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Go Back JeepForum.com > General Technical Discussions > General Jeep & Off-Road Equipment > What? Why do I need a locker? I thought I had 4X4!

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Unread 09-06-2011, 08:59 PM   #91
vondy98
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very nice. great info

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Unread 05-23-2012, 11:17 AM   #92
nibstools
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Of course you could install a spool, then you would not need a locker!
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Unread 05-23-2012, 06:51 PM   #93
McDowra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nibstools View Post
Of course you could install a spool, then you would not need a locker!
That sounds good till you try to turn with a front spool
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Unread 05-23-2012, 07:56 PM   #94
nibstools
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McDowra View Post
That sounds good till you try to turn with a front spool
Yeah I got a locker up front and a spool in the rear.
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Unread 07-31-2012, 01:21 PM   #95
vacman
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i am re-gearing the front to 4;10s to match an 8.8so have to set up anyway, i may have a chance to buy a lightly used detroit for my d30 high pinion front diff for the same as a new lockright. Am I correct that there is really no functional difference between the 2? I know the detroit is physically stronger/ is the carrier.

I am installing a dana 20 twin stick as well as an 8.8 rear, i have a lunchbox for the 8.8 and i know the carrier is the week point, my plan is to go detroit when i the dust settles from all the other stuff (long arms, driveshaft, artec truss, front re-gear). My question for this is how will the on road manners be if i run in front wheel drive in the snow with the locker up front? I live in BC Canada so we get snow , my wife drives it periodically. how would thew rear be if I go spool, and drive in front wheel drive on the pavement?
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Unread 08-11-2012, 12:49 AM   #96
tmichael921
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Great post, does a great job simplifying the info. Definitely helped me really understand the concept.
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Unread 08-16-2012, 08:18 PM   #97
BlueRubiconrich
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I would say hash with a spool. no give, your tires will wear fast.
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Unread 08-23-2012, 09:59 AM   #98
Jerry Bransford
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vacman View Post
i am re-gearing the front to 4;10s to match an 8.8so have to set up anyway, i may have a chance to buy a lightly used detroit for my d30 high pinion front diff for the same as a new lockright.... My question for this is how will the on road manners be if i run in front wheel drive in the snow with the locker up front? I live in BC Canada so we get snow , my wife drives it periodically. how would thew rear be if I go spool, and drive in front wheel drive on the pavement?
Road manners-wise, the Detroit will be about the same in the front as the Lockright but the Lockright will click (ratchet) a bit in 2wd on the street. The Detroit locker is a more complex installation so it will cost more to install since the backlash between the ring & pinion gears will have to be set up.

BUT... while the Detroit Locker is a SUPERB locker and I love them and had one in my previous TJ, the Detroit Locker doesn't do well when installed into a Dana 30 whether it's a HP or LP. A Dana 30 axle flexes enough that it causes problems for a Detroit Locker.

Running in front wheel drive (or 4x4) with a front-mounted automatic locker on a snow covered road is not something I'd do. When on a slick road surface, the locker will inhibit the left and right tires from turning at the different speeds they need to in a turn which will cause severe understeer... i.e. the Jeep will want to push straight ahead instead of turning if the road is slick. Automatic lockers are not good on snow or ice covered surfaces. The only snow conditions they are ok in is in DEEP offroad snow. Automatic lockers work well on non-slick road surfaces because there is enough traction to help the locker unlock for turns.
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Unread 08-24-2012, 12:01 PM   #99
paul246
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[QUOTE=Running in front wheel drive (or 4x4) with a front-mounted automatic locker on a snow covered road is not something I'd do. When on a slick road surface, the locker will inhibit the left and right tires from turning at the different speeds they need to in a turn which will cause severe understeer... i.e. the Jeep will want to push straight ahead instead of turning if the road is slick. Automatic lockers are not good on snow or ice covered surfaces. The only snow conditions they are ok in is in DEEP offroad snow. Automatic lockers work well on non-slick road surfaces because there is enough traction to help the locker unlock for turns. [/QUOTE]

I beg to differ, I've been running an Aussie locker up front for two full winters, mostly on packed snow and ice. Our roads here are never plowed so we end up driving over ice and ruts most of the winter. My auto locker works superbly on all surfaces, ruts and all.

The fellow that installed my Aussie claimed the same results as you.... said "you'll be bouncing off parked cars". He took it for a test ride over icy ruts and admitted he was totally wrong.
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Unread 08-24-2012, 03:05 PM   #100
Jerry Bransford
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul246 View Post
I beg to differ, I've been running an Aussie locker up front for two full winters, mostly on packed snow and ice. Our roads here are never plowed so we end up driving over ice and ruts most of the winter. My auto locker works superbly on all surfaces, ruts and all.

The fellow that installed my Aussie claimed the same results as you.... said "you'll be bouncing off parked cars". He took it for a test ride over icy ruts and admitted he was totally wrong.
That's great you are the exception to the issue of a front-mounted automatic locker being able to cause steering problems on icy roads. So according to you, the locker industry is also completely wrong on that point. Can you positively state what you have experienced with your Aussie is true for all automatic lockers and all icy road conditions? No, I didn't think so.

You should note that Aussie disagrees with your advice that auto lockers are fine on icy roads. Check out the Aussie FAQ on their website at http://www.aussielocker.com/index.php/frequently-asked-questions/ where Aussie says the following:

"We 'Do Not' recommend the installation of a locker in the front of a vehicle that will be driven on icy highways in 4WD without manual hubs. Driving on any slick surface requires additional attention to handling so test your Aussie Locker equipped vehicle in open areas under adverse weather conditions before driving on roads."

In other words, automatic front lockers are not safe for use on icy roads in all conditions when the vehicle is in 4x4, even according to Aussie made your locker.
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Unread 08-25-2012, 01:29 PM   #101
paul246
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Yes, well I guess I'm the exception.

Seriously, I wouldn't contradict you if I didn't actually experience this for myself.

Also, I know I'm not the only one with this experience, I read other posts on other forums where other drivers had tried it before I ordered my Aussie.

Trust me, it works just fine. You are welcome to come up to Moose Jaw and try it for yourself if you would like. I can almost guarantee our lousy roads will be ice packed as per normal this winter.

in addendum....

As I mentioned before, the mechanic, an experienced off-roader, expressed doubt about the wisdom of installing the Aussie up front. He was a convert as soon as he got it installed and took it out, first on the snow covered parking lot and then on the ice packed roads for himself, he couldn't believe how well it handled the ice.

My plan was to take it easy at first, only selecting 4wd when required to get moving and then disengaging. Gradually, I tried it on more challenging surfaces with off camber slopes, weaving through obstacles, and across intermittent ice coverd/bare pavement sections.

Another good test was a 6 kilometer drive into work over highway that was thickly coated in freezing rain. I switched back and forth between 2wd and 4wd to test how stable or unstable the Jeep was in these condition. The highway also had a pronounced crown. In 2wd the TJ wanted to fishtail with the slightest application of power, but with 4wd selected the Jeep maintained a smooth and steady track forward even while applying additional power. No problem with steering, no lurching, no nothing. In fact, the only thing I've ever noticed while the Aussie is engaged is a slightly heavier feel about center.

Two full winters later without hint of any difficulty I'm convinced the front is THE best way to go if you want to take full advantage of the weight up front for traction.

I just sent a question off to Aussie Locker to see if they would expound on why they don't recommend a front installation for icy conditions.

.... just received a reply from Aussie Locker, Australia.

" Thank you for sharing your personal driving experiences on ice and snow with us. Every drivers skill set, road environment and vehicle set up are different and we always appreciate hearing from our customers on their specific experiences. We believe that is prudent to provide as much information as possible to our customers on potential issues they may experience with virtually any locker installation and many of those are from experience of the Aussie team, or based on recommendations of professionals including engineers and attorneys."

A nice neutral reply, and as I suspected, it probably has a lot to with reducing exposure to litigation than to reality.

I should add, I run proper winter tires ( Michelin X-Ice ) during the winter. This factor most likely contributes the most to my successful utilization of the Aussie Locker on ice covered roads. Ice tires actually do grip on ice (amazing, eh!) which would explain why the auto-locker can still function on pure ice. My BF Goodrich KO's are not worth a damn on ice.

So, with the correct rubber for ice conditions, an auto-locker up front works. That is from actual experience, not from reading pamphlets.

Last edited by paul246; 10-23-2012 at 06:55 PM..
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Unread 08-28-2012, 06:16 PM   #102
Jeeper69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
Road manners-wise, the Detroit will be about the same in the front as the Lockright but the Lockright will click (ratchet) a bit in 2wd on the street. The Detroit locker is a more complex installation so it will cost more to install since the backlash between the ring & pinion gears will have to be set up.

BUT... while the Detroit Locker is a SUPERB locker and I love them and had one in my previous TJ, the Detroit Locker doesn't do well when installed into a Dana 30 whether it's a HP or LP. A Dana 30 axle flexes enough that it causes problems for a Detroit Locker.

Running in front wheel drive (or 4x4) with a front-mounted automatic locker on a snow covered road is not something I'd do. When on a slick road surface, the locker will inhibit the left and right tires from turning at the different speeds they need to in a turn which will cause severe understeer... i.e. the Jeep will want to push straight ahead instead of turning if the road is slick. Automatic lockers are not good on snow or ice covered surfaces. The only snow conditions they are ok in is in DEEP offroad snow. Automatic lockers work well on non-slick road surfaces because there is enough traction to help the locker unlock for turns.
How would a Jeep with an ARB in back and a truetrac upfront compare to a Jeep with ARBs front and back?
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Unread 08-31-2012, 08:51 AM   #103
jeepster93
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ARB's are completely invisible when not engaged. They would drive just like a stock, open Jeep would.
Unlike a Detroit or lunchbox or other "automatic" locker, an ARB locker is a full spool when engaged. There is NO slip, no ratchet in an engaged ARB locker.
You go from open to spool at the flip of a switch with ARB lockers.
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Unread 10-09-2012, 08:18 PM   #104
JeepLawyer
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just added lockers

just added detroit lockers in the rear and eaton electric lockers at the time we addd 4.10 gears last week-- love the change and feel like i have greatly improved the jeep

robert
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Unread 11-04-2012, 06:11 PM   #105
TCSTOY
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You need lockers to get threw this haha


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