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Unread 10-13-2010, 06:34 PM   #1
heepinforChrist
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what to do about recovery gear

i am stuck on what i should buy for recovery, i am way low on cash but have a come along and a cheap tow strap but need something longer. i would love to buy a winch or save for one but not right now so please dont tell me to save up for one. just wondering what size/style strap/chain is the best friend for a come along? thanks folks!

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Unread 10-13-2010, 10:02 PM   #2
RogueSpear2023
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Don't use a Chain that's for towing, and pulling trees, they can snap when put under stress and cause serious injury or death. Also don't use straps with hooks for the same reason.

What you want to find is a quality snatch strap with loops, and buy some quality shackles, and a friend.

Come alongs and hi lift jacks take forever to get out with but will work in a pinch, I would save up for a new or used Warn M8000.
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Unread 10-14-2010, 07:58 AM   #3
Happy Joe
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MY opinion, at a minimum get;
1. Tow points front and rear (4 total), hooks are very cheap.
2. A quality 20,000 lb (minimum) snatch strap; not a tow strap, not a lifting strap, not a tow rope, not a chain, not a ratchet strap, not a come a long.
3. At least one high quality 10,000 pound rating or higher shackle (2 are better).
4. Some one that has a vehicle that is properly equipped to buddy up on trips.
5. (Much as I hate them, and consider them mostly useless) a Hi-lift brand jack can help, if you are both cheap and desperate (No, harbor freight imitations are not "just as good"). Get a quality, heavy duty chain with grab hooks to make it more versatile. Note; you must resist trying to use the chain to snatch a vehicle from a stuck, it will probably, either break, sometimes with shrapnel flying or tear pieces off of one or both vehicles. The only use the chain should see is; on road towing (with experienced personnel, only), rigging the jack or a snatch block etc, dragging logs back to camp for firewood.
6. In snow, mud, sand a quality, small shovel, not a Chinese/Korean made imitation entrenching tool. The GI entrenching tools are OK but the imitations are junk.
7. (Rarely used) a usable sized bow saw, or Svensaw, not a fold up garden saw, get a tool that is useful, for brush/tree cutting.

You can bring a come a long along if you like but you shouldn't depend on them (especially the cheap ones).

A quality winch with accessories trumps all of the above except the tow points, snatch strap and shackles.

Don't cheap out on recovery tools, you will regret it.

Enjoy!
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Unread 10-14-2010, 08:22 AM   #4
ZeroGravity
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Save up and purchase a high quality recovery strap from a reputable manufacturer. I know Home-Depot sells loop-end straps marked "recovery" but I wouldn't trust what they are selling to be accurately advertised.

You're looking at maybe $50-$60 for a good strap. This strap is used for when you're extracted using another vehicle.

You can also use natural ropes for recovery. Since they don't store energy like Nylon will there is little chance of it snapping back and hitting you. Rope is much cheaper but you can't get it wet and it deteriorates faster.


If you're going to be hand winching your Jeep you will want to use two static lines, not recovery straps. Static straps are used for this application because recovery straps are going to stretch, making it more work to extract the vehicle.


Quote:
5. (Much as I hate them, and consider them mostly useless) a Hi-lift jack can help
You know as a web wheeler I had always considered them a waste of storage room but since going wheeling a bunch I've realized that they are quite useful.

A Hi-Lift is the only tool that can lift vertically for 4'; You're not going to be able to help your high centered friend with a bottle jack. I don't think you have to have one but I'm really sick of seeing these things being regarded as useless by a bunch of guys on the internet.

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Unread 10-14-2010, 09:35 AM   #5
Happy Joe
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Quote:
You know as a web wheeler I had always considered them a waste of storage room but since going wheeling a bunch I've realized that they are quite useful.
Over more than 25 years off road wheeling difficult trails in all kinds of terrain; I have never needed one, but some people like them (wasted much space and weight carrying one for years, myself, until I realized there was no reason).

If you like it go ahead and carry it... No one is saying you can't or shouldn't.

Enjoy!
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Carburetors became obsolete during the last century... do what ever it takes to get fuel injection...It makes bigger grins off road.
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Unread 10-14-2010, 10:37 AM   #6
RogueSpear2023
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Joe View Post
MY opinion, at a minimum get;
1. Tow points front and rear (4 total), hooks are very cheap.
2. A quality 20,000 lb (minimum) snatch strap; not a tow strap, not a lifting strap, not a tow rope, not a chain, not a ratchet strap, not a come a long.
3. At least one high quality 10,000 pound rating or higher shackle (2 are better).
4. Some one that has a vehicle that is properly equipped to buddy up on trips.
5. (Much as I hate them, and consider them mostly useless) a Hi-lift brand jack can help, if you are both cheap and desperate (No, harbor freight imitations are not "just as good"). Get a quality, heavy duty chain with grab hooks to make it more versatile. Note; you must resist trying to use the chain to snatch a vehicle from a stuck, it will probably, either break, sometimes with shrapnel flying or tear pieces off of one or both vehicles. The only use the chain should see is; on road towing (with experienced personnel, only), rigging the jack or a snatch block etc, dragging logs back to camp for firewood.
6. In snow, mud, sand a quality, small shovel, not a Chinese/Korean made imitation entrenching tool. The GI entrenching tools are OK but the imitations are junk.
7. (Rarely used) a usable sized bow saw, or Svensaw, not a fold up garden saw, get a tool that is useful, for brush/tree cutting.

You can bring a come a long along if you like but you shouldn't depend on them (especially the cheap ones).

A quality winch with accessories trumps all of the above except the tow points, snatch strap and shackles.

Don't cheap out on recovery tools, you will regret it.

Enjoy!
Well said I too have used my hi-lift a few times, a winch is definitely the best but in jam the high lift will work. I wouldn't use one to change a tire though. And if you have a D35 you can use the handle with a strap to hold the shaft in while you get of the trail after snapping the shaft.
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Unread 10-14-2010, 08:17 PM   #7
heepinforChrist
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so chain is a nono for a come along but ok for a hilift? why??? any ideas of places to get a static strap? or rope, i guess i can buy rope but then what put my own loops on the end or what? sorry if i sound uneducated but i am. just want something to help me get more distance out of my comealong
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Unread 10-14-2010, 10:03 PM   #8
fishinjeeper
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I use chain to weigh down the strap in case it breaks. for a comealong or high lift, you want to use a tow strap, not snatch strap. the tow strap has much less stretch in it then a snatch strap. this is good because you dont have that much room to move with a high lift or come along. Personally I say save up and buy a Ramsey winch.
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Unread 10-14-2010, 10:12 PM   #9
luisi
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how much would a budget recovery kit cost? straps and blocks. A winch is also out of my budget right now, so a basic recovery kit would be required.
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Unread 10-14-2010, 11:04 PM   #10
shadowulf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luisi View Post
how much would a budget recovery kit cost? straps and blocks. A winch is also out of my budget right now, so a basic recovery kit would be required.
This can vary on what's important to you.
I got my Hi-Lift for $45. 2 shackles for $40. Tow strap was "gifted" to me and $50 for the snatch strap. I'm hoping to get a winch within a year. But another tow strap and some slings will prolly come sooner.

If you don't have recovery points, figure $30-$50 for tow hooks, front and rear. (Look up "junkyard upgrades" for some possible options)

Then do you need to carry a shovel? What about an axe/hatchet?

Your gear cost can start around $150 for bare bones up to thousands.
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Unread 10-14-2010, 11:17 PM   #11
luisi
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I am mostly a backpacker and really used my old 4x4 mostly in the snow upstate NY. Shovels and whatnot were in every car if you ever wanted to go anywhere, dug cars out daily in some winters. The po of my wrangler did upgrade some of it for recovery so tow hooks could be used, two up front and one in the rear towing hitch.

As far as recovery is concerned my experience is whitewater rescue and medical knowledge as a former EMT. In a wreck and need medical attention I have a decent jump bag.
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Unread 10-15-2010, 03:46 AM   #12
hammerz71
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I know you said NOT to recommend a winch, but I was at my local flea market two saturdays ago and there was a guy there with about eight of them. Two for ATVs but the rest were all truck/jeep winches varying from 6000-10,000 weight ratings. He had a battery on the table to hook up so he could show that they worked. I don't know if any were rebuilt or not, but all of them looked to be cleaned up well and in decent to very good condition.
The 6 & 8k range chinese made winches he had marked at $125 & $150 respectively. That's NOT a lot more $ than you are talking about for a high quality strap & a come along. I think the most expensive winch he had was an M8000 which he was asking $275 for.

There are good deals out there for used winches if you look hard enough...
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Unread 10-15-2010, 05:53 AM   #13
Happy Joe
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Quote:
so chain is a nono for a come along but ok for a hilift? why???
A chain is bad to use for pulling vehicles out of a stuck predicament using another vehicle because if the stuck vehicle doesn't come out with an easy pull the unstuck vehicle usually will take a run at it and very often break the chain or damage one or both vehicles.
I use chains for static rigging because they are easily adjustable, they would be fine for a come-along (its really difficult to generate 5,000 lbs of pull with even a heavy duty come-along. A high lift jack can generate up to 7,000 pounds of lift/pull. Chains are fine as long as they are in good shape and strong enough for the job and are NOT shock loaded.

I agree with hammerz71; I have gotten used 8,000 lb winches for as little as $100 (just sold one (Ramsey 8000) for $100 and a couple cases of beer). You will almost certainly spend more than this on a heavy duty come-along or a Hi-lift and chains or static straps.

You should do most of your unsticking using another vehicle and a snatch strap though (its quicker, easier, and works 90+% of the time). Snatch straps are made to stretch; so while they can generate tremendous force, they don't shock load the tow points as badly as chains, static straps, lifting straps or tow straps (if used, improperly to try to snatch a vehicle) thus helping to prevent damage

Enjoy!
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Carburetors became obsolete during the last century... do what ever it takes to get fuel injection...It makes bigger grins off road.
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Unread 10-15-2010, 08:40 AM   #14
Faramir66103
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To start with, the least expensive option is a decent recovery strap and a couple of rated shackles and to ride with another vehicle. That should cost less than $100 and will continue to be of use after you get more advanced equipment.

I like to think of rigging in terms of static versus dynamic loads.

Chain will not stretch and so it would be a poor choice to use if you're pulling out one vehicle with another. As soon as the slack in the chain is pulled out ALL of the force will be applied to the chain and vehicles. That kind of loading is VERY hard on equipment and the people in the vehicles. In this case a stretchy recovery strap will be the better choice. When the slack is pulled out, much of the force exerted by the pulling vehicle will be temporarily stored (absorbed) in the strap and then exerted on the stuck vehicle over a short period of time. This stretchyness protects the vehicles and occupants. It's similar to why all of our vehicles have springs of one kind or another.

On the other hand, if you're using a winch, come along, or HiLift to pull a vehicle out of a stuck situation, your needs are different. If you used a recovery strap to connect your pulling rig to the anchor (tree, boulder, other vehicle etc.) then you'll be fighting the stretch of the recovery strap. In this case chain or a tree saver strap would be a better choice.

Rigging/recovery can quickly get expensive, complicated and DANGEROUS if not done properly, so investing in a good rigging/recovery book (or video) and taking the time to read (or watch) it is well worth the effort.

FWIW,
Adam

Here's another thread with a great wealth of information from someone who does this sort of thing routinely.
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Unread 10-15-2010, 03:38 PM   #15
heepinforChrist
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awesome for the info gentleman thank you so much!!
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