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Unread 12-21-2011, 08:04 PM   #1
allskiing
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Interesting read on oil changes

http://autos.aol.com/article/oil-cha...6pLid%3D121738

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Unread 12-21-2011, 08:23 PM   #2
tjkj2002
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Yeah what a bunch of BS.

Ever look under the valve cover on a BMW engine after 75,000+ miles using there 15k OCI's? That will scare you to change the oil once a week.

Here is your 10k OCI's over a 110k period(10 oil changes) using Castrol GTX and Fram filters.

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Unread 12-21-2011, 08:36 PM   #3
Nafpu
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Yep, typical "information" to come out of California. I think I will stick with my normal interval of between 3-5k. How can they say what is best for your vehicle? What part of CA did this "research" come out of? What kind of driving is the norm there? LA traffic is going to be much harder on an engine than Redding traffic. But we on this forum already know this, so disregard my ramblings...
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Unread 12-21-2011, 10:41 PM   #4
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Those extended intervals for beamers and the like are when you use the spec'd oil, or it is supposed to be. Havent had to deal with them first hand to date, but I know you cant run the run of the mill oil from AZ in them either for 15k.
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Unread 12-21-2011, 11:09 PM   #5
tjkj2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streetglideok View Post
Those extended intervals for beamers and the like are when you use the spec'd oil, or it is supposed to be. Havent had to deal with them first hand to date, but I know you cant run the run of the mill oil from AZ in them either for 15k.
That is true.The correct spec'd oil for those BMW's is very hard to come by in the US and when you do find it it's like $30+ per qt and not legal for sale in the US either.
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Unread 12-22-2011, 06:03 AM   #6
Skipper6413
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Good God! No more Fram for me!
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Unread 12-22-2011, 06:49 AM   #7
streetglideok
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Originally Posted by Skipper6413 View Post
Good God! No more Fram for me!
That isnt Frams fault, it cant filter out the broke down oil from, wait, there's no good oil left! That sludge in that 3.1/3.4L GM is a result of the way too long oil intervals, and Im sure the leaking intake gaskets didnt help at all.
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Unread 12-22-2011, 09:51 AM   #8
bagwell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkj2002 View Post
Here is your 10k OCI's over a 110k period(10 oil changes) using Castrol GTX and Fram filters.

ummm isn't Castrol GTX a DYNO oil (and therefore NOT to be used for 10K oil changes)

and Fram is a known complete JUNK filter.

so what's you're point with the pic? use 100% synthetic and not to use Fram?
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Unread 12-22-2011, 10:46 AM   #9
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Ok .. now I have some questions about this .. and reading it back, its turned into a book ... sorry bout that but I'm looking for real feedback here ...

Most vehicles I've owned since 1982 (and probably before) had intervals in the owners manual saying oil changes should be done every 7500 miles with standard oil (not synthetic) under regular use. When it's driven mostly city stop and go traffic (like Taxi's), off highway high dust environments, high heat, etc. were considered heavy duty and most of those said between 4 and 5000 miles. It's my understanding that part of this need to change oils is because the oil breaks down, partly because of contaminants. Synthetic oils increase this interval because they don't break down like the standard oils but they need a better quality filter to be able to clean out particulates. Standard oils manufactured today have an increased longevity too - not as much as synthetic but still oil's much better made now than ever.

So, here's the questions I have: If the MFGR says to change oil every 7500 miles, isn't that based on their testing of longevity? Many new vehicles have 100,000 mile warranties - some lifetime. It would be in the manufacturer's best interest to lower these intervals if there's so much potential for damage, right? And when it comes to mfgrs recommending synthetic oils; and BMW, VW, SAAB, Land Rover, Jag - there are many, their recommended change interval is upwards of 10K to 12K and more miles. Again, if these long intervals are so bad, wouldn't it show up with reduced long term reliability and ultimately be bad for the manufacturer?

BTW: I did some searching, in the data I have the only US manufacturer recommending 10+ oil change intervals since 2001 is Chrysler (including Dodge and Jeep).

Really not wanting to be argumentative here and yes - changing oil more often than recommended usually doesn't hurt anything but when the MFGR says to change the oil every 12K miles and people change it every 3K miles ... it just seems to be extreme overkill.

Some of you more mechanical types here that recommend changing oil more frequently, do you do so because you've always done it that way or is it because you've got real stats saying changing oil at 5K or 10K miles - per manufacturers recommendations - is genuinely harmful to the engine?

And yes - I know the difference between standard oils where MFGR's usually recommend 7500 mile change intervals and synthetic oils where MFGR's recommend 10K+ change intervals. ... I'm talking specifically about when the manufacturer recommends one change interval and others recommend a much more frequent interval.

Last edited by jeepster-d; 12-22-2011 at 11:01 AM.. Reason: To clarify standard oil vs synthetic ...
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Unread 12-22-2011, 10:59 AM   #10
musclezmarinara
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this is why my first oil change on the jeep at 1200 will be changed to synthetic and then changed every 3k
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Unread 12-22-2011, 11:23 AM   #11
tjkj2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepster-d View Post
Ok .. now I have some questions about this .. and reading it back, its turned into a book ... sorry bout that but I'm looking for real feedback here ...

Most vehicles I've owned since 1982 (and probably before) had intervals in the owners manual saying oil changes should be done every 7500 miles with standard oil (not synthetic) under regular use. When it's driven mostly city stop and go traffic (like Taxi's), off highway high dust environments, high heat, etc. were considered heavy duty and most of those said between 4 and 5000 miles. It's my understanding that part of this need to change oils is because the oil breaks down, partly because of contaminants. Synthetic oils increase this interval because they don't break down like the standard oils but they need a better quality filter to be able to clean out particulates. Standard oils manufactured today have an increased longevity too - not as much as synthetic but still oil's much better made now than ever.

So, here's the questions I have: If the MFGR says to change oil every 7500 miles, isn't that based on their testing of longevity? Many new vehicles have 100,000 mile warranties - some lifetime. It would be in the manufacturer's best interest to lower these intervals if there's so much potential for damage, right? And when it comes to mfgrs recommending synthetic oils; and BMW, VW, SAAB, Land Rover, Jag - there are many, their recommended change interval is upwards of 10K to 12K and more miles. Again, if these long intervals are so bad, wouldn't it show up with reduced long term reliability and ultimately be bad for the manufacturer?

BTW: I did some searching, in the data I have the only US manufacturer recommending 10+ oil change intervals since 2001 is Chrysler (including Dodge and Jeep).

Really not wanting to be argumentative here and yes - changing oil more often than recommended usually doesn't hurt anything but when the MFGR says to change the oil every 12K miles and people change it every 3K miles ... it just seems to be extreme overkill.

Some of you more mechanical types here that recommend changing oil more frequently, do you do so because you've always done it that way or is it because you've got real stats saying changing oil at 5K or 10K miles - per manufacturers recommendations - is genuinely harmful to the engine?

And yes - I know the difference between standard oils where MFGR's usually recommend 7500 mile change intervals and synthetic oils where MFGR's recommend 10K+ change intervals. ... I'm talking specifically about when the manufacturer recommends one change interval and others recommend a much more frequent interval.
You got to consider that most do not keep there vehicles for very long,most trade in right after the bumper to bumper warranty expires.Those extended/lifetime warranty's in most cases are only for the original owner and can not be transfered.If you have ever tried to get a engine replaced using one of those extended/lifetime warranty's you know it can be a royal pain(not always though) if you can not prove you did your oil changes on time.

So this passes the problem to the next owner that is unaware and he's SOL since it no longer has a warranty and why you see so many complaining poeple on forums like these.Any engine regardless of who made it or where can take the abuse of neglect for 60,000-100,000 miles with no issues at all but say at 110,000 miles all hell breaks loose and your stuck buying a engine or taking a big hit and buying another vehicle.Just this week I changed the oil on a '05 Chrysler 300 with the 3.5 and it still had the factory installed oil filter on it(stamped right on the filter,dated also) with 74k on the ODO,that oil did not look good coming out.The record I've personally seen was a '02 Subaru with 124k on it with the original factory installed oil filter.


I see the end results of extended OCI's all the time at work and it's not cheap nor pretty.Some may never have a issue but others will have endless issues and why over 90% of all ASE Master Tech's still recommend 3k OCI's.Now it's not so they have more work as anyone in the trade will tell you a Master Tech is the last person any shop wants to change the oil since the shop will loose money paying there higher salary.



Just remember oil is cheap,engines are not.It's not a waste changing every 3k,your going to be dead before we run out of oil anyways and almost all used oil is recycled or burned as heating fuel anyways so no real enviromental impact from changing more often as the greenie's think it is.
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Unread 12-22-2011, 11:26 AM   #12
Lehman26
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Changed oil at 1000 miles and then every 3000 after in every new car I owned
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Unread 12-22-2011, 12:56 PM   #13
jeepster-d
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkj2002 View Post
You got to consider that most do not keep there vehicles for very long,most trade in right after the bumper to bumper warranty expires.Those extended/lifetime warranty's in most cases are only for the original owner and can not be transfered.If you have ever tried to get a engine replaced using one of those extended/lifetime warranty's you know it can be a royal pain(not always though) if you can not prove you did your oil changes on time.

So this passes the problem to the next owner that is unaware and he's SOL since it no longer has a warranty and why you see so many complaining poeple on forums like these.Any engine regardless of who made it or where can take the abuse of neglect for 60,000-100,000 miles with no issues at all but say at 110,000 miles all hell breaks loose and your stuck buying a engine or taking a big hit and buying another vehicle.Just this week I changed the oil on a '05 Chrysler 300 with the 3.5 and it still had the factory installed oil filter on it(stamped right on the filter,dated also) with 74k on the ODO,that oil did not look good coming out.The record I've personally seen was a '02 Subaru with 124k on it with the original factory installed oil filter.


I see the end results of extended OCI's all the time at work and it's not cheap nor pretty.Some may never have a issue but others will have endless issues and why over 90% of all ASE Master Tech's still recommend 3k OCI's.Now it's not so they have more work as anyone in the trade will tell you a Master Tech is the last person any shop wants to change the oil since the shop will loose money paying there higher salary.



Just remember oil is cheap,engines are not.It's not a waste changing every 3k,your going to be dead before we run out of oil anyways and almost all used oil is recycled or burned as heating fuel anyways so no real enviromental impact from changing more often as the greenie's think it is.
I get your point. And though I am for conserving when it makes sense, I'm not much of a "greenie" myself. If I was, I'd not have traded in a car that gets 25MPG for one that gets 20MPG. I'm good with what I have - and i want it to last as long as possible, I tend to keep them till they're not worth the repairs it would cost to keep them running. I've tended to follow MFG's recommendations for oil changes, usually staying under the 7.5K miles. I try to hit it at the 5K to 6K range. With this one (and my Jeep is easily my most favorite of all cars/trucks I've ever owned) I'll probably keep it closer to the 5K and under change interval.

You know, some years back a buddy of mine had a full sized Ford f350 SD Diesel truck - this was back in the '80s - we were out of high school but not more than a couple years. First thing he did was put in a oil "system" he called it. It was a remote oil filter set up and braided lines from the remote holder on the fender down to the engine block where the filter would have normally gone. He could pull the filter unit off - it was maybe the size of a 2 liter pop bottle - not as tall but similar in diameter. He'd pour the oil out and insert a new filter - it looked for all the world like a roll of toilet paper - stick it back together, start the engine and run it for a few minutes till the filter can was full of oil and top it off. I don't know if he was lying or not but he said he only changed the oil when a new filter wouldn't make it nice and golden again - he had over 200K miles and he said he only changed the oil a "few times" ..

What do yo think? Was he full of it or is that possible - get that kind of longevity from oil only by keeping it clean?
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Unread 12-22-2011, 01:09 PM   #14
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[QUOTE=Just remember oil is cheap,engines are not.It's not a waste changing every 3k,your going to be dead before we run out of oil anyways and almost all used oil is recycled or burned as heating fuel anyways so no real enviromental impact from changing more often as the greenie's think it is.[/QUOTE]

I agree. I have considered, though, with switching over to synthetic, that bumping out to say 4500-5000 mile intervals would work. I have always tried to stick with 3000 miles because that is what I learned when I first started driving.
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Unread 12-22-2011, 01:14 PM   #15
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1st diesel oil is a bit different then what your engine requires.Diesel oil needs to hold soot where as a gas engines oil does not and additives needed for gas engines is more then diesels so yes diesel oil can can/will last longer but still breaks down.


The biggest issues is keeping the oil clean and keeping the additives.Your normal filter that fits a KK will hold enough junk that if dompacted would be about the size of a dime,but that's about it.Now all that junk is not metal but dirt sucked into the engine and other debris.
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