Calling all grunts....This is going to piss some people off! - Page 4 - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > General > Military Jeepers > Calling all grunts....This is going to piss some people off!

Engo winches available at www.rockridge4wd.com! Free shippFS: Wranger BRIGHT License Plate LED! Just $3! Great valuePremium LED Lighting by VISION X, Proudly sold at ROCKRIDG

Reply
Unread 04-22-2012, 06:41 AM   #46
jeepinmichguy_
I haz ah Geep
 
jeepinmichguy_'s Avatar
2003 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: The Sticks, Alabama
Posts: 7,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwiTJdave View Post
Have you been to college? What was your gpa if you have been?

Even better, I'll relate this directly to the op's original question.... When you graduated Infantry School, what number did you graduate? I was 3rd academically out of 250ish and finished 6th overall
So you were better that 247 other guys that cut a 30 on their ASVAB? Impressive....

If women want to make all things equal that is fine, but make ALL things equal. Let them have to pass the same as a man on their PFT scores . Most wouldn't even be in the military if that were the case.

__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoogieman View Post
Jeepinmichguy is a jerk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
How about this, if you had the Jeep Spirit, you wouldn't abuse the rest of us trying to enjoy a nice day out wheeling by bringing your brokeass broken down junkyard crap out to play where it can't handle it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepForum123 View Post
you all have nice rigs, stop being f****** a**holes.
jeepinmichguy_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-22-2012, 06:54 AM   #47
LostJeeper
Registered User
1999 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Clackamas, Oregon
Posts: 471
nickmonaco I was just trying to say that women go into danger spots all the time. and yes I do like my truck over walking although not all trucks I do feel safer in 2 of the gun trucks they give us. Give them a chance you might be surprised or embarrassed lol.
__________________
Armed Forces Jeeps
MT WAVE SAR
KF7IRO
LostJeeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-22-2012, 08:25 AM   #48
5-90
Registered User
1988 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Jose, CA, Hammerspace
Posts: 5,344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandlapper3396 View Post
This has zero to do with intelligence. This isn't something you pick up in a book and learn. It takes a special level of ignorance or maybe arrogance to believe you know what someone else is capable of. That you can take one look and based on some physical characteristic imply that person isn't good enough. To think you know what they can or cannot handle.

I'll put this another way because it's obvious you are a proud marine as you should be. How do you feel about disabled soldiers? Men who have lost limbs and are incapacitated in some way or another? Should they be allowed to continue fighting? I won't put words in your mouth but I'm pretty sure what your feelings about that are. Something tells me you wouldn't have the audacity to tell one of them they shouldn't be on the front lines with you. It takes flawed thinking, some type of bigotry or prejudice to recognize that heart in one person and not another based on some physical bias you have. It takes effort to be that blind. Trying to keep this out of PRC, but it needs to be said. Sexual discrimination is all this. Dress it up any way you want to feel better about yourself.

To answer your question I didn't go to college. Like I said at the beginning this isn't something you pick up and learn in a book. So if you feel the need to whip out willies and compare that's cool. I already stated that I went through the Navy Nuclear Propulsion pipeline. Can google it or take my word for it but it's considered one of the hardest academic courses in the country. 19 out of an initial starting class of 250ish sounds sounds about right. They even thought I was smart enough to go back and teach.
This ties in with something else that's always bothered me - actually, two things (we're being pedantic.)

1) Just because a soldier is disabled doesn't mean he has nothing to offer. Make him a trainer if he wants, offer him retirement if he does not. He's probably proven his fighting spirit, the dice just came up wrong. One does not need a sound body to be a trainer - and allowing the man shy a limb to train frees up the "physically perfect" soldiers to go do what soldiers do - break things and kill people.

Chances are pretty good that the disabled soldier will teach you things to watch out for that the "physically perfect" solder doesn't know about.

2) In a similar vein, I have never liked the "up-or-out" mentality that was becoming prevalent when I signed up (20-odd years ago.) It's not a good idea.

There is no dishonour in finishing 35 years in as a buck sergeant - if it's where you excel. If a man is a natural squad leader, give him a squad and stay out of his way. If you promote the man to E5 and he starts to come unstitiched; back him down to E4 and let him go on his way - you've obviously pushed him too far.

Some men are natural officers. Some (me...) are natural senior non-coms. Some are natural junior non-comes. And some are natural line-animals.

Don't promote a man beyond his ability due to a false expectation of competence and setting of spurious limitations on what a man should be able to do - let him serve in whatever capacity he serves best, and leave him alone.

(NB: I wen through school long enough ago that the rule of "use a masculine pronoun in cases of mixed or unknown gender" applies, and I'm not about to change just because the PC Lunatic Fringe tells me I should. Fark 'em. Ladies, I do include you as well. But, I find having to continually use "his/hers/its/their" or other compound mixed pronouns to be cumbersome and silly - every language I've spoken has the same rule, but English wants to change it.

(George Carlin pointed out that, as language becomes more PC, it becomes more cumbersome. And, he noticed this about twenty years ago as well. Why is this? Shouldn't language become more efficient, not less?

(But, I digress.)

Discuss.
__________________
"recon" (sic - reckon)(tm) "hihgly"(tm) "seceed"(tm)
"Outback AIDS - Alcohol-Induced Dizzy Spells"
5-90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-22-2012, 09:26 AM   #49
nwiTJdave
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandlapper3396

This has zero to do with intelligence. This isn't something you pick up in a book and learn. It takes a special level of ignorance or maybe arrogance to believe you know what someone else is capable of. That you can take one look and based on some physical characteristic imply that person isn't good enough. To think you know what they can or cannot handle.

I'll put this another way because it's obvious you are a proud marine as you should be. How do you feel about disabled soldiers? Men who have lost limbs and are incapacitated in some way or another? Should they be allowed to continue fighting? I won't put words in your mouth but I'm pretty sure what your feelings about that are. Something tells me you wouldn't have the audacity to tell one of them they shouldn't be on the front lines with you. It takes flawed thinking, some type of bigotry or prejudice to recognize that heart in one person and not another based on some physical bias you have. It takes effort to be that blind. Trying to keep this out of PRC, but it needs to be said. Sexual discrimination is all this. Dress it up any way you want to feel better about yourself.

To answer your question I didn't go to college. Like I said at the beginning this isn't something you pick up and learn in a book. So if you feel the need to whip out willies and compare that's cool. I already stated that I went through the Navy Nuclear Propulsion pipeline. Can google it or take my word for it but it's considered one of the hardest academic courses in the country. 19 out of an initial starting class of 250ish sounds sounds about right. They even thought I was smart enough to go back and teach.
Being disabled has nothing to do with females in the infantry.

Everyone seems to want to get this off track and say its about women in combat roles. It's not.

So unless you are a grunt, get the hell out of a post that starts with "Calling all grunts" Perhaps you should start one for all your nuclear buddies and ill come troll your thread where I will have no clue what I am talking about just as you have no clue what being a grunt is. It's not just carry a gun and go patrol.

And, i hate to burst your bubble about the intelligence level of grunts but most grunts who enlist in the Marines want to be grunts. So yes, it is an accomplishment to be in the top 3 academically out of 250. So who is showing their *** about stereotyping the asvab score of grunts? Go troll elsewhere
__________________
www.militaryjeepers.com

This is for fighting, this is for fun.
nwiTJdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-22-2012, 10:33 AM   #50
nickmonaco
Registered User
2012 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Fort Campbell, Kentucky
Posts: 1,143
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwiTJdave View Post
Being disabled has nothing to do with females in the infantry.

Everyone seems to want to get this off track and say its about women in combat roles. It's not.

So unless you are a grunt, get the hell out of a post that starts with "Calling all grunts" Perhaps you should start one for all your nuclear buddies and ill come troll your thread where I will have no clue what I am talking about just as you have no clue what being a grunt is. It's not just carry a gun and go patrol.

And, i hate to burst your bubble about the intelligence level of grunts but most grunts who enlist in the Marines want to be grunts. So yes, it is an accomplishment to be in the top 3 academically out of 250. So who is showing their *** about stereotyping the asvab score of grunts? Go troll elsewhere
__________________
[B][/B][I][COLOR="White"][/COLOR][/I]WHITE JEEP CLUB #171

My other Jeep's not a Chrysler.
nickmonaco is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-22-2012, 10:33 AM   #51
jeepinmichguy_
I haz ah Geep
 
jeepinmichguy_'s Avatar
2003 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: The Sticks, Alabama
Posts: 7,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwiTJdave View Post
And, i hate to burst your bubble about the intelligence level of grunts but most grunts who enlist in the Marines want to be grunts. So yes, it is an accomplishment to be in the top 3 academically out of 250. So who is showing their *** about stereotyping the asvab score of grunts? Go troll elsewhere
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoogieman View Post
Jeepinmichguy is a jerk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
How about this, if you had the Jeep Spirit, you wouldn't abuse the rest of us trying to enjoy a nice day out wheeling by bringing your brokeass broken down junkyard crap out to play where it can't handle it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepForum123 View Post
you all have nice rigs, stop being f****** a**holes.
jeepinmichguy_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-22-2012, 02:34 PM   #52
Sandlapper3396
Member
 
Sandlapper3396's Avatar
2009 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Casa Grande, AZ
Posts: 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwiTJdave View Post
Being disabled has nothing to do with females in the infantry.

Everyone seems to want to get this off track and say its about women in combat roles. It's not.

So unless you are a grunt, get the hell out of a post that starts with "Calling all grunts" Perhaps you should start one for all your nuclear buddies and ill come troll your thread where I will have no clue what I am talking about just as you have no clue what being a grunt is. It's not just carry a gun and go patrol.

And, i hate to burst your bubble about the intelligence level of grunts but most grunts who enlist in the Marines want to be grunts. So yes, it is an accomplishment to be in the top 3 academically out of 250. So who is showing their *** about stereotyping the asvab score of grunts? Go troll elsewhere
You mad? Cause the OP also said we could piss people off. If the title didn't say that I wouldn't have bothered with this thread

Are you confusing me with someone else? I never once slammed on your achievements. Commented on what I believe are flawed beliefs, but never on what you have accomplished as a man. I wouldn't give a crap what you did and would still call you out on this BS.

It's comical that we're on a public forum. That we scream at the top of our lungs and beat on our chest for freedom of speech, for our voices to be heard. Then in the next breath believe and demand someone with a differing opinion to be silent. If you don't want to hear other people's opinions don't bring up yours.
Sandlapper3396 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-22-2012, 04:58 PM   #53
Ross
Registered User
2001 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: BUM****, MO
Posts: 10,317
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepinmichguy_ View Post
So you were better that 247 other guys that cut a 30 on their ASVAB? Impressive....

If women want to make all things equal that is fine, but make ALL things equal. Let them have to pass the same as a man on their PFT scores . Most wouldn't even be in the military if that were the case.
I was NBC NCO in a few different types of Units, I have seen allot of alpha roosters. I was also a Recruiter and enlisted my share of Infantry. You would be surprised how high most of their GT scores are.
__________________
Schitzangiggles: We used to teach our children to fight evil, now we teach them that fighting is evil.

2001 TJ, 33 trxus MTs , W, locked, belly up, some armor.

"If you aim at nothing, you will hit it every time." Zig Ziglar
Ross is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-22-2012, 06:06 PM   #54
nwiTJdave
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandlapper3396

You mad? Cause the OP also said we could piss people off. If the title didn't say that I wouldn't have bothered with this thread

Are you confusing me with someone else? I never once slammed on your achievements. Commented on what I believe are flawed beliefs, but never on what you have accomplished as a man. I wouldn't give a crap what you did and would still call you out on this BS.

It's comical that we're on a public forum. That we scream at the top of our lungs and beat on our chest for freedom of speech, for our voices to be heard. Then in the next breath believe and demand someone with a differing opinion to be silent. If you don't want to hear other people's opinions don't bring up yours.
I'm on the phone app and cant multi quote. That comment was intended for the troll

It's got nothing to do with a public forum and hear me roar. Like I said in my original argument, hang around a grunt for a few days and see how vial they are. Traditionally It's not pc there. The stuff they say and do would make mothers of America cringe.

Do you even know what a fighting hole or tower baby is?
__________________
www.militaryjeepers.com

This is for fighting, this is for fun.
nwiTJdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-22-2012, 08:55 PM   #55
THETROOPER
Registered User
1999 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: HOMOSASSA, FL
Posts: 365
Please stop making the infantry sound like a frat. It's not all nasty talk and grabass. Yes it's a lot of alphadogs but it's also a group of professionals. We set the standard for the rest of the military. The idea that women couldn't handle our vulgarity is nonsense. The only valid argument I've heard for keeping women out of the infantry is the question of hygiene. But I believe that obstacle to be a small one.
THETROOPER is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-22-2012, 09:26 PM   #56
nwiTJdave
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,523
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop...-whDNNKk&gl=US

Said way better than i could have ever tried.
__________________
www.militaryjeepers.com

This is for fighting, this is for fun.
nwiTJdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-22-2012, 10:21 PM   #57
Maximus856
Registered User
1968 J-Series Truck 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Coatesville, Pa
Posts: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cause View Post
I have read every post in here. A varied amount of opinions from several of mostly the same 'now' generation. And I would guess from a good number of those without any 'combat' experience.
I'll try to 'qualify' myself with you and express an opinion from what could only be desribed as an old grunt.
To 'qualify' myself as to having a bit more than average 'combat' experience... A good number of people on this site know me, for those who don't, accept these as my qualifications. My 'time' was in the mid '60's to early '70's. An 11b, airborne ranger qualified, my 'duty' was as a LRRP, three years in a relatively hostile environment, that was three straight years without returning to the States. During that time I collected two Air Medals (for a number of helo combat assults), four ACM's 3 with a V device one for 'meritorius', three BSM's all with a V device, three PH's and a Silver Star... this should be sufficient to assure you of any question of quantity of experience in a 'combat' situation.
Now for my 'qualified' opinion. At my 'time' there were no female combatants, ...on our side! But I can assure you there were no gender lines drawn on the other. If anyone of you believe a woman/female is not capable of assuming a 'combat' role, think again. I have no 'statistics' to present but I do have the experience of firsthand knowledge that at least 20% or higher of the othersides 'bodycount' were women. Very capable of performing the same tasks as their Brothers in arms. What would make any of you think that a like trained US Military Soldier female would be any less efficient and or effective than the 5'-0 or less 100lb. adversary was that assisted in the killing of over 58,000 American MEN. In retrospect, I do not believe gender would of made any difference to me at the time. If they (females) can qualify using the same measures as for a man, they would/should be provided the opportunity. No one knows untill exposed to the chaotic dangers of actual 'combat' how any individual will react. Thinking that simply by gender a person/soldier would break in a stressfull combat role is erroneous thinking. I have witnessed a highly trained 6-3, 240 former Pro football player turned soldier curl up in a fetal position and uncontollably cry at his first firefight. Would I have prefferred a woman in his place, at that time I would not of cared what was between their legs, hell yes.
Cause, people are products of their environment. If we were being invaded, I wouldnt much care who was throwing lead downrange. The fact is though, our military isn't in a position where we need every single person to serve. Many countries have had very effective female soldiers. But the principles on which they grew up on I would imagine were vastly different than Americans. I work as a bouncer now on the weekends, and the girls I see coming into the bar are of the age group of the average infantryman. No way in hell would I want 90% of them in the military much less the infantry. The guys though? At this age group, they WANT to fight. Im sure we've all heard about 18-24 year old guys being full of piss and vinegar, and that is a big factor in how they fight. That simply lacks in many females of that age group. Talk is cheap, but it does at least show that fighting is on their mind. Now, maybe I am being cocky here and possibly a bit blind to some of the world but as it stands I think we have one of the finest fighting forces in the world. I'd say most of the time that we have problems in a war usually can't be attributed to the actual forces fighting, rather some other stuff that would get this kicked into the politics chat. With that said, why 'fix it if it aint broke?' We saw the need to for females and came up with a solution. Now we're thinking of changing the dynamics of the infantry, one who has been at it for over 236 years because of what some people 'want?'

In 2008, the same female who was thought of as the "bad *** girl" in our battalion was the one who purposely sat next to me and tried holding onto my arm on a simple convoy through fallujah because she knew I was an 03. This was 2008, and anyone who was there knows there wasn't much going on then. So yes, you might of seen your example of a crappy male soldier but I have seen the females full of cowardice..

While I'm at it, people trying to compare the segregation of black and white to females and males is again just plain ignorant. There is little to no difference in the physical build of black and white, or the mindset between a black man and a white man. Can't say the same for men and women.

Hell, form up a whole battalion sized FET for all I care. I just dont think the problems that would arise from integrating 18-24 year old females into a battalion (800-1200?) of males 18-24 would be worth the little to no gain. Now in the Marine Corps, a rough estimate of how many 'grunts' there are would be in the territory of 25k. Thats roughly the size of two small universities. How many problems arise because of 'extra curricular' activities in a single university? You can all say that they would need to have self control but get real. Im sure everyone who has said that was a perfect saint at this age.

Still, no one has answered if this would be volunteer only, or a requirement no matter how capable a female is or isnt.
Maximus856 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-23-2012, 06:55 AM   #58
nwiTJdave
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,523
It's a volunteer thing from what I've been hearing/reading. But, that is all just scuttlebutt. I know a few females have already gone through itb on a "test run."
__________________
www.militaryjeepers.com

This is for fighting, this is for fun.
nwiTJdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-23-2012, 11:36 AM   #59
crimsonradio
Registered User
2012 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Clarksville, TN
Posts: 14
11B, 15 mo Iraq, 12 mo Afghanistan. 12 dead friends and one permanently messed up back later I have one thing to say, I am not sexist nor am I some kind of super hooah ******* but it's just not smart to put women in the infantry. MENTALLY it's stressing on both sexes, seeing a mans face get blown off is a little different than seeing a women's face blown off, it's mentally challenging for both sexes. And physically is basic human anatomy. Upper body strength is night and day. The body it self is completely mapped out different in support of upper body strength. I don't know about you but when I get blown up or shot, I want to be dragged behind cover in a timely matter. This subject seems to be nothing more then a pissing contest with no actual scientific fact back up anything.
crimsonradio is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-28-2012, 02:02 AM   #60
Maximus856
Registered User
1968 J-Series Truck 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Coatesville, Pa
Posts: 67
I dont want to keep beating a dead horse here, but 'Marines of Helmand and Al Anbar' on facebook posted this link. Its from General Barrow, 27th commandant of the Marine Corps. He fought in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. One BIG thing I took away is the law vs. policy. Many of the people today are basing their opinion on this war we've been involved in, and this war only. Many aren't thinking of what the future holds, and once the law is changed..as the saying goes 'thats all she wrote.' He has some very interesting points, so I encourage anyone interested in this topic to watch it. It's a bit long, but worth it.



And to all who think being in a support MOS is more dangerous than being a grunt because you're always on the road...Please show me the hoverboards that grunts use to travel on. If they are out there, I would love to know why my friends who stepped on IED's or drove over them didn't have any. Yes, grunts are known for hiking and foot patrols, but they also have to get around to the other side of town in a manner other than just walking...Hard to imagine right, infantry actually using trucks?!
Maximus856 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Suggested Threads





Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.