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Unread 09-10-2012, 01:54 AM   #16
Zambonie
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2012 KK Liberty 
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: San Antonio, TX
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I personally tow my boat quite often. I have the class III tow kit, and it pulls the boat well. The boat weight is 3000 lbs alone. So, I am pulling even more than that, when fully loaded for a weekend at the lake or beach. The tow is very smooth and handles much better than I expected. I usually travel 60ish miles per trip with it.

Main reason I went with the KK, is because I wanted an SUV that could handle the tow of the boat, without getting too large of a vehicle. I can say I don't regret it at all.

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Unread 09-11-2012, 10:22 AM   #17
robibler
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Hey guys great info. I was wondering if someone with knowledge could answer a more specific question: I have a 2010 kk no tow package or 4x4, and with an aftermarket hitch. I plan on purchasing a small 16 to 20 foot skiff or bay boat. Do you think I should have any problems launching? I'm not going to tow it much, if at all, on the interstate. I live in the keys and there are tons of boat ramps. I was thanks guys.
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Unread 09-11-2012, 10:38 AM   #18
rescue575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robibler
Hey guys great info. I was wondering if someone with knowledge could answer a more specific question: I have a 2010 kk no tow package or 4x4, and with an aftermarket hitch. I plan on purchasing a small 16 to 20 foot skiff or bay boat. Do you think I should have any problems launching? I'm not going to tow it much, if at all, on the interstate. I live in the keys and there are tons of boat ramps. I was thanks guys.
That is pretty much my set up. No tow package and aftermarket curt hitch. I have not had any problems yet.

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Unread 09-11-2012, 12:57 PM   #19
JeepCares
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You can get more information on towing in the owner manual. You can download one here.
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Unread 09-11-2012, 09:48 PM   #20
crappyfisherman
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WHEELBASE or lack there of...is the biggest enemy of these 116" wheelbased vehicles.

I've towed a 9000# travel trailer all over the country with my 138" wheelbased Ford Excursion...my 13 and 15 year old daughters have been in 41 states so far with 38 of them via the Excursion...so...I know about towing and have been towing for many many years...

The biggest thing to remember about the "tow ratings" is that it is for a basically STRIPPED DOWN vehicle with a 150# driver ALONE...all passengers and cargo inside the tow vehicle SUBTRACT from the mfg "max" tow ratings...those "max" ratings are mostly ficticious for normal familes...

Towing a long and heavy trailer requires more than a tow vehicle...the mfg's are in a towing "war"...buyer beware...

Wheelbase is CRITICAL..as it resists the forces placed on the tow vehicle from the trailer...

Also critical is the use of a weight distribution hitch along with going to a CAT scale to understand weight distribution and tongue weights...

I'm not a big fan of towing with short wheel based vehicles like the Liberty...in fact our Liberty will be TOWED by a 266" wheelbased motorhome...but there are situations where the Liberty CAN safely tow a travel trailer...but the operator needs to be aware of the weights and balance...

Joe.
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Unread 09-12-2012, 05:41 PM   #21
TheMill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robibler
Hey guys great info. I was wondering if someone with knowledge could answer a more specific question: I have a 2010 kk no tow package or 4x4, and with an aftermarket hitch. I plan on purchasing a small 16 to 20 foot skiff or bay boat. Do you think I should have any problems launching? I'm not going to tow it much, if at all, on the interstate. I live in the keys and there are tons of boat ramps. I was thanks guys.
You should have no problems at all towing a 20ft boat or launching the boat. If the ramp is really steep just put it in 4 wheel drive and she'll pull it out no problems.
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Unread 09-13-2012, 05:44 PM   #22
Paws4It
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crappyfisherman View Post
WHEELBASE or lack there of...is the biggest enemy of these 116" wheelbased vehicles.

I've towed a 9000# travel trailer all over the country with my 138" wheelbased Ford Excursion...my 13 and 15 year old daughters have been in 41 states so far with 38 of them via the Excursion...so...I know about towing and have been towing for many many years...

The biggest thing to remember about the "tow ratings" is that it is for a basically STRIPPED DOWN vehicle with a 150# driver ALONE...all passengers and cargo inside the tow vehicle SUBTRACT from the mfg "max" tow ratings...those "max" ratings are mostly ficticious for normal familes...

Towing a long and heavy trailer requires more than a tow vehicle...the mfg's are in a towing "war"...buyer beware...

Wheelbase is CRITICAL..as it resists the forces placed on the tow vehicle from the trailer...

Also critical is the use of a weight distribution hitch along with going to a CAT scale to understand weight distribution and tongue weights...

I'm not a big fan of towing with short wheel based vehicles like the Liberty...in fact our Liberty will be TOWED by a 266" wheelbased motorhome...but there are situations where the Liberty CAN safely tow a travel trailer...but the operator needs to be aware of the weights and balance...

Joe.
The wheelbase has came to my attention too. The only way to help that is to get the smallest lightest trailer, in my opinion. That's all I want to tow anyway, is a bedroom on wheels. lol I didnt know about the part of counting the weight in the Jeep too... thanks for the info!
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Unread 09-18-2012, 07:23 AM   #23
crappyfisherman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paws4It View Post
The wheelbase has came to my attention too. The only way to help that is to get the smallest lightest trailer, in my opinion. That's all I want to tow anyway, is a bedroom on wheels. lol I didnt know about the part of counting the weight in the Jeep too... thanks for the info!

As long as you stick with the shortest trailer you can find...you should be fine...the "leverage" a trailer has on a tow vehicle is more than folks realize...wheelbase is how the tow vehicle resists that "leverage" effect...

Tongue weight is also critical for you...you will need to insure that your trailer is loaded properly to have MINIMUM of 10% of the to total trailer weight show up as tongue weight...better is 12-13% tongue weight...and the only way to know that you have the proper tongue weight is to go and get your setup weighed!

There are various methods to weigh your setup and come up with the tongue weight...and if you will be using a WD hitch you will want to go and make sure you have the WD setup properly too (I can elaborate more on that if you are using a WD hitch if needed).

But to simply weigh your tongue to insure you have the trailer loaded properly...with lighter trailers you can actually use a bathroom scale, some pieces of pipe and 2x4's to get everything you need...follow this link...

http://hildstrom.com/projects/tonguescale/index.html

Having too light of a tongue weight will give the trailer much more "advantage" and your load will be unstable...so make sure you have it loaded properly to have MINIMUM of 10% as tongue weight.

Have you considered the purchase of a WD hitch with sway control?...given the short wheel base of the vehicle...I think (IMO) it would be a wise investment...it really does help equilize the load and put weight BACK ON the FRONT axle after the tongue weight UNLOADS it...the WD hitch gives you an added advantage of returning the natural balance of the tow vehicle by shifting some of the tongue weight FORWARD and AFT...and distributing the load back to where it needs to be...think about it...you will see many Mini-Vans and smaller vehicles that tow popups using WD hitches...and they are smart to do so...again IMO...

As far as not knowing about weight inside the vehicle SUBTRACTING from those MFG mythical tow ratings...don't feel bad...most people do not understand tow ratings either!

The funny (and sad thing) is that most people will only go by ONE number in the tow ratings wars...okay maybe two...first they'll use the GCWR with is the MOST the total COMBINED (the C in gCwr) tow vehicle AND trailer can weigh. The next one they will go by is the MAX tow rating they see on television.

The problem with that approach is that the GCWR or "Max" tow rating are only two of the 4 or 5 numbers you need to balance and be UNDER ALL OF THEM!

Typically on any tow vechicle the first number you will EXCEED is the GVWR of the tow vehicle...and that one is how much the TOW VEHICLE can weigh with tongue weight, vehicle weight with factory options and then all the people and gear INSIDE the tow vehicle...most vehicles LACK sufficient payload for large families and gear let alone added tongue weight...and you will almost always EXCEED this GVWR of the tow vehicle FIRST...but people ignore that one when looking at towing.

Second one you will typically exceed is the REAR gross axle weight rating (GAWR-R)...once you load up all your gear in the BACK of the tow vehicle and add rear seat passengers and then add TONGUE WEIGHT...watch the rear axle rating...it is very easy to exceed in many SUV's...this one too is IGNORED by many who tow.

Next to be exceeded will either be the MAX tow rating or GCWR (vehicle and trailer dependent on which will be maxed first)...the problem with the MAX tow rating is that it is only achievable with a 150# driver and a STRIPPED DOWN vehicle that truly weighs "curb weight"...how many vehicles truly weigh "curb weight"?...add in the heated leather seats, hitch reciever, DVD player with monitors, GPS, sunroof, on and on with the options list...all of those "goodies" SUBTRACT from the MAX tow rating...and if you are fortunate enough to weigh 150#'s...LOL...

Now add in your passengers and gear...that too SUBTRACTS from the MAX tow rating...how many 150# people drive a stripped down vehicle to go camping?...kind of boring to camp alone isn't it?...well you get the picture...

The "MAX" rating is IMO a mytical number...but many don't realize that you have to SUBTRACT the weight INSIDE the tow vehicle from that "MAX" number...and that's how they get in trouble weight wise.

The easiest way to "size" the proper trailer...load up your tow vehicle as you would when towing...all the people and gear that you will haul INSIDE the tow vehicle...and go to the scales and get individual front and rear axle weights (all CAT scales are set up for THREE individual scale readings)...you simply put the front axle on one scale pad and the rear axle on the other scale pad...now you know individual axle weights and you know TOTAL vehicle weight...

You can thus compare your measured readings against the GAWR front and rear as well as the GVWR...all of these numbers will be on a sticker on the drivers side door jamb.

You can simply subtract the actual weight of the tow vehicle from the GVWR and that tells you how much PAYLOAD you have left for TONGUE weight so you don't exceed the GVWR once loaded for a trip and hitched up...

Knowing how much tongue weight you can carry you can simply do the math to reverse calculate the weight of the trailer you can look at. Simply divide the remaining payload by 0.13 (i.e. 13% tongue weight) and you have the maximum weight of the trailer you can be looking at.

Okay...sorry for the long post...I'll stop now as to not confuse you any further.

Hope this helps...let me know if you have any questions.

Good luck,
joe.
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Unread 09-19-2012, 10:37 AM   #24
Paws4It
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: , WV
Posts: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by crappyfisherman View Post
As long as you stick with the shortest trailer you can find...you should be fine...the "leverage" a trailer has on a tow vehicle is more than folks realize...wheelbase is how the tow vehicle resists that "leverage" effect...

Tongue weight is also critical for you...you will need to insure that your trailer is loaded properly to have MINIMUM of 10% of the to total trailer weight show up as tongue weight...better is 12-13% tongue weight...and the only way to know that you have the proper tongue weight is to go and get your setup weighed!

There are various methods to weigh your setup and come up with the tongue weight...and if you will be using a WD hitch you will want to go and make sure you have the WD setup properly too (I can elaborate more on that if you are using a WD hitch if needed).

But to simply weigh your tongue to insure you have the trailer loaded properly...with lighter trailers you can actually use a bathroom scale, some pieces of pipe and 2x4's to get everything you need...follow this link...

http://hildstrom.com/projects/tonguescale/index.html

Having too light of a tongue weight will give the trailer much more "advantage" and your load will be unstable...so make sure you have it loaded properly to have MINIMUM of 10% as tongue weight.

Have you considered the purchase of a WD hitch with sway control?...given the short wheel base of the vehicle...I think (IMO) it would be a wise investment...it really does help equilize the load and put weight BACK ON the FRONT axle after the tongue weight UNLOADS it...the WD hitch gives you an added advantage of returning the natural balance of the tow vehicle by shifting some of the tongue weight FORWARD and AFT...and distributing the load back to where it needs to be...think about it...you will see many Mini-Vans and smaller vehicles that tow popups using WD hitches...and they are smart to do so...again IMO...

As far as not knowing about weight inside the vehicle SUBTRACTING from those MFG mythical tow ratings...don't feel bad...most people do not understand tow ratings either!

The funny (and sad thing) is that most people will only go by ONE number in the tow ratings wars...okay maybe two...first they'll use the GCWR with is the MOST the total COMBINED (the C in gCwr) tow vehicle AND trailer can weigh. The next one they will go by is the MAX tow rating they see on television.

The problem with that approach is that the GCWR or "Max" tow rating are only two of the 4 or 5 numbers you need to balance and be UNDER ALL OF THEM!

Typically on any tow vechicle the first number you will EXCEED is the GVWR of the tow vehicle...and that one is how much the TOW VEHICLE can weigh with tongue weight, vehicle weight with factory options and then all the people and gear INSIDE the tow vehicle...most vehicles LACK sufficient payload for large families and gear let alone added tongue weight...and you will almost always EXCEED this GVWR of the tow vehicle FIRST...but people ignore that one when looking at towing.

Second one you will typically exceed is the REAR gross axle weight rating (GAWR-R)...once you load up all your gear in the BACK of the tow vehicle and add rear seat passengers and then add TONGUE WEIGHT...watch the rear axle rating...it is very easy to exceed in many SUV's...this one too is IGNORED by many who tow.

Next to be exceeded will either be the MAX tow rating or GCWR (vehicle and trailer dependent on which will be maxed first)...the problem with the MAX tow rating is that it is only achievable with a 150# driver and a STRIPPED DOWN vehicle that truly weighs "curb weight"...how many vehicles truly weigh "curb weight"?...add in the heated leather seats, hitch reciever, DVD player with monitors, GPS, sunroof, on and on with the options list...all of those "goodies" SUBTRACT from the MAX tow rating...and if you are fortunate enough to weigh 150#'s...LOL...

Now add in your passengers and gear...that too SUBTRACTS from the MAX tow rating...how many 150# people drive a stripped down vehicle to go camping?...kind of boring to camp alone isn't it?...well you get the picture...

The "MAX" rating is IMO a mytical number...but many don't realize that you have to SUBTRACT the weight INSIDE the tow vehicle from that "MAX" number...and that's how they get in trouble weight wise.

The easiest way to "size" the proper trailer...load up your tow vehicle as you would when towing...all the people and gear that you will haul INSIDE the tow vehicle...and go to the scales and get individual front and rear axle weights (all CAT scales are set up for THREE individual scale readings)...you simply put the front axle on one scale pad and the rear axle on the other scale pad...now you know individual axle weights and you know TOTAL vehicle weight...

You can thus compare your measured readings against the GAWR front and rear as well as the GVWR...all of these numbers will be on a sticker on the drivers side door jamb.

You can simply subtract the actual weight of the tow vehicle from the GVWR and that tells you how much PAYLOAD you have left for TONGUE weight so you don't exceed the GVWR once loaded for a trip and hitched up...

Knowing how much tongue weight you can carry you can simply do the math to reverse calculate the weight of the trailer you can look at. Simply divide the remaining payload by 0.13 (i.e. 13% tongue weight) and you have the maximum weight of the trailer you can be looking at.

Okay...sorry for the long post...I'll stop now as to not confuse you any further.

Hope this helps...let me know if you have any questions.

Good luck,
joe.
Oh no, dont apologize for the long post, Joe! I appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge. Thank you!
The Jeep has the factory tow and sway bar already. I'm looking at the Shadow Cruiser that is a super light trailer, and think it will do just fine. Doing my home work on the trailers I think those are about as light as you can find.
Again, thanks Joe!
I'll go check out the link now.
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Unread 09-19-2012, 10:49 AM   #25
Paws4It
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crappyfisherman View Post




But to simply weigh your tongue to insure you have the trailer loaded properly...with lighter trailers you can actually use a bathroom scale, some pieces of pipe and 2x4's to get everything you need...follow this link...

http://hildstrom.com/projects/tonguescale/index.html


Okay...sorry for the long post...I'll stop now as to not confuse you any further.

Hope this helps...let me know if you have any questions.

Good luck,
joe.


Fantastic link! That amazed me to see that! lol
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Unread 10-16-2012, 03:14 PM   #26
DeltaForceB85
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The question is usually not "can I pull it" it's always "can I stop it?" The engine and tranny in the KK will pull just about anything if you respect it and take your time getting up to speed. Your brakes will fail long before your engine or tranny if you pull a heavy load. If the trailer has on board brakes you can pull stuff even heavier than 5000lbs. Just take your time.

I'm sure there are those who will disagree, but I'm speaking from experience so let them theorize all they want. In the real world I've done it consistently. My first driving lessons as a kid were towing a 21 foot long tractor trailer.
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2008 Jeep Liberty KK W/Selec Trac II, ADL Skid Plate Group, 245/70/16 All Terrain Destinations, VisionX LED Floodlights. It's a real jeep. Don't like it? Wait let me check. Yep, still a real jeep.

Last edited by DeltaForceB85; 10-16-2012 at 05:10 PM..
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Unread 10-18-2012, 01:14 AM   #27
Paws4It
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Won't having a trailer brake put on the Jeep, stop it?
Ok, so here is where I am.. looking at a Rockwood mini lite! It's mid 3000 dry weight with mid 200 tongue weight. The book says my Jeep can tow 5000 pounds with the tow package. Not that I would believe that.
Now what do you all think about that? I was told you dont have to load the RV up with water, since you will fill up when you get to where you are going. Still, I'm concerned if it can really do it. Also, would have the sway hitch put on.
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Unread 10-19-2012, 02:18 PM   #28
DeltaForceB85
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The owners manual gives you a technical breakdown of tongue weight and maximum payload if that's what your looking for. I can take a picture of that section if you don't have it. Doubt it's changed much from 08 to 12. There's a raging debate about this on another thread.

The bottom line is if you can safely stop it, you can safely pull it. 3000lbs isn't a heavy load, I've pulled about 3200 in a little bitty Toyota pickup truck with a slightly smaller engine and much worse brakes than the KK with no problems. I actually had to slam on my brakes for an idiot in a compact, stopped just fine.

RVing tip: Fill up where the water is good. Some of the places we went as a kid had water so bad it tasted like crap even after we filtered it.
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2008 Jeep Liberty KK W/Selec Trac II, ADL Skid Plate Group, 245/70/16 All Terrain Destinations, VisionX LED Floodlights. It's a real jeep. Don't like it? Wait let me check. Yep, still a real jeep.
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Unread 10-20-2012, 07:52 AM   #29
crappyfisherman
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Location: Fort Wayne, IN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paws4It View Post
Won't having a trailer brake put on the Jeep, stop it?
Ok, so here is where I am.. looking at a Rockwood mini lite! It's mid 3000 dry weight with mid 200 tongue weight. The book says my Jeep can tow 5000 pounds with the tow package. Not that I would believe that.
Now what do you all think about that? I was told you dont have to load the RV up with water, since you will fill up when you get to where you are going. Still, I'm concerned if it can really do it. Also, would have the sway hitch put on.
First off...the Rockwood will have brakes on it since the trailer is over 3000#'s...you WILL need a brake controller in the Jeep...look at Prodigy...it is best (IMO) out there for the money...I towed 10's of thousands of miles pulling a 9000# TT all over the country with the Prodigy...great brake controller.

As far as the TT you are looking at having a mid 3000's dry weight and a 200# tongue weight...see my lengthy post above about having your loaded tongue weight in the 12-13% range...those numbers of 3000/200 are horrible!

The only way to know is to go to a scale and get weighed...it is painless and inexpensive...and that's the only way you will get fully loaded weight of the TT to be able to use the bathroom scale approach to tweak tongue weight.

As far as "can you do it"...the answer to that is in the numbers...load up the TT and hit the scale and weigh both your TT AND your KK...note the math I provided above about looking at ALL the numbers and not just the ones you like...examine the GVWR of the KK after you load up your familly and gear, examine the REAR GAWR once you are hooked up to the TT...remember the "Max" tow rating you are quoting of 5000#'s is with a CURB weighted KK and a single 150# driver...that number goes down for EACH and EVERY pound your KK weighs over CURB including people and gear and options you have inside the KK.

As far as sway control...definitely...I'd look at the Equal-I-zer BRAND hitch which has WD AND Sway control in one hitch...definitely worth the money to help off set the wheelbase DISadvantage you are under with the shorter wheelbase of the KK for hauling longer trailers...even ones that will weigh low 4000's once you load it up which doesn't sound like a lot...but your KK weighs 4000's too...so it is an equal match and the trick is to keep the balance of control with the KK and not have it shift to the TT...you do that through PROPER weight distribution and loading and the only way to know for sure...is at a CAT scale...

Good luck,
Joe.
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Unread 10-21-2012, 04:19 PM   #30
Paws4It
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaForceB85 View Post
The owners manual gives you a technical breakdown of tongue weight and maximum payload if that's what your looking for. I can take a picture of that section if you don't have it. Doubt it's changed much from 08 to 12. There's a raging debate about this on another thread.

The bottom line is if you can safely stop it, you can safely pull it. 3000lbs isn't a heavy load, I've pulled about 3200 in a little bitty Toyota pickup truck with a slightly smaller engine and much worse brakes than the KK with no problems. I actually had to slam on my brakes for an idiot in a compact, stopped just fine.

RVing tip: Fill up where the water is good. Some of the places we went as a kid had water so bad it tasted like crap even after we filtered it.

Thank you for that tip (about the water) and making me feel better that you pulled with a little truck. You give me hope.
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