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Unread 11-13-2012, 07:40 PM   #1
05liberator
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2005 KJ Liberty 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: midland, mi
Posts: 10
05 Liberty No Crank, everything clicks

I have a new battery, starter was checked and is is good shape. I have a new ignition switch and actuator.

Heres the scoop, drove to store shut off went in came out would not start. Made a few attempts nothing happened. Had it towed home.

I checked engine wasnt locked up, tested battery, it load tests fine. So I checked for power down to starter, nothing. Even not having voltage I decided why not replace starter as it was a gripe to remove as is. With winter coming on, I might as well replace now ( I have 198k on it and had a factory starter still)

I installed new starter, and what fun it was totake out let alone install. I jumpered starter again, with key on, motor cranked with jumper, not with key. At this point I tore my key out looked at actuator, it was missing the back section of the cheap pot metal so I icked up a new actuator and ignition switch.
After reassembly I still have no start sitituation.

Any ideas?
All fuses tested good, all relays were swapped around with known working relays.

I dont mind tossing a few bucks for preventative maintenance I hate sitting on the road broke down more. At this time I am starting to think the skim or key keys are acting up?

I have it sitting in my barn with a battery charger to keep battery from draining while with key is on now for about last 20 minutes. If the skim does reset how long does it usually take?
I read key on key off, as I dont have a owners manual what is procedre to get key recognize? I am using my spare as I suspect my usual key went bad.

I hate stealerships, especially in this area of the state. If this was covered in any other posts I apologize, I looked through a few posts but all seemed to be fixed or sent to dealer.

Thanks in advance for any help or thoughts.

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Unread 11-14-2012, 06:12 AM   #2
Billwill
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2002 KJ Liberty 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South Africa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 05liberator View Post
I have a new battery, starter was checked and is is good shape. I have a new ignition switch and actuator.

Heres the scoop, drove to store shut off went in came out would not start. Made a few attempts nothing happened. Had it towed home.

I checked engine wasnt locked up, tested battery, it load tests fine. So I checked for power down to starter, nothing. Even not having voltage I decided why not replace starter as it was a gripe to remove as is. With winter coming on, I might as well replace now ( I have 198k on it and had a factory starter still)

I installed new starter, and what fun it was totake out let alone install. I jumpered starter again, with key on, motor cranked with jumper, not with key. At this point I tore my key out looked at actuator, it was missing the back section of the cheap pot metal so I icked up a new actuator and ignition switch.
After reassembly I still have no start sitituation.

Any ideas?
All fuses tested good, all relays were swapped around with known working relays.

I dont mind tossing a few bucks for preventative maintenance I hate sitting on the road broke down more. At this time I am starting to think the skim or key keys are acting up?

I have it sitting in my barn with a battery charger to keep battery from draining while with key is on now for about last 20 minutes. If the skim does reset how long does it usually take?
I read key on key off, as I dont have a owners manual what is procedre to get key recognize? I am using my spare as I suspect my usual key went bad.

I hate stealerships, especially in this area of the state. If this was covered in any other posts I apologize, I looked through a few posts but all seemed to be fixed or sent to dealer.

Thanks in advance for any help or thoughts.
There is no re-learn procedure for the SKIM system....if there was I could use my key and get your PCM to recognise my key and I could drive off with your Jeep.

The SKIS light should light briefly when you turn the ignition ON and then go out.
If it flashes then you can start the Jeep but it dies after three seconds.
If the light stays ON then you cannot start the Jeep.

Are you sure you fitted your new ignition actuator correctly?
If yo pull the ignition switch off of the actuator, have the key in the ignition cylinder, you should be able to start the engine by turning the ignition switch with a small flat screw driver.

Have you jumpered out pins 30 and 87 of the starter relay?
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Unread 11-14-2012, 12:52 PM   #3
05liberator
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: midland, mi
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Tried jumpering the pins. Nothing, When jeep is jumpered at solenoid motor spins and no spark at the plugs.

I have 2 keys to this jeep. 1 I never used except to unlock it when my kid locked the keys in it, and to yard move it when my kid decided to forget to leave with friends and forgot to leave me the key. 1 is on a key chain other isnt so if key 1 is primary key 2 spare. Make it easier to explain situation.


Last night I left the thing sit with key on battery charger on trickle, nothing. I put the shroud on the steering column, on a whim, I tried to start it.
It started and ran for 30 minutes, solid. During which time I was shutting it off and restarting check everything is working. I am positive it would have ran more but ..........
I went for the house get a coke, thinking boy this is fixed. Upon return its not running. Helper had pulled my spare key and put the primary key (one that I suspect is my culprit) in ignition, which it ran a few minutes and died as if out of gas.
At this point I replaced keys and it starts. All good. Starts and is running fine. I open the garage door, get it outside its running like a top. I shut door, and am walking to the jeep when I hear it shut off. Again helper has replaced primary with secondary and no start.

At this point I sent helper home as the help recieved is more a hinderance to my blood pressure.

Yeah the ignition switch is in correct and so is the actuator. It works and feels way better then the broken junk I pulled out of it.

I tried the screwdriver before I assembled the switch to the actuator and had same no start issue. I pulled it and tried after a few other attempts as well. Nothing.

I have used working relays for my wipers for the starter relay and as well on a whim used my cooling fan relay for the asd, so far nothing is working.

I pretty much think the skim has decided to die at worst possible time for me.

I was sure I read in the forums here about leaving key on for 1.5 hrs to reset something with the skim.

After the jeep failed to start and no helper to hinder I left key on over night again on trickle charge, though this time it fails to start and still no power to coil.
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Unread 11-15-2012, 12:42 PM   #4
05liberator
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Join Date: Nov 2012
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Ok update I had the Jeep towed to dealer. They "started it" pulled it in shop and found nothing wrong with skim or anything else. This Jeep is definitely starting to tick me off. Best part was they did not charge anything as they found nothing wrong, and got the 2 recalls it had fixed as well.

Guess it was my Jeeps way of saying it wanted warranty work done? Who knows, odd it would not act up a single time, with either key for them.
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Unread 11-15-2012, 12:45 PM   #5
tjkj2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 05liberator View Post
Guess it was my Jeeps way of saying it wanted warranty work done? Who knows, odd it would not act up a single time, with either key for them.
Murphy's law in action.It almost always happens that way.
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Unread 11-16-2012, 01:21 AM   #6
05liberator
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Location: midland, mi
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Wow, had jeep home now 4 hrs guess what? Yep back to no start and no power to coil. I am so impressed with this vehicle. I will be out of towing real soon at this rate. 3 times its needed to be hauled 1 to the house when I initially said yep starter needs replaced, now 2 to the dealer. My insurance sure is going to love me if it dont act up this time for sure. Well I get 6 tows free a year, hopefully Dec I dont need any tows as my policy wont renew till March.
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Unread 11-16-2012, 07:22 AM   #7
Billwill
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Location: South Africa
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Are you sure that your interlock switch on the auto box is working OK?....Assuming it is an auto.

There have been lots of problems with this interlock...sometimes waggling the lever around allows you to start.

Does the engine crank but not start or does it not crank at all?
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Unread 11-16-2012, 07:24 AM   #8
Billwill
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Double post
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Unread 11-19-2012, 02:48 PM   #9
05liberator
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Its same as before, no crank with key, no power to coils with key on. Sitting at dealer as we speak a 3rd return.
All for free so for:

1 tow to my house where I changed the ignition switch and actuator. Diagnosed what could and sent it to the dealer.
3 tows to dealer. They paid for tow this time, as they know see my problem. My insurance the other 2.
1 set of new ball joints though completely not related.
1 diagnosis that supplied no issues to the skim as no codes were found.
1 diagnose of ignition system again no charge as it was working.
2 questions from dealer if I know how to start this thing properly. O.k sure It may have appeared that way till now.

Keep in mind it was towed to dealer over same issues, which on first and second tow it sat overnight and started right up no issues found as to why it done as it had.
I had to have it towed back over same issue 4 hrs afterward first issue. Got the thing back and was able to drive it a bit over the weekend. Then returned to not wanting to crank.

Priceless is the fact I had to have it yet again towed there this morning they are now having my issue. No crank no power to coils, everything else is working as should.
Currently waiting to see what they come up with.

Symptoms, again, no crank no power to coils with key on.
I can jumper solenoid starter but it will not fire and run as stated no juice to coils. Acts as if ignition switch is shot but 3 others and still same trouble? Not likely.

At this point they think wiring harness is shorted somewhere as everything else shows no reason to not to start let alone run when jumpered at solenoid, let alone with key.
At this moment I think I have the largest radio with lights I ever owned.

Sorry for such a late and long reply. Will update when I know something. Which with this vehicle who knows.
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Unread 11-20-2012, 04:40 AM   #10
Billwill
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Jumpering the starter relay pins 87 and 30 should crank the motor but it will not run like this....this is only to test the starter motor/battery.

You need to check if if the ASD relay (Auto Shut Down) is energizing......probably not as the PCM does this energizing and will only do so if it is happy with certain things such as: SKIS code OK, transmission in Park, crankshaft sensor OK, camshaft sensor OK etc.
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Unread 11-29-2012, 09:55 PM   #11
05liberator
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Location: midland, mi
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Jumpering it provided nothing. Remember, when this happens there is no crank no spark, everything else works as it should.

Its been now 3 tows to dealer. Each time they say fixed anda couple days back to same the same scenario.

Talked to tech today he was completely baffled at this moment. No codes are popping up on comp or modules. So the lot boy is going to be busy turning a key till problem replicates it appears.

At one point they were thinking crankshaft sensor or cam, I quickly ruled them out for them as I got no spark and no crank. The sensor would not lock out crank if it failed.

So will be interesting what they find. I know this damn vehicle is ticking me off badly at this point.

Best part is, 3 tows, and it starts next morning each time no problem. Go figure. Of all the places it got stuck going to feeney chrysler is not my first pic either. But is only dealer near me.

I am not getting a solid anti theft light, nor any blinking from it either when it acts up, It acts same as if its going to start, so .................................................. ..............................................
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Unread 11-30-2012, 02:45 AM   #12
05liberator
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2005 KJ Liberty 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: midland, mi
Posts: 10
FWIW Asd was first thought, 2 new relays and fresh relays throughout system for rest, nope.

I have no issue buying relays ans fuses. I have issues When everything else ohm tests or volt test fine, and fingers point to where I been.
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Unread 12-01-2012, 04:53 AM   #13
Billwill
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Location: South Africa
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Here is the circuit diagram for the 2006 KJ...should be similar to your 2005 model.

Jumpering pin 30 and pin 87 on the starter relay should turn the engine over although it will not fire.
This is assuming fuse 8 40A is not blown and assuming the starter motor/solenoid is grounded properly to the chassis as shown....make sure the strap grounding the engine to chassis is clean and tight!

If this does not happen then the solenoid or the starter is faulty.

If you short out, at the solenoid, the thick red wire and the thinner Yellow/Gray wire you then bypass the starter relay and the fuse completely ie. you are now going directly to positive on the battery so the engine should definitely turn over....if not then bad solenoid/starter grounding again.
img.jpg  
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Unread 12-03-2012, 03:15 AM   #14
05liberator
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Location: midland, mi
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Bill no offense when I say this. Read the previous posts. It has been numbered. It still would not crank. With a juper o. The solenoid the starter operates. It happens at odd intervals. The starter has been checked and its fine. The problem has Chrysler stumped at this moment. Its not a ting up at all for them since it went back to them. Best part is last we spoke there is no charge for diagnose when lot boy finally gets it to trip and act as it has been.

Thanks for the schematic, but for a lack of better way say this..... Been then done that check already.

Now as said they were thinking skim, comp or aforementioned sensors. Which i ruled out as said cam crankshaft sensor. Either of the 2 would fail and ignition not work. They would not fail and stop the starter from cranking.

Im in midst of possibly trading the thing off and getting a newer model at this point. Possibly even anything by a liberty tbh.

Will post what they come up with for the jeep when they discover its issue. At this moment their tech says I done everything he would have. Even the tech is spinning his wheels trying to figure this one out. As he tested everything i have already done as well.

With no code tossed and such a intermittent problem... It may be awhile till it acts up for him as well.

Hope lot boy do t break the actuator in frustration. Lol.
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Unread 12-03-2012, 07:16 PM   #15
05liberator
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: midland, mi
Posts: 10
By the way please excuse tyos on a galaxy note and thing loves changing words constantly.
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