[probesport]

^^^ I'll have to add that to my arsenal, looks useful in the right pinch.

[VTZJ]

Originally Posted by Wup This

...There was a 1" by 10" piece of wood in the knot to keep it from locking up so tight that it wouldn't be able to be untied...

It's a good idea, if it doesn't kill you, as you point out. Lately I have been using a short length of three quarter inch schedule 40 PVC pipe for this purpose. It's light weight, cheap, resists crushing, and is easily pulled out of a square knot type hitch between a rope and a strap etc. when used as shown in this video (this link was posted recently by alteredxj on the vtjeep.org forum) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JBnxSqpuCM

Guy in video uses grass cut from the marsh edge for the same purpose, but you get the idea.

[smokeybear]

A hi-lift with some chain and winch extension line can be a great start. The problem with a winch, as great as they are, is that they pull you deeper into whatever you're stuck in. That might be fine, but using the hi-lift as a winch can drag you back to the last place you were unstuck. If you are low budget and willing to work, a hi-lift, chain, winch extension line, tree strap, some D-shackles, snatch strap, and shovel will usually get you out of anything a relatively stock rig will get stuck in/on/between.

[default_user]

Warn winch accessory kit, 20' recovery strap, Max Ax, Hi-Lift

[dzdiver]

Dang, I "Love it" when people say that: Guns, chains, and Hi-Lifts are dangerous. They are only dangerous when you don't have enough knowledge to use them safely or lose respect for them.

My Recovery Kit includes:

Hi-lift Jack
Hi-Lift accessory kits including Jack mate, off-road accessory kit, winching kit, and others.
Two heavy duty rated chains.
Transport Clusters (for those vehicles without proper recovery points)
Recovery Strap 2" by 30'.
Several D shackles.
Max Axe
Tree Saver
Gloves
Line Dampers (home made)
Recovery points front and rear on my vehicle.
and KNOWLEDGE about safe recovery.

I plan to install a winch in the near future. But even with the winch, I will continue to carry the above, plus some extras like a winch line extension and pulley.

I believe that perfect practice makes perfect. I actually practice doing recoveries, so that when the need arises, I can actually perform a safe recovery. So far, I have recovered other people's vehicles, but never had to recover my own. Maybe I am not pushing the envelope enough. Maybe I am staying within my wife's comfort zone. But someday, when I need to recover my vehicle, I plan to be ready.

Using my Hi-Lift as a winch is a pain. I would prefer to use a winch. But there have now been 3 times that I am the one that was in position and ready to recover, and I only had the Hi-Lift. Guess what. It worked. It was hard work, but it worked. No one got hurt. No further property damage occurred. Glamorous? No. Fun? No. Safe? Yes. Useful? Yes. But then again, I have sought out training on how to recover a vehicle and not get hurt.

Your brain is the most important part of a recovery kit. Feed it. Without knowledge, your toys are useless, and perhaps unsafe.

[Rush1184]

Originally Posted by VTZJ

X2 on the hooks, but this is the second or third time I have come across the "chains are dangerous" idea on this forum. Can somebody explain to me what this is about?

I have been wheeling and working with chains most of my life, and consider them a practically indispensible part of winter travel or off road gear. Here are some things I always thought were "facts" about chain:

Chains are cheap. Chains last a lifetime in casual use. Chains resist abrasion and cutting much better than straps. With a grab hook on one end, and a slip hook on the other, chains are very versatile and easy to adjust to length. Chains tolerate abuse pretty well, and require almost no maintenance (just hang to dry). Chains tolerate sharp bends and corners better than cable. And chains are very strong. Grade 70 transport chain, pretty common, has a SWL of 6,600 lbs, and a mean breaking strength perhaps 3 or 4x that.

Okay, chains are kind of heavy. And muddy chains are a hassle. But but dangerous? Can somebody explain this?

(1) I know you don't "snatch" with chain.
(2) I know the typical 3/8 chain from MegaloMart is probably NOT grade 70, and the hooks aren't, either.

Last week I was wheeling with a friend who was trying to pull something with a chain, the point the chain was attached to on the thing he was pulling broke, and BANG, chain shot forward, luckily, and I mean luckily, shot over the bed aand roof of the cab, bounced back when it reached the end of its chain and went back through the windshield into the passanger seat. I say he was lucky cause it could have easily been over a foot and killed him, and his spotter was outside and away from the arc of the chain.. A strap would not be quite as lethal as the stretching absorbs some of the energy and the benifit of a lack of metal is obvious in that situation as well.

On a side not, the chain was still in perfect condition. His windshield, shattered. After seeing that first hand I insist on using my strap instead of a chain whenever I am wheeling.

[VTZJ]

Originally Posted by Rush1184

...the point the chain was attached to on the thing he was pulling broke, and BANG, chain shot forward...

Though that's an attachment failure, not a chain failure, I see your point: a strap might have done less damage and posed less risk under the same circumstances.

Still, your experience is unusual and I would like to understand this, so please provide more details if you can. I say unusual because in my experience chains are pretty "dead" when they fail, falling directly or almost directly to earth. They don't stretch much, which is what makes them so harsh in a snatch type recovery. This same quality also means they don't have much snap when they break, unlike cable, rope or nylon strap.

But if you have a chain and a strap in a system, the stretch of the strap can fling the chain if something fails.

Was there something stretchy in this system somewhere, like strap, rope or cable, providing the elasticity? Or was it Jeep-to-chain-to-load directly? Can you tell me what was being pulled? Was the chain slack taken up gently or harshly? ANy info will help because I use chains a lot and want to understand them as well as I can.

[Happy Joe]

What I do not/will not carry; a highlift jack, a long length of chain (the uninitiated can kill themselves or someone else with either, if I don't bring them no one will borrow them). I have seen too many near fatalities and too much vehicle damage from their misuse. (People with tow chains will cone to its end then spin their tires. Inevitably the tow vehicle will back up a couple of feet and take a running jerk; the broken end of the chain sometimes whips around and breaks windows, bends sheemetal and could kill anyone in its path. Often/usually the chain just drops to the ground but I have also seen the whiplike behavior. I have, also seen the same act like a whip behavior with tow cables/wire rope and winch cable). Silly people; chains and cables are not snatch straps, don't treat them alike.

My onboard recovery stuff;
Tow points front and back (4 total)
Several large shackles (3 or 4)
a snatch strap
a tree strap
A short length of heavy chain (for vehicles with no tow points)
A snatch block
A GI entrenching tool (when snow wheeling a full sized shovel)
A GI mini pick mattock
A Svensaw
An 8,000 pound winch
A floor mat (to put over the winch line).
A 3-4 ton hydralic bottle jack that will work on its side
A 6" length of 4x4 (Jack extender/tire wedge)

Enjoy!

[ryan-5.2zj]

i keep a 50" hi lift, three straps, a 20' and two 10' straps and a Colman shovel. it isn't the best shovel but it gets the job done. i will admit that my high lift is rarely used when i get stuck but the numerous other uses make it worth keeping in the back. it really came in handy doing this

[Faramir66103]

This has been pointed out in previous threads about recovery and chain but I'll post it here as well. Even though chain doesn't stretch, the recovery vehicle's suspension can compress and the stuck vehicle's can stretch. If the chain breaks, these components will relax and put that energy into the chain. Of course this is the case with straps, winch line (synthetic or steel), chain and any other method of connecting two vehicles one could think up. I'd guess that when we see video or hear a tale of synthetic line or chain flying around after a failure, this is why they don't drop to the ground as advertised.

FWIW,
Adam

[FortCollinsZJ]

I have seen a few straps break, I always put a blanket over the strap, or thread the stap through the arms of a coat, it makes it ALOT heavier and if it does break it will fall to the ground faster. It really works.

[VTZJ]

Originally Posted by ryan-5.2zj

...it really came in handy doing this

Hahahahaha See? Hi lifts are dangerous! YOU COULD EXPLODE YOUR XJ!

[BYuen]

Warn winch, straps, D-rings, Tree Saver, and Hi-lift are what is a part of my arsenal. I will invest in winch line extensions and chains a little later on. As far as my Hi-Lift goes, imo with my setup it would make it much easier to change a tire with. The time my Hi-Lift paid for itself was when I pinned my Jeep on a ledge. I didn't have a winch then and could not back down or drive up. I used the Hi-Lift to winch the rear end of the Jeep around so I could back down and pick a better line. For me, the Hi-Lift has saved my butt several times before I could get a winch. I dunno it was a good 60 bucks spent.

As far as recovery points go for a vehicle that does not have them... Wrapping something around the frame will work. If not, using the axle works as well. I drove a WJ before my current TJ. During icy weather one night, I got high-centered on the median of a local road. I had no recovery points. A buddy of mine drove out in his 4Runner and we wrapped a strap around the rear axle. It worked marvelously.



Imho in this situation I would have much rather have had the Hi-Lift. (Of course it was the day I forgot to bring it) The bottle jack was fully extended and was rather unstable on the only nearby flat spot we could find on the trail. I had to dig a little as well to get enough clearance to fit the spare on. I guess if I had a block of wood or two to put under the bottle jack it would have worked much better.


Versus

[Happy Joe]

The high lift (off road, and even on on concrete) is every bit as unstable (often more so) than that stock jack. Take a piece of plate or a chunk of 2x12 along to give either jack a more stable base. If you have to work underneath with the tire off shove the wheel/tire under the axle, frame or cross member (it will fit on its side) so that if every thing decides to go side ways the vehicle will come to rest on the wheel instead of something soft and squishy.
When camping in a group on wheeling trips one or more of us will bring a floor jack for a safe way to lift vehicles in base camp.

Enjoy!

[Rigor]

First tip to avoid being stuck... don't follow these two!! Let me start with this though... they were obviously off the trail , one of the passengers was even in law enforcement and didn't seem to bothered by it. Needless to say I think one of them paid a pretty hefty fine in the end for their "fun". I don't think they mention "tread lightly" in the operators manual that comes with 'em. Don't be that guy!

http://home.comcast.net/~morris19703/images/I'm%20with%20stupid.JPG

I honestly don't know if they got the one on the far side out that day. It's amazing what stupid people you run across on trails. All the recovery gear he could carry couldn't get him out, neither could his three buddies! Someone mentioned a helicopter ride?...

Didn't want to paste in the picture, I think it might be a bit large and I couldn't shrink it. So clink the link and enjoy...