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Unread 01-25-2012, 12:30 PM   #1
Nafpu
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Throttle body upgrades?

Hello all, I was looking at some other threads in different areas, and the Viper mod for the JK got me thinking: Are there any alternate throttle bodies that could be used on our 3.7s to boost mpgs and/or power?
Do forgive my qustion if this has been discussed already...

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Unread 01-25-2012, 01:28 PM   #2
jonrjen
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A lot of people believe in the TB Spacer stories, even more will tell you that they are a product from a Snake Oil Salesman...IE: a bunch of bunk!!

Even more will tell you that the computer on your Liberty will adjust itself to compensate for the change of the TB being added and you will not have any improvement gains.

Kind of like the even older questions: To K&N or leave stock question, OR the which came first, the chicken or the egg.
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Unread 01-25-2012, 03:12 PM   #3
streetglideok
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I dont buy into most of those claims made. Most are unsubstantiated numbers, and they never disclose everything, or dont use the proper controls when conducting tests, in other words, too many variables. I've never seen anyone show honest to god dyno pulls, of before and after with throttlebody spacers, aftermarket cold air intakes, etc, and configured as they would be used in real life. The companies, if you believe them, well I should be able to add a flowmaster, k&n cold air system, magnets on the fuel line, royal purple oil, and put a honda TYPE R badge on the back of the jeep, and gain 150hp. Oops, forgot the spacer, lets make it 180hp now,lol. Reality is, there is a psychological improvement, but nothing solid in proof. If you took the typical ricer honda civic, with their "intake" on it, and duplicated real world conditions, ie, drive it around town, getting the underhood temps up to normal, especially with the tricked out header to make more heat, and then threw it on the dyno and checked, the high school kid is gonna cry when he sees how much power he actually lost.

Do a search on here about the spacers, and decide if you want to take the pepsi challenge. Its only money.
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Unread 01-25-2012, 05:06 PM   #4
Nafpu
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Nah, I was actually looking to exchange the throttle body itself. I certainly don't drink the spacer kool-aid, and I know why K&N-type filters don't work very well for what Jeepers want them to do.
I also can't figure out why people insist that an aluminum tube is better that some kind of plastic. Ok, so metal "reflects" heat, but then once it does heat up, it stays heated a lot longer than plastic. Not to mention sucking hot air from a hot engine bay, directly behind/above the hot radiator, does nothing to improve power. But the exhaust sounds farty, so it must be better!

In short, looking for any possible info on the actual TB, not a spacer, and not a "C"AI... Thanks for your input!
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Unread 01-25-2012, 05:31 PM   #5
streetglideok
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Heres the twist, and this goes back to carb days as well. When you increase the bore size of a throttlebody, to allow more air in, any gains you will see, will be to the high rpm band. That will make it show more hp on paper. The twist is, you lose out on the lower rpm band, where you need the oomph to get the Liberty moving. Torque is the power output of the engine, horsepower is a measurement of how much work something can do over time. So the slower the engine is turning, the lower the horsepower, even if it has peak torque there. Thats one reason why you dont see huge horsepower numbers on diesels, but insane torque numbers since they are a low rpm engine.

With an SUV, with its weight, you want to emphasize torque, and down in the lower band, not increase peak hp on top, unles you plan to run 1/4 mile drags.
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Unread 01-25-2012, 06:56 PM   #6
tjkj2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nafpu View Post
Hello all, I was looking at some other threads in different areas, and the Viper mod for the JK got me thinking: Are there any alternate throttle bodies that could be used on our 3.7s to boost mpgs and/or power?
Do forgive my qustion if this has been discussed already...
Well since you have throttle by wire there are no other TB's that will work currently.If you had a throttle cable still Fastman has a bored TB for the 3.7 but only for those with a throttle cable('02-'06 Liberty's).
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Unread 01-25-2012, 08:38 PM   #7
Nafpu
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I checked fastman's website, and he currently offers a 3.7-3.8 electronic TB. I'm assuming that isn't too beneficial for my hopes? Poop...
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Unread 01-25-2012, 09:34 PM   #8
Bmxer524
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Well I can say that my friend with a 4" lift, 265/75/16, K&N intake, super 44, and stock gears is faster then my stock KK. So they those atleast do something. Might not be mileage, but it adds some power. He was pulling away from me when I was floored the other week. Not sure how hard he was on the gas though.
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Unread 01-25-2012, 11:13 PM   #9
streetglideok
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Super 44? If he is running a Liberty with those tires and 3.73s, it should be a little poochy from what Ive seen reported. If he is running a different axle, then it likely isnt stock gearing. If its a different vehicle, apples to oranges. Proof is in the pudding... show me the dyno slip,lol.
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Unread 01-25-2012, 11:43 PM   #10
Bmxer524
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Flowmaster super 44 muffler. He has an 08 KK, mine is an 11. Stock chrysler 8.25 in the rear. Stock gearing, and yes automatic.
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Unread 01-26-2012, 12:33 AM   #11
NedBraden55
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Quote:
Well I can say that my friend with a 4" lift, 265/75/16, K&N intake, super 44, and stock gears is faster then my stock KK. So they those atleast do something. Might not be mileage, but it adds some power. He was pulling away from me when I was floored the other week. Not sure how hard he was on the gas though.
He may have been pulling away from you but the K&N and the Flushmaster 44 had nothing to do with it.
In 30 years of hot rodding I have yet to see either one of those add power to a stock or nearly stock motor. Just can't happen.
Even if they flow more, your stock 3.7 can't use it because it doesn't need it.
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Unread 01-26-2012, 12:50 AM   #12
Bmxer524
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All I'm saying is it does something, there is no other reason that he should have pulled away from me.
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Unread 01-26-2012, 07:40 AM   #13
streetglideok
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It did something alright. Makes it fart louder, and his wallet is lighter to prove it. If that is what he likes, more power to him, but do a dyno of before and after, and you wont see but a one or two hp difference, positive or negative.
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Unread 01-26-2012, 10:15 AM   #14
Bgut
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I am the one they are fighting with in the jk site about the Viper mod.
What these guys won't do, is try the mod and come up with their own results.
What I didn’t tell them is I have been building and owned some of the fastest sand dragsters and VWs since the late 60s. I got out of it in the 80s and just play now.
I prefer Motorcycles now, nothing like riding close to 200mph on a bike, and at 55 years old I am just getting into Iron Butt ridding. It is my wife’s jeep.
They are correct on the K&N filters not being that great on airflow, and oil foam filter similar to ones used on YZ mc would be a better choice than paper or the Gauze fiber. (I use it because I live in a desert and it is cheaper than buying paper all the time.)
Next, these engines are not blue printed in anyway. You may have an engine that the cam is off slightly with the timing and the other vehicle is more optimized. (On cams you install they sell shims to optimize the cams timing). Your O2 sensor can be towards a different end of tolerances and the reaction of the computer can be different. Cats can be more restrictive than others can. Another difference is your injectors may be somewhat clogged from just plain use.
As for the throttle body spacer there is truth to increasing torque but you will never see it unless you move it about a foot away or more, and the intake is actually necked down to increase air speed, also the computer better be tuned for this change. BMW motard loves this concept and practices it in some of their designs. For hp you want the throttle body as close to the intake as possible. Someone is going to mention the intake runners, Go to Hughes Engines they have a section that talks about this. They did the dynos and you can see what they came up with.
When it comes to opening the exhaust on a stock vehicle again, it may or may not increase performance. I have had vehicles that did nothing, to a Mazda 323 that went from 39 mpg to 55 mpg when all we did was straight pipe it, no cat at all. I hate ceramic Cats, I have several literally shake loose in the pipe and shut off the exhaust.
You most likely have emissions where you are and you may NOT want to do these mods with out knowing what you get out of the pipes. We don’t have any inspections here at all.
Comp cams has a good little program that gives a general Idea what each mod may or may not do for your engine.
Seat of your pants testing is valid, stopwatches, mpg etc are damn good indicators. My tuned Vehicles in the 70s always beat Lopers tuning.
Good luck and Never be afraid to experiment for your self.
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Unread 01-28-2012, 01:11 AM   #15
Liberty6
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2012 KK Liberty .... I had a 06 Liberty and I put a K&N cold air system on, I got more horsepower (no #s) great off the line better sound BUT worse gas mileage. I took it off cause my main goal was for better MPG's.
Ive got a 2011 Liberty now and I don't plan on making any mod's unless somebody show's me proof that a specific mod work's.
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