   #65
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I have said, and will continue to say that women have no place on a battlefield unless they are capable of hauling my limp, combat loaded body out of a ditch along with all my gear. If they're some Shrek WM's that wanna play G.I. Joe I'm all for it. But these dainty women that think they can hang with the men are out of their minds. Your body was simply not built/designed/created for this task. Deal with it.

In my 8 years I met 2 WM's that would suffice in combat arms. Both were bigger than me and I'm 6'4 ~200lbs.


S/F
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Unread 09-20-2012, 05:46 PM   #66
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Less than 15% of the entire military has engaged in direct combat. However, there is only 40% that serve in a combat related MOS.

Case Closed!
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Unread 10-10-2012, 07:55 PM   #67
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i am new to the forum but being a vet 11b and i will go no futher VMI brought in women a few years ago and it was a big stink but they have done well it took some time to get use to it though as far as infantry i say no just my opinion from been there done that not to start an arugument but about Rangers , SF and etc now honestly i thnk we as men are embedded in our brans to protect women and children so until were down to the last man like the russians in ww2 i dont think it will happen i know the women dont want to here this but we do want to protect you like it or not
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Unread 10-11-2012, 11:23 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volf View Post
I have said, and will continue to say that women have no place on a battlefield unless they are capable of hauling my limp, combat loaded body out of a ditch along with all my gear. If they're some Shrek WM's that wanna play G.I. Joe I'm all for it. But these dainty women that think they can hang with the men are out of their minds. Your body was simply not built/designed/created for this task. Deal with it.

In my 8 years I met 2 WM's that would suffice in combat arms. Both were bigger than me and I'm 6'4 ~200lbs.


S/F
Years ago blacks were going to ruin the military, then it was black officers that would ruin it, then it was women in support roles, then it was women in combat support, then women who might see combat. None of those led to the downfall of the US military. Women in combat will not cause our downfall either. Ignorance and refusal to accept it by bigoted males might.


At 6'4" and 200 lbs you are bigger than alot of male infantry soldiers.

Many of them would have trouble hauling you out of the ditch. Us support folks would make it much easier on ourselves by removing your gear and only pulling you out of the ditch or getting help to pull you out after you failed your mission. I am medical and run into the same lame excuses and idiotic retoric about female medics. "Females cannot get me out of my tank, females can't carry me, blah blah blah". What we found was that most males could't do it alone either plus there was almost always someone else around to help. Truth is that a Soldier (or Marine or Airman) is a Soldier (or Marine or Airman). Some are stronger, some are faster, some better shots, some better at other things. Unless the infantry has suddenly become made up of clones there will always be variations. A good leader knows his people, knows theirs strengths and weaknesses and figures out a way to accomplish the mission.

22 years in the Army as an NCO and officer; I have worked with great males and great females as well as sorry males and females.
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Unread 10-12-2012, 08:16 AM   #69
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I started reading the posts here, and see comments from both sides.

Personally, i think women should be allowed into combat MOS, as long as the standards are dual.

Why this will not work in the long run? Right now, a woman that is 18 years of age has more time to do their two mile run then a man at 42. That just does not make sense to me. I can understand pushups and situps, but running is running.

But if anything is said of this, women (in general) state that their body is physically differant then a mans. Yet, they can do the same job as a man? Double standards to their benefit always.

Same job, same pay, same standards
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Unread 10-12-2012, 08:49 AM   #70
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One Standard is an absolute necessity. What that standard should be is sometimes up for debate. If 10% of women can meet the agreed upon standard to be infantry then those 10% should be allowed to be infantry. If 10% of males cannot meet the standard they do not get to be infantry. Just because a job is allowed to accept women does not mean that all women will suddenly want that job nor that the standard should drop to allow more women to qualify for it. Again, make a standard for the job and hold everyone to that standard. 20/20 vision is required for flight school; for everyone. Not 20/20 for males and 20/30 for females or blacks or folks who wear glasses or any other reason. The standard is the standard. Meet it or find another job.
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Unread 10-15-2012, 06:56 PM   #71
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Unread 10-15-2012, 07:53 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whybu1 View Post
One Standard is an absolute necessity. What that standard should be is sometimes up for debate. If 10% of women can meet the agreed upon standard to be infantry then those 10% should be allowed to be infantry. If 10% of males cannot meet the standard they do not get to be infantry. Just because a job is allowed to accept women does not mean that all women will suddenly want that job nor that the standard should drop to allow more women to qualify for it. Again, make a standard for the job and hold everyone to that standard. 20/20 vision is required for flight school; for everyone. Not 20/20 for males and 20/30 for females or blacks or folks who wear glasses or any other reason. The standard is the standard. Meet it or find another job.
Heres the thing though, it's already different.

If you want to talk percentages, then lets do some pondering here. Using your 10% thing, (strictly a random number) that would mean 90% of men can, and 90% of women cant. So now we have do change accommodations to make someone feel better about themselves? I'm sorry, but this is the military we are speaking of. EVERYBODY automatically loses certain rights when they join.
IMaybe I am going on a whim here, but its in my strong opinion that if you did one on one 'combat' oriented competitions multiple times with a male vs. female, the male's would have better results. Exceptions? Sure. I bet there is a number of females out there that can outgun and outrun some guys. HOWEVER, even if it was 60% of males could do it, and say 50% of females, why would it make sense from a large scale point of view to change anything that is quite literally not making any unit more combat effective? When has anything in the military ever been 'fair?'

Carrying on the same note with what Dave posted....They were allowed to volunteer with no lost time or damage to their career for IOC. 2 signed up. 2 failed. Small number and hard to judge. More have the opportunity to go. But is this what the military is really going to rearrange the ranks, standards, and billeting for? How many are going to sign up? If theres 30,000 infantry Marines, how many would honestly be female? If we're going to go back to what was said earlier, whatever sex proves to be the best percentage wise should be the sole sex in combat arms. Why? Because again, MOS's are not volunteer and it's not exactly hurting for numbers. Sure, there are male turds because of this but what do you think they end up doing when the get to a unit? The crap jobs. And guess what they can't pull? The sexist card.

And please for the love of god stop using the history of black people in the military. Thats the most ridiculous statement ever. Why? Because if you take a 180lb black man and put him next to a 180lb white man, guess what you have? Two 180lb men.You said at 6'4 and 200lbs, that guy was bigger then most military. But the average height of a man is 5'10, average for women is 5'4. The infantry PT's. A LOT. Think it would be hard to say the average 5'10 infantryman is about 170-180? What would a 5'4 female in good shape weigh? I'd estimate maybe 130? Men and women are simply built different and wired different. If it happens everywhere else in nature, what makes it so hard to comprehend for humans? I've had the unfortunate experience of running litter to helicopters. I've also worked out with females in my battalion. Not just running, but 'combat fitness.' I wouldn't of wanted the majority of them to of been on the opposite side of that litter.

And I'm done.
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Unread 10-26-2012, 10:54 AM   #73
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Cj What type of service is the question

I believe, and I may be wrong, but the question here is what TYPE of service should be open to women. Those who have not been in infantry or front-line door kicking units have no credible opinion on this subject, IMHO. I know that there are women who are tougher physically, mentally, etc than many men, but not all men serve in these type of units. But the bigger issue that I see being overlooked here is the simple fact of fraternization and the effect it WILL have and DOES have on units that are coed. Most military members are not in this type of unit and there are reasons why. Many, both male and female, don't want to and/or can't do this type of duty. The ages of most of the members DOES have a major impact on the decision of putting women into these units. I'm 42 and would not want to serve with women in this type of unit due to this fact. I know at 18-25, I wouldn't be able to handle it. It is because of the way we are made. You cannot deny this fact that at this age, you have the urge for physical and sexual encounters, and no matter what, it WILL happen. If you are in this type of unit, there is no place for this. Call it what you will, but there is a reason we have two different gender/sexes. We are not ASEXUAL and never will be despite what the PC folks, idealists and utopians want. Everybody wants to have their own rights. Fine, but with rights come responsibilities. If you can't accept those and perform at the NEEDED level of competency, then you don't have that right. Why is it when I divorced, the court ruled in favor of my ex-wife having my sons? Isn't it my right to have them as much as hers? It certainly isn't because I'm any less capable of providing for them, is it? Maybe it is. Maybe at early ages, the children need their mother MORE than their father and this is the best choice in a difficult situation. I'm not a woman and don't have the same abilities as one. Women are NOT men and don't have the same abilities as one. If you are truly honest with yourself, you would reach the same conclusion. RLTW
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Unread 10-29-2012, 09:23 AM   #74
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Saw this and immediately thought of this thread. Lol

forumrunner_20121029_102254.jpg
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Unread 10-29-2012, 07:22 PM   #75
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Obviously the author of this thread is a close-minded individual and I am glad to see him leave the service of this country. If you don't remember you swore an oath to serve and protect the people of the united states. Being a non commissioned officer with almost ten years of service and over 30 months of time in Iraq I do believe that if a woman wants the chance to serve in that capacity let her. Make her pass by the same standards. if she fails she fails and if she succeeds she succeeds. What does gender really have to do with someone wanting to serve their country. Alot of people are going off track but they are all valid points. Men have never had to prove themselves to be worthy of serving their country in the military. Women have had to fight for almost everything they have. The right to vote, serve in public office, serve their country just to name a few. What are you scared of that the military might want more females in infantry roles? Strength and being an alpha has nothing to do with any of this. A woman is fully capable of leading combat troops, firing a weapon, rucking, doing pt. Alot of women probably just don't want to be in that job and some do. What is the real harm of women in an infantry role? You are a typical marine grunt that no one likes or cares for that his head is too big and can't seem to get it out his a**. The big debate over this issue is people like you that can't seem to think like an educated adult. Like I said in the beginning I am glad knowing that I won't have to share a foxhole with you. Let them serve how they want to if they fail they fail but I would put my money on them succeeding. We have the finest fighting force in the world and with all the change over the years it not once has made us weaker. Thoughts like this is what degrades our force not women in combat roles.

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