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Unread 10-28-2013, 09:58 PM   #1
jeeproocky
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2003 KJ Liberty 
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Marysville, WA
Posts: 21
2003 liberty sport swap 2005 engine wont start.

Hi,
My 2003 jeep liberty Sport V6-3.7L broke down so I bought 2005 engine (which the only available one I found). I removed the tone wheel on the crankshaft, reluctor ring on the camshaft, sensors on the old engine and installed on the new one. Set timing, good compression check (145-180). Got spark and fuel but the engine only crank over and wont run (it’s sound like wanted to run when I push o the gas pedal). Please help I am …….?
Greatly appreciated,


Last edited by jeeproocky; 11-13-2013 at 09:04 PM.. Reason: removed personal information
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Unread 10-28-2013, 11:15 PM   #2
streetglideok
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2005 KJ Liberty 
 
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Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
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How did you determine the engine has fuel? There are two steps to an engine getting fuel and both are important. First is fuel pressure, it needs to be in spec. Second is injector operation. Need to verify the injectors work, because if you haven't, you don't know if the engine is really getting fuel. Next thing is the engine itself. Is this your first 3.7L/4.7L engine to tear into, and set the timing? It is possible you don't have the timing set correctly, and I've seen it done numerous times on this engine platform.
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Unread 10-29-2013, 08:01 AM   #3
olliehopnoodle
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1982 FSJ Cherokee 
 
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Any codes or check engine light?
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Unread 10-29-2013, 02:28 PM   #4
jeeproocky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streetglideok View Post
How did you determine the engine has fuel? There are two steps to an engine getting fuel and both are important. First is fuel pressure, it needs to be in spec. Second is injector operation. Need to verify the injectors work, because if you haven't, you don't know if the engine is really getting fuel. Next thing is the engine itself. Is this your first 3.7L/4.7L engine to tear into, and set the timing? It is possible you don't have the timing set correctly, and I've seen it done numerous times on this engine platform.
I can heard the feul pump activated and got the feul out of the feul line shoot out by the valve next to the intake manifold. I will double check again with other steps that you mentioned. The engine is 3.7L, Timing is good and pressure test good between 145-180.
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Unread 10-29-2013, 02:33 PM   #5
jeeproocky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olliehopnoodle View Post
Any codes or check engine light?
Just did the test like you said unplug the sensor and I also unplug the throttllle found P0340 and P0123.
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Unread 10-29-2013, 06:51 PM   #6
streetglideok
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeeproocky View Post
Just did the test like you said unplug the sensor and I also unplug the throttllle found P0340 and P0123.
I replied to your PM btw. What sensor did you unplug exactly? You have a throttle sensor code-P0123, and a cam sensor code. Will need to know some details on what I asked in the PM, as well as what you have on here.
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Unread 10-29-2013, 08:08 PM   #7
olliehopnoodle
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He PM'd me and said it wasn't throwing codes. I suggested he disconnect the cam sensor and see if it does to confirm the computer was operating. Looks like it is.


When I had my engine rebuilt the startup was super smooth. Heck, much easier than the break in on the 351 C or AMC 401. With the 3.7 my wife just cranked it for a second, it fired up and, well, done!

Something is weird. You checked spark right? When you say you timed it correct what did you do to make sure it was correct?

It's a bummer you are having issues, that is very frustrating, hopefully we can help figure it out.
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Unread 10-29-2013, 08:11 PM   #8
jeeproocky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streetglideok View Post
I replied to your PM btw. What sensor did you unplug exactly? You have a throttle sensor code-P0123, and a cam sensor code. Will need to know some details on what I asked in the PM, as well as what you have on here.
Please help I am very open mind and willing to learn. I unplug the camshaft sensor and throttle sensor just to see the scan tool be able to pick up and give me the code. As far the timing I set it per repair manual the Mark on the pulley line up with DTC mark and the camshaft sprocket show the V-6 at 12 o'clock on the left and the right (I hope I did it right).I got 2 small kids so the project moving kinda slow.

Thank you to olliehopnoodle and streetglideok for helping me as you can see my nick is Jeeproocky :-) I am stuck now and very limited on $ that's why I have to try to do what I can with you guys supports I believe it will run soon.

Last edited by jeeproocky; 10-29-2013 at 08:20 PM.. Reason: add comments
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Unread 10-29-2013, 08:16 PM   #9
streetglideok
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Quote:
Something is weird. You checked spark right? When you say you timed it correct what did you do to make sure it was correct?
This

As much as it may frustrate the OP, this must be followed up and rechecked. You need to verify TDC on #1(make sure you know which is number 1) and then that the cam gears line up correctly. There is a mark on the crank pulley to indicate when the piston is up top, but you have to figure out if its on TDC on compression or not. You can have cranking compression, but that doesn't mean the timing is set right. If the sensor signals don't match, it wont start simply put.
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Unread 10-29-2013, 08:19 PM   #10
streetglideok
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With the right tool, it would take me a few minutes to say its right, or its not
This one, 4.7L but its the same, was done by a guy at home, set it up wrong, wouldn't start.
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Unread 10-29-2013, 08:51 PM   #11
jeeproocky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streetglideok View Post
With the right tool, it would take me a few minutes to say its right, or its not
This one, 4.7L but its the same, was done by a guy at home, set it up wrong, wouldn't start.
Ok, I will check again on the TDC. Can you tell me what is the best tool to check timing?
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Unread 10-29-2013, 09:02 PM   #12
tjkj2002
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On these newer engines that do not have external timing marks or are SOHC/DOHC is to use a 2 channel scope monitoring both cam and crank sensors like in the pic streetglideok posted.
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Unread 10-29-2013, 09:25 PM   #13
jeeproocky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkj2002 View Post
On these newer engines that do not have external timing marks or are SOHC/DOHC is to use a 2 channel scope monitoring both cam and crank sensors like in the pic streetglideok posted.
Where can I get that 2 chanels monitor tool?
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Unread 10-29-2013, 10:56 PM   #14
streetglideok
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About $2500 from Snapon gets you one. Otherwise a highly trained technician at a top rated shop will have one that can do tests. Problem is 90% of the auto techs do not know how to even turn the thing on. That screenshot I posted, is one I took of a dodge truck, same vintage with a 4.7L. Guy had a dead miss, replaced every electrical part on the engine, literally. Took it to the dealer, they billed him 3 hours and found it had a dead cylinder, loose valve seat(who'd thought?). Guy took it home, tore the engine down himself, had the head fixed or replaced, and re-assembled. Now it won't run right, when it will run. Throws a new PCM in it, which made the problem worse(anti-theft system really freaked out). Now he drags it to me. Checked the usual stuff, customer claims "oh yes its in time, I know it is". Luckily I didn't give that much thought, because guess what was wrong? Yep timing was out of whack. I used my scope, and was able to compare it to known good patterns. He paid my time and took it again. Some people never learn, ugh.

With that said, to the OP, show me how you know it is in time, as there are no real marks on this engine. Pull both the valve covers off, yes, both of them, put the engine to TDC compression on #1, verify the little notch in the timing cover aligns with the crank pulley. Then take pics of the cam gears and post them. Then we will know one way or the other.

You did put the NGK plugs in it that it calls for, at the OE gap, correct?

I just re-read your original post as well. What did the old engine do, that warranted replacement? Did it lock up, throw a rod, or did it not run right? What parts did you transfer over besides the tone rings?
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Unread 10-30-2013, 10:26 AM   #15
olliehopnoodle
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If he 180'd the crank how will you know by pictures? Won't it 'appear' to be correct? The only way he will know he is on the compression stroke is to turn the engine over and feel for it from the spark plug. If the cam is 180 degrees off it will appear to be the compression stroke on the exhaust stroke since the cam will have closed the valves. (Not challenging you, trying to understand)

I didn't take my own apart enough to 'see' the crank trigger but I believe it is in the back since this is where the sensor is. Is there someway to 'look' at the sensor while at TDC and 'see' if it is correct? Ther cam sensor had varying numbers of open square holes. Is the crank sensor similar?
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82 Cherokee WT - SOA/SF/agr box/Borgeson ujoint steering shaft/401/performer/holley TA/HEI/BeCool/727/np208/d44(aussie)/amc20(ARB)/BFG 35X12.5/Corbeau Moab Seats/RCI 6point Harness,Hella Aux lights/tuffy console/killer32 slider bars/custom bumpers and roll bar/Alpine head unit/amps/speakers 2002 Liberty Limited Early edition - Basically stock
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