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Unread 11-05-2006, 07:45 PM   #16
sailgclass
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I'm a sailor, and a scout, and somewhat of a knot geek. Anyway, sheepshank would be ok for shortening but requires the line/strap to be taut for the knot to hold. I'd shy away from it though, a sheepshank is not a knot i would trust to hold me hanging off a cliff, and not something i would use for recovery. Like someone said, doubling up the strap is the best method to shorten it.

A double bowline, while it would shorten the line, could be very difficult to untie if i both bights weren't pulled equally and the knot collapsed.

The picture someone else showed off how to tie 2 straps together looked good, but i might try "tying" a larks head. You just stick one end of the looped strap through the loop of the other one, and then feed the strap back through its own loop. In my experience, they've always been easy to untie. ANd that would definetly be better than using a shackle in the middle, that could be deadly.

Just some thoughts

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Unread 11-05-2006, 11:10 PM   #17
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The sheepshank is the premier knot for shortning ropes.
He asked for a knot to shorten a rope, I gave him one.
The sheep shank also is good for bypassing a damadged section of rope, and in some cases joining two sections of rope.
I agree, a larks head would be a good choice in this situtation, way to think outside of the box.
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Unread 11-05-2006, 11:14 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailgclass
I'm a sailor, and a scout, and somewhat of a knot geek. Anyway, sheepshank would be ok for shortening but requires the line/strap to be taut for the knot to hold. I'd shy away from it though, a sheepshank is not a knot i would trust to hold me hanging off a cliff, and not something i would use for recovery. Like someone said, doubling up the strap is the best method to shorten it.

A double bowline, while it would shorten the line, could be very difficult to untie if i both bights weren't pulled equally and the knot collapsed.

The picture someone else showed off how to tie 2 straps together looked good, but i might try "tying" a larks head. You just stick one end of the looped strap through the loop of the other one, and then feed the strap back through its own loop. In my experience, they've always been easy to untie. ANd that would definetly be better than using a shackle in the middle, that could be deadly.

Just some thoughts
If you tie the sheepshank and leave the loops large, you can pass the standing ends through effectively making a pair of bowlines, but without the loops tightening. Makes it less worrisome on keeping the lines tight. You could also use some electrical tape to keep the loops in place.
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Unread 11-06-2006, 07:37 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailgclass

The picture someone else showed off how to tie 2 straps together looked good, but i might try "tying" a larks head. You just stick one end of the looped strap through the loop of the other one, and then feed the strap back through its own loop. In my experience, they've always been easy to untie...
I tried that once, and it made me the proud new owner of a 70' recovery strap. Me, and three or four other guys couldn't budge the knot and I still cant think of a way to soften it without damaging the strap.

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Unread 11-06-2006, 09:11 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommaho
I tried that once, and it made me the proud new owner of a 70' recovery strap.

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Unread 11-06-2006, 10:18 AM   #21
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interesting. haha, so maybe you shouldnt try a larks head. sorry to hear that. interesting idea about the sheepshank and the standing end, making sheet bends. could be worth a try, but that could be much harder to untie than a sheepshank, although it would undoubtedly be stronger.

here's a thought, what about tying a butterfly knot in the middle of the line and using it to pull from and thus shorten the line.
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Unread 11-06-2006, 12:02 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey B
I think the saying goes,

Ask a sailor to tie you a knot

but remeber tying knots reduces the breaking strength of a line, and just for argument sake, I used a bowline the other day when I got a truck stuck in sand and it came right out afterwards


Mikey b
A boline will work but like you said. Any time you bend a rope, you loose strength. If you use a figure eight on a bight, you loose some strength but you also have one of the safest knots around. It is used for multiple life saving events. I would suggest that you just use a shorter strap for safety sake.
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Unread 11-06-2006, 05:49 PM   #23
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Unread 11-06-2006, 06:52 PM   #24
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A knot is always the weakest point. I'd never tie any kind of knot in a strap.
Wouldn't it be cheaper and safer to just buy a shorter strap.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knot
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Unread 11-06-2006, 07:25 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue XJ
NEVER use a d-ring to join more than 1 tow strap, if the strap broke, the d-ring will come flying right back at you. Many people have died from this.


To tie two straps together, get a small stick and put it in the middle of the knot, this way they can be removed after they are used.


Me and a buddy had to do this with 3 tow straps. We were wheeling on a snow and ice covered switch back and i got stuck. My buddy wasnt able to turn around to winch me nor could a snatch block be deployed. We tied the 3 straps in the method above and he tugged me back onto the path. It was rather easy to undo the knot or wrap...whatever they're called.
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Unread 11-06-2006, 07:36 PM   #26
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I used a larks head on the receiver shakle the other day to pull a post out of the ground... it was pretty tight afterwards
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Unread 11-15-2006, 04:19 PM   #27
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Since no one mentioned it, I'll go.

You can undo knots by hammering them loose. Just take a random hammer and gently bang on it in all the directions you can think of, and slowly you'll be able to get it free.
Has worked for me on everything, from the little tie-down straps to the big recovery strap (now why that one had a knot, I'll never figure out ... oh yeah, because I tore it apart. Doh.)
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Unread 11-15-2006, 04:47 PM   #28
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a hammer will damage the threads of the rope/strap. if you have done this to a recovery strap i wouldnt want to trust my life on it. as stated before a not will weaken the strap and could cause damage. just fork out the cash for a shorter one.
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Unread 11-18-2006, 09:13 PM   #29
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I really agree that the best idea is to either double the long strap back, or just carry a couple of straps of different lengths. If you're wheeling with a group, each of you only needs one, as long as they're differing lengths.

One reason knots are going to be hard to untie is that they stretch under load, and then once the stress is removed, that tension will still be in the knot. Not to mention the vast decrease in strength a knot creates.

I'm a former Boy Scout, I've taught wilderness search and rescue and I've rigged speaker arrays all over the world, for what it's worth.

If you're interested in knots in all sorts of materials, check out "Wilderness Search And Rescue" by Tim J. Stenicka. He's worked SAR teams in Yosemite, Glacier Bay and Grand Teton. That book is full of just about everything you could ever want to know about SAR. Another book that's really good is is "Stage Rigging Handbook" by Jay O. Glerum. And of course Bill Burke's stuff is fantastic.

FWIW,
Adam
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