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Unread 03-08-2005, 04:25 PM   #1
dizzy1
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Synthetic Oil vs. Convential Oil

In the past I have seen threads on people using synthetic oil for the V6 Liberty. However, I do not see the advantage. I read the owners manual and it states that they recommend using 5w-30 conventional. It did say that the engine can use 5w-30 synthetic. If conventional oil is changed every 3,000 miles I can not see spending the extra money for synthetic. What advantages does synthetic have? Does it improve gas milage, if so how? Also, how often does it need to be changed? Thanks for everyone's help.

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Unread 03-08-2005, 04:52 PM   #2
Blue_Liberty
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In my opinion, synthetic would not make much of a difference.

I think anyone who buys synthetic so they can avoid changing their oil every 3000 is asking for trouble. True, the synthetic oil does not break down as quickly as conventional, but that is only one reason you change your oil. Their are other contaminents that are floating around in your oil that come from various parts of the engine. Many small enough to escape the oil filter. These, over time, can shorten the life of your engine. You change your oil to clean these out of your engine. They exist whether you are using conventional or synthetic oil.

There is something else that people who use synthetics sometimes forget. Their oil says they can go 10,000 miles between oil changes, but they forget to check to see if their filter can go that long too. An over-used filter starts to become less effective, thus defeating the purpose.

Just my 2 cents.
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Unread 03-08-2005, 05:55 PM   #3
Ripster
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I have used syn since 75, my VW came with it, the Liberty Diesel comes with it and there are benefits, but an oil discussion I try to stay away from. Lets just say if you are changing your oil every 3000 thats fine, but the money and engine longevity of syn are proven and most car boards have all kinds of threads discussing the benefits. I am syn from one end to the other of my Liberty and it pays dividends in cold and hot weather.
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Unread 03-08-2005, 08:28 PM   #4
Cards81fan
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The advantage of synthetic over conventional oil is the extended drain cycles, assuming the conventional oil is of good base stock and has a good additive package (eg, shell rotella, motorcraft, Mystik) and you change the filter as required if you go extended change.

If your oil is good and you are only going 3k between changes, conventional is fine.

Now for other than engine oil, I would recommend synthetic, as we know those often go over their recommended change intervals, and the difference between regular and synthetic gear oils and trans fluid can be much greater than engine oil.
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Unread 03-08-2005, 08:29 PM   #5
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Oh and for more opinions than you can ever stomach, check www.bobistheoilguy.com
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Unread 03-08-2005, 11:18 PM   #6
roderunner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Liberty
True, the synthetic oil does not break down as quickly as conventional, but that is only one reason you change your oil. Their are other contaminents that are floating around in your oil that come from various parts of the engine. Many small enough to escape the oil filter. These, over time, can shorten the life of your engine. You change your oil to clean these out of your engine. They exist whether you are using conventional or synthetic oil.
Well said. The only significant advantage synthetic oil seems to have is during initial start ups in cold winter areas. Synthetics do not thicken as much in extremely cold weather and can begin lubricating the top portions of your engine sooner than comparably weighted conventional oils.

Most conventional oils (SL/SM) now use a friction modifier (molybdenum) for better mileage. I don't think synthetics offer any advantage there.

Many synthetic oil users would be surprised to learn that the majority of "synthetic" oils are actually formulated with group III (high quality -- and highly profitable) conventional oils. I use conventional w/3000 mile changes and spend my savings on other goodies!
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Unread 03-09-2005, 07:32 AM   #7
SRotblat
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I use synth oils in my KJ because I only change it on a 6k basis, with my extensive driving (~42k in 13 months) I can drive over 6k miles in a 2.5 month period. Doing changes at 3k would be much more costly for me...
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Unread 03-09-2005, 08:14 AM   #8
LibertyV6
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Quote:
Synthetics do not thicken as much in extremely cold weather
Motor Oil doesn't thicken at all. the 5W-30 designation means that at start-up, or cold starts, the oil behaves like a 5 weight, and as your engine reaches operating temperature, the oil actually thins out, but it behaves closer to a 30 weight now, providing greater protection against friction.

First of all, if you use conventional 5w-30 and change it, along with your filter, every 3000 miles--- do not tow, don't drive 85mph on the beltway, and do not go on a lot of short trips (less than 4 or 5 miles), then your engine will be very happy.

Now onto the benefits of Synthetic. As mentioned in an above post, Syn does NOT break down, but it does get dirty, as does your filter. However, dirt and contaminants have a greter affect on conventional oil than syn. Does dirty oil still suck whether it's conventional or syn, of course.

Syn can help your mileage improve because it resists higher temperatures far far far greater than conventional. So your engine will not be quite as hot, and if you are really dogging your motor, syn can help prevent the heads from warping on you. Syn also makes a faster lube job during cold winter weather start-ups-- you only have to let a new motor with syn oil run for about 30 seconds and then you should start driving.

Syn's 5000 change interval is great. I used to go over the 3000 mile recommendation for conventional oil in my old car anyway--- so what's another 1500 miles? I agree that if you go over 5000 miles you should at least change your filter in between, but the lubrication of Syn is so far superior to conventional that the longer drain time is recommended.

When you buy a new vehicle, the key thing is to run on the stock conventional oil for the first 1000 miles so your engine can 'mark itself'. The one thing I will say is that once you go Syn, you should not go back to conventional. And once your car has over, let's say, 30,000 miles, you should not switch over to synthetic. Overall, the price difference is the thing I notice most. Conventional oil is 80 cents a quart if you find it on sale------ If Syn is less than 3.50 bucks a qt. I'd buy 10 cases!

Both oils are good in their own right. I prefer Syn because it will prolong engine life, and to me, that is worth 12 extra bucks per oil change.

BTW, you all should use Fram oil filters with the black grip on the top-- They are way better than mopar.
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Unread 03-09-2005, 08:22 AM   #9
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this is always the kind of thread where huge debates rage, and people get po'd.

i run full syn in my libby front to rear, and in my yj. flow properties at low temps is a big reason (currenly about 15deg.)(damn its cold oustide)and it handles extended higher temps better. i still dump it at the 3k mark, had it tested by a fleet guy and was rated to go about 7-8k in my yj which has 95k on it.

So let the debate rage on! Enjoy
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Unread 03-09-2005, 10:42 AM   #10
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Yep this is the threads that people get all up tight about and red in the face. And I have come to believe it's usually the old school people that don't want to believe or learn about synthetic oils and just think they are snake oils or something. i used to believe this myself then I went and did as much reading as I could find. And yes I read and looked at graphs and everyone that don't believe them say they are rigged and this that and the other. But this is what I have found from my research.

Synthetics are like conventional oils in one aspect. There are good synthetics and there are bad synthetics just like conventional oil. So if your gonna use synthetic use a good synthetic and don't waste money on a synthetic blend. From the stuff I read Amsoil, Mobil 1, Neo, and Redline are the best synthetics out there. And if you go by their guidelines on extended drains you save money over changing oil every 3000miles with conventional oil. Thats where a lot of people go wrong and think it costs more. They think they still have to change the oil 3000miles with synthetics. If you do that yes it costs more. But if you change your oil twice a year like I do you save money. And with synthetics you can usually see a 5-15degree temp drop in the engine under normal load. But you can use oil that you only change 1 time a year, but you have to change the filter at 6months then just top off the oil. Synthetics break down, but not as fast. And they have a better cold pour/flow rate. They don't thicken up into syrup when cold and have a higher heat resistance. The info is out there to read and learn these things and theres no reason to say they are all lies. They can prove all this with tests they have done on oil analysis. Either believe it or don't the choice is yours and the whole it costs more money doesn't hold water if you follow the guidelines for extended drain periods. So thats not an issue. But I will ask you this. If it's not any better why does GM require it in Corvettes or it voids the warranty and other cars like BMWs and Porsche require it as well? It must do something.
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Unread 03-09-2005, 12:12 PM   #11
lavalva
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The part about not changing from conventional to synthetic after a certain mileage is not true at all. I read a few studies, there is no harm at all.
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Unread 03-09-2005, 01:33 PM   #12
Steven73
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synthetics vs. conventional

I always use conventional, with a filter and oil replacement every 3,000 miles...cause I'm cheap. I'd rather spend money on accessories, and feel comfortable with changing the oil and filter at the 3 month/ 3,000 mile marker.
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Unread 03-09-2005, 02:13 PM   #13
jeepom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slipslap
Yep this is the threads that people get all up tight about and red in the face. And I have come to believe it's usually the old school people that don't want to believe or learn about synthetic oils and just think they are snake oils or something. i used to believe this myself then I went and did as much reading as I could find. And yes I read and looked at graphs and everyone that don't believe them say they are rigged and this that and the other. But this is what I have found from my research.
I know all about syn oils, I've used them in the past. I just don't think it's worth the money - I change oil every 3 to 4 k My wife's car (on synthetic) has about 118K, runs tight. My daughter's car has about 155K runs tight - all dino oil changes. I seldom keep vehicles long enough to matter - except for my pickup - roughly 180k all dino.

What makes folks red in the face is that others don't agree with them and do what they do. I'll stick with dino, it's worked fine for me - they all can do what they want - I won't mind a bit!
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Unread 03-09-2005, 02:20 PM   #14
TRO
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Is there opinions on Royal Purple synthetic oil? I see it pushed on some TV shows. Or is it just slick marketing? No pun intended.
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Unread 03-09-2005, 02:51 PM   #15
Slipslap
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Royal Purple is a good choice to. It was rated next to the other ones I listed in the studies I read.

I don't get mad if people don't believe me or do what I do. I do get upset that people will use synthetic and still change it at 3000miles. that almost completely defeits the purpose of using it. If your gonna change it at 3000miles save your money and use conventional oil. But in the end it's everyone's choice and I'll just do what I can to pass on the knowledge I have learned from reading tons of sites and articles.
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