CRD cold start - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep Liberty Forums > KJ Liberty Forum > CRD cold start

RIGID LED Light Blowout Sale - All Sizes, All Series, all ECGS Black Friday Sale!!6th Annual, Beat Your Wife to the Credit Card Sale!

Reply
Unread 11-30-2006, 08:19 AM   #1
dfw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 94
CRD cold start

Overnight was the coldest this year and hit -6 by morning. For the first time I had a hard time starting the 05 (CRD 19k). I could not use the block heater. Last year the coldest start without the block heater was -10 and it started easily, although ran rough for a little while. This morning it took about 25 attempts before it would continue to run after disengaging the starter. The starter seemed to have plenty of juice.

I am running about 10% biodiesel. Based on the data, 20% bio mix should be good to at least -20. Since I have always run with bio mix, I don't think that is a factor.

The only difference between last year and this year is the ULSD. Do you think ULSD may be harder to start? Your thoughts.

dfw is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 11-30-2006, 10:21 AM   #2
BVCRD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Buena Vista, Colorado
Posts: 1,509
Your problem is the bio. It does thicken up quicker than ULSD. Mine started up fine this AM at -12*. Some warm up time was needed. I had a body modual recall-reflash in the summer and it was supposed to give me an enhanced glow plug operation, meaning they stay on longer when cold. Helps ignite the fuel quicker. If you can't do this, try cycling the glow plugs. Turn on the switch, but do not attempt to start. Turn off, then turn on again and let them get good and hot before trying to start.
__________________
2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD
BVCRD is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 11-30-2006, 09:22 PM   #3
RFCRD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 460
You may also want to consider replacing the fuel filter if it's still the original at 19K miles. You may be experiencing a combination of factors. Trying to suck a frigid, cloudy biodiesel mix throught stale filter is a definate possibility for your problems.
RFCRD is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 12-02-2006, 05:24 PM   #4
Tough Guy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hamilton, Montana
Posts: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfw
Overnight was the coldest this year and hit -6 by morning. For the first time I had a hard time starting the 05 (CRD 19k). I could not use the block heater. Last year the coldest start without the block heater was -10 and it started easily, although ran rough for a little while. This morning it took about 25 attempts before it would continue to run after disengaging the starter. The starter seemed to have plenty of juice.

I am running about 10% biodiesel. Based on the data, 20% bio mix should be good to at least -20. Since I have always run with bio mix, I don't think that is a factor.

The only difference between last year and this year is the ULSD. Do you think ULSD may be harder to start? Your thoughts.

You should consider using a winter fuel additive such as Power Service winter formula (white bottle) found at most fueling stations, Wal-Mart etc...I use it and have been very happy with the results. Quicker starts, lower gel temps, injector cleaner and Cetane boost increases fuel economy...Its good stuff, I have used it every fill-up in my Diesels for years.

Chris
__________________
[b]2006 Jeep Liberty CRD Sport 4X4[/b] 2/06 Build Date. Stock for now....
[b]1999 F-250 PSD Crew Cab S/B Lariat 4X4[/b] SCT and DP-Tuned, Turbo-Master, MBRP 4" Exhaust, Billet Triple Disc TC, HD TransGo Tugger, AIS, Fumoto, Triple Gauge Pod, Autometer Phantoms, Sirius....
Tough Guy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 12-02-2006, 11:38 PM   #5
rmnoonan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 26
I would disagree that your problem is biodiesel. I do also think that an additive may be a good idea. I had the same issue in a northern michigan major cold spell... the liberty '05 crd wouldn't start in the morning. I agree with you that the battery and starter have PLENTY of juice, but the CRD just wouldn't turn over. Before I ran the battery dry, I plugged in the block heater and it started up instantly!
rmnoonan is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 12-03-2006, 08:04 AM   #6
dfw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 94
Since I posted about difficulty starting at -6, I have researched the ULSD issue. Keep in mind my report was intended to illustrate that all other things were the same, but my CRD would not start easily in significantly warmer conditions (without the block heater) than my experience a year ago. I have reached these conclusions:

1. My fuel filter was replaced only several months ago, so I don't believe that is the cause.

2. I have used biodiesel consistently but under 20% and usually 5 to 10 %. Based on the biodiesel information available on the web, concentrations less than 20% do not impact cold start capability.

3. I found a number of references indicating that ULSD has reduced cold flow capability compared to LSD. This article captures what I read:

"Cold Weather Considerations
The refining process used to attain the sulfur ratio of ULSD affects the naturally occurring paraffins (wax) inherent in diesel fuel in such a way that can cause the fuel to gel more readily in cold temperatures.

"Though most retail fuel should be properly winterized for your local climate, some testing and experimenting with additional treatment processes will probably be in order. Higher doses of anti-gel additives may be necessary for extremely low temperatures—and not all additives that have traditionally been used for treating conventional low sulfur diesel will be compatible with—or effective—on ULSD.

"First look for packaging labels that indicate compatibility with ULSD.
Secondly, be aware that mixing conventional low sulfur kerosene with ULSD as a flow enhancer will increase the sulfur ratio and could damage emissions control equipment. And furthermore, even in cases where it is available—cutting ULSD with ultra low sulfur kerosene may be ineffective as a flow enhancer.
The winter of 2006-07 will indeed be a learning experience for diesel owners using ULSD."


Additionally, I theorize that with the recent roll out of ULSD, the annual seasonal diesel #2 adjustments and altered fuel refining/delivery in the post Katrina era, may be significantly distrupted. In fact, I read one web page stating, for example, the USLD #1 (used for seasonal blending) is in short supply.

What am I going to do about it? I am going to change my usual source of diesel supply to a retailer that has more volume with the hope that a fresher source of USLD will be properly seasonally blended. Secondly, I am going to look for some ULSD specified additives for use in December/January period when it is really cold. I can't always use the block heater!

I hope others in the cold regions will continue to report their ULSD experiences as we go through this winter.
dfw is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 12-03-2006, 08:56 AM   #7
RFCRD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 460
My experience with many diesels are the fire quickly in the cold when very new and still very tight. Once they break-in, it take some work to get them running in extreme cold because the metals contract/shrink causing them to loose compression. At times I have started diesel engines where half the cylinders don't fire for several seconds, lighting-up one hole at a time in an eye-burning smokey cloud.

One trick to try this winter: If you crank it over and it doesn't fire, pause for several seconds (count to 10) and try again. The trick is to allows time for the fuel you injected on the first attempt to soak around the rings and give you a better seal.
RFCRD is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 12-03-2006, 03:14 PM   #8
Tough Guy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hamilton, Montana
Posts: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfw
Since I posted about difficulty starting at -6, I have researched the ULSD issue. Keep in mind my report was intended to illustrate that all other things were the same, but my CRD would not start easily in significantly warmer conditions (without the block heater) than my experience a year ago. I have reached these conclusions:

1. My fuel filter was replaced only several months ago, so I don't believe that is the cause.

2. I have used biodiesel consistently but under 20% and usually 5 to 10 %. Based on the biodiesel information available on the web, concentrations less than 20% do not impact cold start capability.

3. I found a number of references indicating that ULSD has reduced cold flow capability compared to LSD. This article captures what I read:

"Cold Weather Considerations
The refining process used to attain the sulfur ratio of ULSD affects the naturally occurring paraffins (wax) inherent in diesel fuel in such a way that can cause the fuel to gel more readily in cold temperatures.

"Though most retail fuel should be properly winterized for your local climate, some testing and experimenting with additional treatment processes will probably be in order. Higher doses of anti-gel additives may be necessary for extremely low temperatures—and not all additives that have traditionally been used for treating conventional low sulfur diesel will be compatible with—or effective—on ULSD.

"First look for packaging labels that indicate compatibility with ULSD.
Secondly, be aware that mixing conventional low sulfur kerosene with ULSD as a flow enhancer will increase the sulfur ratio and could damage emissions control equipment. And furthermore, even in cases where it is available—cutting ULSD with ultra low sulfur kerosene may be ineffective as a flow enhancer.
The winter of 2006-07 will indeed be a learning experience for diesel owners using ULSD."


Additionally, I theorize that with the recent roll out of ULSD, the annual seasonal diesel #2 adjustments and altered fuel refining/delivery in the post Katrina era, may be significantly distrupted. In fact, I read one web page stating, for example, the USLD #1 (used for seasonal blending) is in short supply.

What am I going to do about it? I am going to change my usual source of diesel supply to a retailer that has more volume with the hope that a fresher source of USLD will be properly seasonally blended. Secondly, I am going to look for some ULSD specified additives for use in December/January period when it is really cold. I can't always use the block heater!

I hope others in the cold regions will continue to report their ULSD experiences as we go through this winter.

Please re-read my previous post....

Power Service IS compatible with ULSD and WILL help you.

Chris
__________________
[b]2006 Jeep Liberty CRD Sport 4X4[/b] 2/06 Build Date. Stock for now....
[b]1999 F-250 PSD Crew Cab S/B Lariat 4X4[/b] SCT and DP-Tuned, Turbo-Master, MBRP 4" Exhaust, Billet Triple Disc TC, HD TransGo Tugger, AIS, Fumoto, Triple Gauge Pod, Autometer Phantoms, Sirius....
Tough Guy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 12-03-2006, 06:59 PM   #9
BVCRD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Buena Vista, Colorado
Posts: 1,509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tough Guy
Please re-read my previous post....

Power Service IS compatible with ULSD and WILL help you.

Chris



Yes, it says it right on the white bottle.
__________________
2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD
BVCRD is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 12-06-2006, 07:22 PM   #10
dfw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 94
Thank you tough guy. I bought a gallon of Power Service. Based on the claims on the bottle, it provides impressive cold starting improvement. Now it is too warm to really test it.
dfw is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 12-06-2006, 07:38 PM   #11
BVCRD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Buena Vista, Colorado
Posts: 1,509
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfw
Thank you tough guy. I bought a gallon of Power Service. Based on the claims on the bottle, it provides impressive cold starting improvement. Now it is too warm to really test it.


You will still get the benifits of the increased cetane numbers as well as the lubrication from it.
__________________
2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD
BVCRD is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 12-06-2006, 07:47 PM   #12
Tough Guy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hamilton, Montana
Posts: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfw
Thank you tough guy. I bought a gallon of Power Service. Based on the claims on the bottle, it provides impressive cold starting improvement. Now it is too warm to really test it.

I use a shot every fill-up... Its good stuff.

Chris
__________________
[b]2006 Jeep Liberty CRD Sport 4X4[/b] 2/06 Build Date. Stock for now....
[b]1999 F-250 PSD Crew Cab S/B Lariat 4X4[/b] SCT and DP-Tuned, Turbo-Master, MBRP 4" Exhaust, Billet Triple Disc TC, HD TransGo Tugger, AIS, Fumoto, Triple Gauge Pod, Autometer Phantoms, Sirius....
Tough Guy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 12-15-2006, 08:47 AM   #13
SliderCRD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto,Ontario,Canada
Posts: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tough Guy
You should consider using a winter fuel additive such as Power Service winter formula (white bottle) found at most fueling stations, Wal-Mart etc...I use it and have been very happy with the results. Quicker starts, lower gel temps, injector cleaner and Cetane boost increases fuel economy...Its good stuff, I have used it every fill-up in my Diesels for years.

Chris
question on the Power Service product,,,,I have a new 06 CRD with only 5,000kms( 3000 miles) should I start using it now?....no issues witha new engine?....do you use it only in cold weather?...if so what temp ranges?

being in Toronto we get some cold weather but not extreme ....however I spend a lot of time 150 miles north in cottage country were cold temps are common
SliderCRD is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 12-15-2006, 08:54 AM   #14
BVCRD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Buena Vista, Colorado
Posts: 1,509
Quote:
Originally Posted by SliderCRD
question on the Power Service product,,,,I have a new 06 CRD with only 5,000kms( 3000 miles) should I start using it now?....no issues witha new engine?....do you use it only in cold weather?...if so what temp ranges?

being in Toronto we get some cold weather but not extreme ....however I spend a lot of time 150 miles north in cottage country were cold temps are common



Yes, every tankfull. It keeps the fuel from gelling, adds lubrication, engine runs quieter, cleans injectors. Just good cheap insurance. Had it in my 2006 since day one. They make a summer bottle (silver) for times when the anti gelling isn't needed.
__________________
2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD
BVCRD is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 12-15-2006, 08:56 AM   #15
SliderCRD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto,Ontario,Canada
Posts: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVCRD
Yes, every tankfull. It keeps the fuel from gelling, adds lubrication, engine runs quieter, cleans injectors. Just good cheap insurance. Had it in my 2006 since day one. They make a summer bottle (silver) for times when the anti gelling isn't needed.

thanks BVCRD ...do you run it all year round?...

I see it is common product here on the shelves in Ontario.....
SliderCRD is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.
Note: All free e-mails have been banned due to mis-use. (Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail, etc.)
Don't have a non-free e-mail address? Click here for a solution: Manual Account Creation
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools


Suggested Threads





Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.