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Unread 05-10-2008, 11:57 AM   #1
CB3
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What about winch power in, and power out feature?

What about power in, and power out feature?

Is there a need for power out? How important is that?

How difficult is it to manually pull out cable if winch doesn't have power out? I assume that's what the "power out" feature is about, but I'm not really sure what it's about.

I ask because a couple of winches I like don't have the power out feature. So how important is that, and why?

Thanks for your advice. I appreciate it.

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Unread 05-10-2008, 12:21 PM   #2
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unspooling a winch manually can be a good workout...power out is a nice feature especially at the end of the day when you are beat up from the trail.
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Unread 05-10-2008, 01:54 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vegasjeepguy View Post
unspooling a winch manually can be a good workout...power out is a nice feature especially at the end of the day when you are beat up from the trail.
I'm already beat up from permanent injuries from a serious car accident.

I'm plenty able bodied enough for a white collar job, and I walk well enough on pavement, but offroad it's very difficult for me to walk on uneven terrain since both ankles and knees are shot.

Yet I persevere and do it anyway because I'm not going to give up my favorite hobby.

So... It sounds like power out would be a very handy feature for me.

Thanks
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Unread 05-10-2008, 01:57 PM   #4
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Power out is nice to take the slack off the cable in case you gotta re-rig or something. Personally, I wouldn't consider a winch without it.
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Unread 05-10-2008, 02:26 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxxflhrci View Post
Power out is nice to take the slack off the cable in case you gotta re-rig or something. Personally, I wouldn't consider a winch without it.
+1

This seems like the most important reason to have it.
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Unread 05-10-2008, 07:51 PM   #6
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ok, say you didnt have it. You winch to something, not getting you out, tension on the cable still. How do you take that tension off? Either get unstuck somehow, or pop that clutch. I cant imagine that being good on the winch....
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Unread 05-12-2008, 07:38 AM   #7
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I, also, would not even look at a winch that did not have power both in and out... it is necessary in some situations. If the winch does not have power in, power out and the ability to declutch and pull the line out manually (free spooling) don't even consider it.

Enjoy!
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Unread 05-12-2008, 09:19 AM   #8
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Power out is a must have on a winch used for wheeling recovery, if you're winching and get to a point where you have to stop because of a position reset or if something begins to fail you need to be able to relive stress on that line without putting it in complete freespool mode.
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Unread 05-12-2008, 12:29 PM   #9
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe power out is meant for continuous usage (unspooling) as it can overheat the winch (and possibly melt synth line).
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Unread 05-13-2008, 01:00 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mecompco View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe power out is meant for continuous usage (unspooling) as it can overheat the winch (and possibly melt synth line).
I've been learning a lot about winches recently.

If you're winch has an in the drum cone brake, as most do, that add heat to the drum when running the winch under power, and especially when braking.

That puts synthetic rope at risk of heat damage, as you pointed out. One solution is to use "fire line" or "fire rope" or whatever that's called. It's sold at winchline.com under one brand name, and at other places under other names. It's very heat resistant, though the guys who sell it told me that even that stuff can overheat and get damaged if the winch overheats enough.

T-Max does have an in the drum brake, but it's some type of drum brake (think car drum brakes, I think) that makes less heat than a cone brake in the drum.

The Superwinch LP8500 that I'm becoming fond of, has some type of in the drum brake that makes less heat than a cone brake. I don't know any more details about than that - because that's all that SW told me about it. I suspect it's some type of drum brake like T-Max uses. Makes less heat than a cone brake.

I'm not sure, but I think the Smittybuilt winches might also have an in the drum drum brake that's not a cone brake. I think Smittybuilt winches are made by the same outfit that makes T-Max, but in different pull ratings so as not to compete with each other).

The Superwinch LP8500 and all TMax (and perhaps Smittybuilt) models are more suitable for use with rope due to less drum heating. Even so, I'd use fire rope with those. I think they'd heat to much for regular syn rope, but fire line would handle it just fine.

This is where the Superwinch EP and EPi winches really shine. Their external brake system does not heat the drum, and it helps them draw less amps because no brake drag. Also, their motors, gearboxes, and solenoids are superior too. So they are the best for synthetic rope. On the downside, they are very heavy winches, even with synthetic rope. All other brands of 9K winch are much lighter install weight.

The Warn XD9000, Tmax 9K and 10K, Smittybuilt 8K, and Superwinch LP8500 are the lightest of the 8K to 9K winches that I know of, and of those, the Tmax and Superwinch LP8500 are the most synthetic rope friendly due to less drum heating than the Warn. I'm not sure about the Smittybuilt for drum heating, but I think it's probably same as Tmax (good).

Tmax would be awesome if they fix their hinky remote to operate safely. i.e. - stop winching immediately when you tell it to. Currently it continues winching after you tell it to stop, according to reviewers. That would scare the stuff out of me.

Anyway, your winchrope and drum overheating issues are less of a concern with Tmax all models, Superwinch LP8500, and possilbly Smittybuilt - because they have more efficient in the drum brakes that make less heat (and allow less amp draw).

The very best for a cool drum is the Superwinch EP winches because they have an external disk brake that adds not heat to the drum, and allows even lower amp draws than the LP8500. Also the EP winches rock for line speed. I just don't like how much they weigh. Their install weights are very heavy. Even with rope they're still heavy.

A Superwinch EP9 with rope weighs about the same as an SW LP8500, Tmax 9000, Smittybuilt 8000, or Warn XD9000 with cable. Yipes! Now, put rope on the SW LP8500, Tmax 9000, Smittybuilt 8000, or Warn XD9000 and you've got a very light winch. That explains why I'm not buying a SW EP winch.

Of the lightweight powerful winches listed in paragraph above, the SW LP8500 and Tmax all models (and possibly the Smittybuilt) are the best for adding less heat to drum. Since Tmax has a dangerous remote, and Smittybuilt offers almost no info on their winch, that leaves the SW LP8500 as my best choice for a very light install weight winch that is reasonably rope friendly. If I hope it up by using an EP9 solenoid, then the LP8500 should be really sweet and still light. I would put rope on it. Perhaps fire line or whatever that heat resistant rope is called.
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Unread 05-13-2008, 01:09 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mecompco View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe power out is meant for continuous usage (unspooling) as it can overheat the winch (and possibly melt synth line).
I think you are correct with regard to most brands of winches. I think it's more for when you cannot winch yourself any farther, and need to let out some line to get slack to give up or try again in some other way. As someone pointed out to me, what would you do if you couldn't winch yourself free, and there was a lot of tension on the cable/rope? How would you release the tension? Pop the winch clutch? Probably not a good idea. However, you could safely use power out to give slack. After someone explained this to me, it makes sense.

As for using power out to spool out cable. I'm not sure about that one. However, I do know (based on what I've been told) that would add heat to drum, which might be bad for cable.

That is one reason I like the SW LP8500, Tmax, and possibly Smittybuilt. A brake design that doesn't drag as much when drum is turning. So it gets less hot than with a cone brake design. I'm told.

However, a Superwinch EP and EPi winch has a disk brake that is external from the drum. So it adds no heat to drum and pulls very low amps because it doesn't have a dragging internal brake. Hence no drum overheating concerns. So the SW EP winches I would power out as much as I wanted, even continuous. I think it wouldn't hurt those a bit.

If I had a Superwinch LP8500, Tmax, or possibly Smittybuilt, I'd be a bit concerned about heat, but less than I would with other winches that have cone brakes inside the drum (prone to overheating drum).

The above based on what I've been told recently by various knowledable people, and research I've done, and things I've read.

However, as yet I do not own a winch. So please realize that anything I say is second hand information.
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Unread 05-21-2008, 05:45 PM   #12
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Dare I even mention it, but because you want to use the power out feature to aid in unspooling the line, have you considered a Mile Marker Hydraulic. There is no "brake" like the electrics use. It simply closes the valve and it stops turning. You can unspool and re spool all day long, with standard syn winch line and it will never come close to over heating.

With two speeds, it would make unspooling as quick as most of the electrics. Just throwing out an option that most people forget about....
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Unread 05-24-2008, 12:00 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by notmyj View Post
Dare I even mention it, but because you want to use the power out feature to aid in unspooling the line, have you considered a Mile Marker Hydraulic. There is no "brake" like the electrics use. It simply closes the valve and it stops turning. You can unspool and re spool all day long, with standard syn winch line and it will never come close to over heating.

With two speeds, it would make unspooling as quick as most of the electrics. Just throwing out an option that most people forget about....
There is no brake due to the worm gear style of drive on the winch. Worm gears are self braking due to the 90 deg mesh of the gears. The Superwinch Husky line of electric winches are also worm gear drive and have no brake.
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Unread 05-26-2008, 02:14 PM   #14
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My mile marker is not a worm drive. It is a planetary drive. due to the nature of hydraulics, it doesnt have a brake. however, you are correct about the worm drive though.
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If it has tracks, tires or tits, its gonna cause a problem.

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Originally Posted by Warren Zevon
Send lawyers, guns and money. The **** has hit the fan...
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Unread 05-27-2008, 07:07 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by CB3 View Post

Tmax would be awesome if they fix their hinky remote to operate safely. i.e. - stop winching immediately when you tell it to. Currently it continues winching after you tell it to stop, according to reviewers. That would scare the stuff out of me.
I believe this is only an issue with the Tmax wireless remotes. Appearently, there is a slight delay, starting and stoping. I have a Tmax EW8000, with the pendant remote only. It has no delay at all and stops when you want it to. I've been very pleased with it's preformance.
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