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Unread 02-19-2011, 12:19 AM   #1
Rubes
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2003 KJ Transmission issue

Hi, new member and poster. My topic is related to my wife's KJ (3.7L, auto, 112k miles). I'm hoping for some guidance from you all.

I had a local mechanic replace the trans fluid, but since it had been over 40k miles since last change, he suggested to drop the pan and replace the filter instead of the full flush (not to "shock" the tranny with all new fluid). Driving it home was no problem; no slippage; everything seemed normal, until I slowed down before a red light from 4th gear. When the speed dropped to 30MPH, tranny thumped from 4th to 3rd. This was consistent behavior when the Jeep hit 30MPH while slowing down. Also the same behavior if I punched it while in 4th.

I took it in to the Jeep service department and they suggested reprogramming the tranny's "learning" mode. No more thumps, but now, the tranny feels funny. Seems like it switches prematurely from 1st to 2nd at 15MPH; shifts from 2nd to 3rd at 25MPH; but switches from 3rd to 4th at 40MPH. It also feels sluggish while "cruising" in 4th. One good thing to come out of all this is I'm getting nearly 2 more miles per gallon. Total miles driven since service: around 200.

Do you think the tranny will re-learn and re-adjust? Do I have a mechanical issue? Or should I have them reprogram it? I feel funny doing the latter because they told me to drive it for a while so the tranny would re-learn. But it's been 10 days since I picked it up...

Thanks in advance!

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Unread 02-19-2011, 09:48 PM   #2
richd
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Here is what I use to do to for a relearn on the tranny.In the city,run it through all the gears a few times,like taking off from a light or stop sign.Do this a few times.Then if you can,take it on the highway, slowly take it to max speed limit,slow down a little,and hit the passing gear a few times.See if that helps.If it stlll dosent feel right after a day or two,bring it back and have it programmed for the latest software program.
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Unread 02-20-2011, 12:14 AM   #3
Rubes
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Thanks, Rich...I'll give it a try. I've been running it lighter than normal. No punching...haven't gotten it higher than 55MPH (I have a 45 mile round trip daily, lots of stop and go, some stretches of 55mph)

Here's the analysis/diagnosis from the dealer:
- CVIs WHEN BROUGHT IN: LR 46, OD 126, UD 75, 2/4 58
- AFTER QUICKLEARN : LR 48, OD 135, UD 48, 2/4 49
- AFTER TEST DRIVE : LR 48, OD 129, UD 48, 2/4 52
(CANNOT GUARANTEE HOW LONG IT WILL LAST)

Does anyone know what these mean? Do any of these numbers indicate possible mechanical failure?
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Unread 02-20-2011, 07:36 PM   #4
richd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubes View Post
Thanks, Rich...I'll give it a try. I've been running it lighter than normal. No punching...haven't gotten it higher than 55MPH (I have a 45 mile round trip daily, lots of stop and go, some stretches of 55mph)

Here's the analysis/diagnosis from the dealer:
- CVIs WHEN BROUGHT IN: LR 46, OD 126, UD 75, 2/4 58
- AFTER QUICKLEARN : LR 48, OD 135, UD 48, 2/4 49
- AFTER TEST DRIVE : LR 48, OD 129, UD 48, 2/4 52
(CANNOT GUARANTEE HOW LONG IT WILL LAST)

Does anyone know what these mean? Do any of these numbers indicate possible mechanical failure?
This explains what CVI means:

CLUTCH VOLUME INDEX (CVI)

An important function of the TCM is to monitor Clutch Volume Index (CVI). CVIs represent the volume of fluid needed to compress a clutch pack.

The TCM monitors gear ratio changes by monitoring the Input and Output Speed Sensors. The Input, or Turbine Speed Sensor sends an electrical signal to the TCM that represents input shaft rpm. The Output Speed Sensor provides the TCM with output shaft speed information.

By comparing the two inputs, the TCM can determine transmission gear position. This is important to the CVI calculation because the TCM determines CVIs by monitoring how long it takes for a gear change to occur.

They can change the CVI by changing the software in the TCM.So if you still have problems with your shifting,then try what they say,and go from there.
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Unread 02-21-2011, 07:48 AM   #5
Rubes
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Thanks again, Richd...and thanks for the CVI 101

I punched it halfway at 55 twice during a stretch and it downshifted well...good speed increase. I'll see how it performs going home today...
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Unread 02-21-2011, 10:47 AM   #6
cmclean
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Your problem is making me think about mine. Had the filter and oil changed a couple of month ago, no flush though. At first I thought the shifing seemed slightly firmer and more positive. Now I notice that the 1-2 upshift is at 12mph and the 2-3 upshift is at 23mph all on a light thottle. I also notice that the downshifting seems a bit vague, not sure if it can make up it's mind whether to drop down or stay in the same gear. I tried disconnecting the battery cables and clamping them together for app 20 mins, but no appreciable difference in the shift points of feel. I'd like to give it some wellie to blow out the cobwebs, but the roads here are terrible, potholes that can rip out you balljoints and lunatics that have little comprehension about driving. Any futher info that anyone has would be usefull.
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Unread 02-21-2011, 01:40 PM   #7
Rubes
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"...downshifting seems a bit vague..." -- I feel that sometimes on mine as well

"...tried disconnecting the battery cables and clamping them together for app 20 mins..." -- what would you accomplish with this?
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Unread 02-21-2011, 02:46 PM   #8
Cards81fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubes View Post
"...tried disconnecting the battery cables and clamping them together for app 20 mins..." -- what would you accomplish with this?
I suspect this is an attempt to "zero" out or otherwise "unlearn" or erase anything stored in the computer, i.e. any learned engine or transmission behavior. Though I am no mechanic, and I am unsure if this would or would not be effective (i.e is there a battery backup? Would unhooking for simply 20 seconds suffice? etc?).
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Unread 02-21-2011, 07:41 PM   #9
Rubes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cards81fan View Post
I suspect this is an attempt to "zero" out or otherwise "unlearn" or erase anything stored in the computer, i.e. any learned engine or transmission behavior. Though I am no mechanic, and I am unsure if this would or would not be effective (i.e is there a battery backup? Would unhooking for simply 20 seconds suffice? etc?).
You're right...I just read this in another post:

"Just reset the pcm by disconnecting the battery and turning the key on for an hour or so and you should be fine. The trans is going to shift funny for a while until it relearns.
"
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Unread 02-21-2011, 08:45 PM   #10
richd
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This is normal when a tranny gets a fluid change,or a rebuild.Once you disconnect the Batt.,you have to do a relearn,or it will take a while before it shifts right.
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Unread 02-22-2011, 10:11 AM   #11
Rubes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richd View Post
This is normal when a tranny gets a fluid change,or a rebuild.Once you disconnect the Batt.,you have to do a relearn,or it will take a while before it shifts right.
Good suggestion. In my case, the dealer performed a "Quick Relearn". I assume they simply flashed the memory with their computer.
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Unread 02-22-2011, 12:57 PM   #12
richd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubes View Post
Good suggestion. In my case, the dealer performed a "Quick Relearn". I assume they simply flashed the memory with their computer.
Here are the CVI values for normal wear:
The range of “normal wear” for CVI values are:
• LR Clutch = 35 to 83
• 2-4 Clutch = 20 to 70
• UD Clutch = 24 to 70
• OD Clutch = 48 to 150
If you check yours,they are in normal range.
LR 48
OD 129
UD 48
2/4 52
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Unread 02-22-2011, 07:23 PM   #13
Rubes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richd View Post
Here are the CVI values for normal wear:
The range of “normal wear” for CVI values are:
• LR Clutch = 35 to 83
• 2-4 Clutch = 20 to 70
• UD Clutch = 24 to 70
• OD Clutch = 48 to 150
If you check yours,they are in normal range.
LR 48
OD 129
UD 48
2/4 52
Phew! That's a load off my mind! Thanks for the additional info...it would have been one of my next few questions.

I took your advice and ran the vehicle above "average". The tranny actually feels good. There are still a couple of issues: 1->2 switches so softly you can't feel it (tach dips around 100PRM during switch;not sure if real issue) and the OD sometimes feels sluggish (it runs around 1550 RPM at 50MPH, closer to 2000 RPM at 62 MPH). But, hey...I'm getting around 1 more MPG since the fluid change!

I'll make an appointment with the dealer to check it out. Hopefully they won't charge me another $95 to re-program...
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Unread 03-03-2011, 08:58 PM   #14
Rubes
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It's been a couple of weeks since I last posted and decided to give an update.

I replaced the t-case fluid and it doesn't seem as loud anymore.

A couple of days before taking it into the dealer to download new software, I noticed 1st gear slipping and a slight shudder when cold. (The Libby shudders in reverse as well going uphill, but that's occured for many years.) The symptons disappear once the tranny heats up. But today, I noticed the tranny slip when I made a semi-quick left turn into a strip mall.

Any ideas? Clutch pack worn down?

Thanks...
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Unread 03-05-2011, 07:32 PM   #15
Rubes
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I reflashed the PCM by disconnecting the battery today. Took it out for a ride, and I have to admit it feels a lot better! Let's see how it feels when I take it to work on Monday - 55-60 MPH stretches.
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