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Unread 12-28-2011, 02:19 PM   #31
Skipper6413
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Wow. Unbelievable. Here's the worst part: changing your head gasket won't fix that leak! It's literally impossible to tell what seal or gasket is blown, but it's not a head gasket!!! I can't say anything but to tell you that you have a fight ahead of you. To change oil by putting in "the amount you think it should take" is absolutely absurd! Why in the hell does the dipstick exist for then?!? This is why I do my own work, always. I'm a nitpicky SOB about doing things right. I admit that. Dealer shops (no offense) tend to be the worst about things like details. Also, for those that insist on letting others work on your car or even motorcycle, always ALWAYS inspect their work. Sometimes they make mistakes or are lazy or whatever reason, and that can burn up engines or cause accidents. Most dealers or shops make you sign to pick up the car. Guess what? You sign saying you inspected and accept their work!

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Unread 12-28-2011, 02:23 PM   #32
Skipper6413
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Just me, but I'd be damned if they touched my Jeep again. I'd be working some phones to resolve with somebody named Jeep Corp. Change a head gasket? Come on, what's next, the battery or headlights?
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Unread 12-28-2011, 02:32 PM   #33
BurntClutch
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How does this work now though. If it gets to the point of Lemon Law, I have to let this dealer try to fix it right? That's how I understand it. If the attempt to fix it is to replace the head gasket, I can't say no don't do that right?
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Unread 12-28-2011, 02:41 PM   #34
BurntClutch
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Where are the oil return ports on this picture? I'm trying to understand how it's possible to leak oil through this head gasket when everything I've heard and read tells me it's not.

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Unread 12-28-2011, 02:44 PM   #35
Skipper6413
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Start calling jeep right away! Get a case number and follow their lead to resolve. I'd have zero confidence in a shop to do that kind of work if they jack up an oil change (repeatedly). Tell them you'd like an alternative to that shop who has lost your confidence in quality.

Look, I took a truck in under warranty once for leaking differential. Not a biggie. Pointed it out and described to the "service manager" who wore a dress shirt and tie. He writes "engine oil leak" to which i protest. He assures me they will find it. Already im skeptical. But ok, I'm game. A week later I'm back to get it, and the paper says "oil filter tightened." Sure enough, leak is still there! I'm livid. I have service manager escort me to owner to explain situation and how they are going to make it right. They give me a loaner and 1,000 apologies. If your touching my $30,000 investment, I'm going to get to know you first. Hell, the only thing costing more are children and a house!
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Unread 12-28-2011, 02:58 PM   #36
BurntClutch
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on the phone with jeep - i have a case number now

So the person I spoke with at Jeep corporate gave me a case number and I will be contacted tomorrow by someone qualified to take my case. I told him I wasn't comfortable with the dealership performing this type of job and that I didn't necessarily agree with replacing a head gasket for an oil leak. He of course assured me that the dealership is more than qualified to perform this job and that they have complete confidence in them. I asked if I should stop the dealership from working on my car, he asked me not to. Lets see what happens tomorrow.

I just want to thank everyone to this point for the support and advice on this matter. I have been reading all of your comments over and over for the past two days.

Last edited by BurntClutch; 12-28-2011 at 04:33 PM..
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Unread 12-28-2011, 04:50 PM   #37
Skipper6413
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No problem. I'm not qualified to say that the Liberty head gasket isn't whats wrong, but just like you I'm highly skeptical that it will fix it. Everything I've seen on head gaskets has ports for coolant only, and a bad head gasket will leak coolant into the cylinder and oil from the cylinder will leak into the coolant from the cylinder. This milky oil and milky coolant. While it is possible, I'm skeptical. At any rate, it's best to get Jeep involved now, and keep a hold of all your records. If anyone asks for them, they can "see" them or they can make a copy. Keep originals! That's evidence of overfilling the oil.
There's 3 different kinds of oil levels folks. Not enough, just right, and too much. The right level is the hash marks on the dipstick. Outside of that, and fix it before you drive it! That's why owners manuals explicitly state "Do not overfill your oil!" I'm not scolding, but evidently some folks think hash marks are there to approximate what is right. If that were true, you'd have big hash marks instead of the one inch ones.
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Unread 12-28-2011, 07:04 PM   #38
streetglideok
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(Shaking head)
Ok guys, headgasket 101 here. If the engine has an overhead camshaft setup, IT MUST RECIEVE oil thru an oil galley to lube the cam bearings. Years ago, external oil lines would be ran, but now and its been this way for a long time, it is ran from the block into the head, and it passes thru the headgaskets. You will see multilayer steel gaskets on these apps, just as seen in that pic above. They can leak oil, and it happens alot. Look up 1997 Ford 5.4L oil leaks, they leaked in the same area as the OP's. The oil return could be easily be where the timing chain runs, and the front of the head has holes to allow it. Cant tell you, as I dont have one in front of me. Look at the gasket pic, and look at the ear that juts out on the far left. That will be the rear of the head, closest towards the fender. Notice two round holes, one slightly different in size? That one that sets away from the rest of the holes is likely the oil galley hole, and is right about where the OP has a leak. It most likely is a head gasket leaking oil, so let them do it, and get it fixed. They have to change the oil again, so tell them to get the fill amount right this time. Dodge Neons, Hondas, etc all have had this problem, so its not an isolated issue.
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Unread 12-28-2011, 07:24 PM   #39
BurntClutch
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Thanks street, sorry for the lack of knowledge. So the oil galley hole is under pressure? and that's what supplies the head with oil? You think most likely the head gasket is bad or could the head not be machined correctly, or worse yet, warped? Should I completely rule out overfilling causing this? Again thanks for explaining the holes on the head gasket.
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Unread 12-29-2011, 01:51 PM   #40
BurntClutch
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Hi Guys, quick update:
Just got off the phone with Corporate. They've been in contact with the dealership. Apparently they have already changed the head gasket and are road testing my car as we speak (there goes my full tank of gas). I should be receiving a call from the dealership soon. Hopefully it's fixed. I also mention the overfilling and the loose filter. They are going to talk to the service manager when he comes back from vacation, but they feel like over filling by 1/2 a quart is O.K. and common. They also feel like it didn't contribute to my oil leak. What else are they going to say right? Hopefully this is resolved and I can start posting up something positive!! They'll follow up with me on the 10th to make sure everything is good.
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Unread 12-29-2011, 02:08 PM   #41
Skipper6413
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Good luck Burnt. Hpoe it turns out for the better. In irony I changed my oil today in mine. In paranoia I'm checking ever so intently now for leaks! But all was well. Hope this works out for you.
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Unread 12-29-2011, 06:51 PM   #42
streetglideok
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Overfilling will have absolutely, positively nothing to do with oil getting thru the headgasket at the oil galley whether it be half a quart, or two quarts.
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Unread 12-29-2011, 07:27 PM   #43
BurntClutch
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Thanks street, I believed them (and you!). I guess I was just saying either way they would probably tell me that it wouldn't be the cause. Corporate was very nice to me on the phone, as has been the dealer. The loose filter and oil level situation still has me a little ticked off, but I'm willing to let them change it again. Maybe I'll stop going on Saturdays. It just stinks that unless I change the oil myself, I'll be checking the filter and oil level after every visit. Probably should be doing that anyway I suppose.

I spoke to the dealer after work. They were finishing up flushing my coolant and about to do my oil change. The person at corporate must have misunderstood because they had not started my car yet. They said it would be road tested tonight. I asked kindly if they could put 5 qts instead of 5.5 or 6. They agreed. Fingers crossed!!
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Unread 12-30-2011, 10:09 PM   #44
BurntClutch
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Well, I picked up the truck today at the dealer around 4:30. I had called earlier in the day and asked how everything was going since it was probably going to be a long weekend, I may have needed to make car arrangements. At 2:30, I was told they finished replacing the head gasket and just came back from road testing. Apparently they "didn't like something they saw" and decided to replace my crank seal also. My guess is it was still leaking after the head gasket but who knows. I'm told the car is leak free. I'll check for myself tomorrow. So after I pick up my keys and go to check out the truck. I pop the hood and take a quick look, while I'm in the dealership parking lot. I checked the oil but it was tough to get a good read cuz it was dark and the engine was still pretty hot. I took a quick look at the coolant level and then a second look. IT WAS LOW!! Seriously? The coolant level was way under the minimum. I went back in and told the one of the service guys. They pulled my car back in the shop and filled it with coolant. I think that's it. Hopefully this is fixed, but I think I'm done with these guys. Either I do regular maintenance myself, or I'll find another dealer. Very disappointed. I had been going to this dealer for the past 4 years and never had an issue, but the last couple of weeks have made me lose all confidence in these guys. And to top it off, the guy filling the coolant had such an attitude with me! Hopefully this is over. I'll drive it for a few days and let you guys know how it is. Below is a picture of everything they replaced:

At the bottom of the pic you can see something about a wheel weight. I had asked, since the car was going to be there for a few days, if they could just rebalance my front passenger tire since the wheel weight fell off. I totally forgot I asked this. When I got home and read the receipt again it said "wheel weight did not fall off". They did nothing about it when they told me they would. Clearly the weight bracket is still there, but no weight. OK, I'm sick of ***ching about this dealership. I'm done, I promise. Thanks again everybody for all your help.
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Unread 12-31-2011, 06:51 AM   #45
streetglideok
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Its not just that dealership, lots of them are that way, all makes. Theres two kinds of dealer techs, the really great ones who eventually leave for greener pastures, and then the idiots who are clueless and have to follow a flowchart to figure out how to replace brakepads.
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