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Unread 03-26-2014, 04:21 PM   #16
bilr514
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2003 KJ Liberty 
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Bentonville, AR
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Well, I partially tore down the engine last night and found a lot wrong really quickly. After pulling the valve covers, I discovered that the rocker arms for the #1 cylinder (?) were loose on top of the head and the timing chain was broken. Took it in to the machine shop today at lunch and they tore it down the rest of the way and the news didn't get much better. He said the driver's side head is ruined. He said the engine must have overheated and dropped the valve seat into the cylinder. The valve was jammed through the head sideways. There is a hole in the piston and it broke a rod on the other side. Good news is the block is OK but will need to be bored. The crank shaft is perfect but I will need a new head which is going to cost about $225 with shipping. Pictures below for those that may be curious.

small-2014-03-25-18.03.41.jpg   small-2014-03-25-18.03.52.jpg   small-2014-03-25-18.03.57.jpg   small-2014-03-25-18.04.42.jpg   small-2014-03-25-18.10.55.jpg  

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Unread 03-27-2014, 03:28 PM   #17
92JEEPWRANGLERY
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Well, that is exactly what I thought had happened from the look of that sparkplug picture. Not good news but at least the block is good. Good luck with the rebuild.
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Unread 03-28-2014, 08:33 AM   #18
olliehopnoodle
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That's too bad. Please see my note above about the HLA and timing adjusters. It will cost a little more now but will save some hassle later.
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Unread 03-28-2014, 08:45 AM   #19
JeepCoMJ
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You need to replace both heads with NEW, or just the one with a used known good. Would hate to see all the work dine to happen in the other side. The reman heads have the valve seats repaired to make it a non issue in the future
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Unread 03-28-2014, 06:35 PM   #20
bilr514
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Thanks for the pointers Olllie...I will talk to him about that...Dropped off a check at the shop today and he showed me the damage. Here's a pic of the bad head...
small-2014-03-28-08.08.01.jpg  
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Unread 03-28-2014, 06:39 PM   #21
bilr514
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JeepComJ - My engine guy has already sourced a guaranteed "buildable" used head to replace the bad one.
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Unread 03-29-2014, 11:17 AM   #22
olliehopnoodle
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I would agree, in my shade tree mechanical opinion that head is bad.

I can't believe how lucky I was when my seat dropped. It bent the value just slightly but didn't damage the head or pistion. Part of that is probably because the rocker fell off and the engine died. The seat held the valve slightly open but not enough to interfere with the piston. The wife started it but it sounded really weird so she had it towed home. I had her start it and ran it for about 20 seconds and knew something was weird.
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Unread 03-29-2014, 11:23 AM   #23
JeepCoMJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bilr514 View Post
JeepComJ - My engine guy has already sourced a guaranteed "buildable" used head to replace the bad one.
It would be advisable to rebuild both, with new seats. They do this commonly...doing one and not another is bad.

Also, the new head MUST come with cam bearing caps. They are line bored so each cap MUST go in it's original location, or you will have incorrect tolerances. And replace all cam bearing cap bolts with factory chrysler new...they are torque to yield. Same goes for connecting rod bolts, and remember the rods are fracture rods so they can only go back together correctly one way...any other way, and you may as well toss a grenade in the engine before you start it.
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Unread 03-30-2014, 07:05 AM   #24
bilr514
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I appreciate the pointers JeepCoMJ...My engine guy is giving me a 12K mile warranty on the engine so really the stuff you mention is stuff he should have to worry and know already right? Every time I've talked to him he has seemed extremely knowledgeable...I hate to question him on this stuff..
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Unread 04-01-2014, 03:21 PM   #25
bilr514
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Ollie,

Talked to my engine guy today just to confirm. He said that he put a new timing kit on the engine which includes new chains, tensioners, gears, etc. so no issue there. Also, he said that he put all new valves in too so i think the concerns you had should be handled. I certainly appreciate the feedback guys.

Bill
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Unread 04-01-2014, 09:50 PM   #26
JeepCoMJ
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Valves are not valve seats. It is the valve seats that have issues, and unless he is a fully set up machine shop, he doesn't have the tooling to do that.


Good luck, but 12k mile warranty shouldn't need to be used...and for the money you are probably spending, 12k miles is a joke. I'm sure he is skilled, but ignoring known issues doesn't guarantee it won't happen again.
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Unread 04-01-2014, 09:54 PM   #27
bilr514
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He is a fully set up and reputable machine shop...I appreciate your concern, but I think I'm good.
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Unread 04-03-2014, 08:20 PM   #28
olliehopnoodle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bilr514 View Post
He is a fully set up and reputable machine shop...I appreciate your concern, but I think I'm good.
I didn't catch the subtle difference when I read your post. You might want to clarify with him that there is a known valve SEAT issue with these engines and ask him to do a little research. I had taken my v6 powerturd to a guy who I think is the best and who had rebuilt several engines for me. He rebuilt my v6 but did NOT swap out the valve seats. It is not normally done during a rebuild. Normally they are machined to match the valves but not replaced. It was only after my seat dropped that he also researched and found out this was one of the know problems with this engine.

The machine shop guys can't know everything about every engine. And there are a lot of different engines out there. They would have no reason to believe there is a problem with this part unless they do a lot of them.
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Unread 05-19-2014, 03:55 PM   #29
bilr514
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Got the engine back a probably 5 weeks ago but ran into quite a few problems with brakes (see other threads) and then decided to put my lift on before putting the engine back in. Seemed to make more sense as the engine was out and easier to get to the strut assembly nuts in the engine compartment. I finally got the engine dropped back in this weekend and married up to the transmission. I'll spend this week putting the top end back on. A few photos of the progress...
renegade-165.jpg  
renegade-226.jpg

renegade-228.jpg

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Unread 08-28-2014, 04:46 AM   #30
roaddawg45013
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Anymore progress? Final Pictures? Hows it running?
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