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“Thank you sir, may we have another.” - The Saga of the MetalCloak Frame Built Bumper

49K views 184 replies 57 participants last post by  ss427ci 
#1 ·
"Thank you sir, may we have another."

What an awesome flaming of our first release of the MetalCloak Frame-Built™ bumper system -- you can see the original post here: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/what-do-you-think-metalcloak-bumper-826969/

The multitude of posts on all the top jeep forums, not just this one, provided an incredible pool of blatant flames, incredible ideas, and interesting concepts for improving this product... thank you. :2thumbsup:

Thank you also for all of the compliments on our benchmark MetalCloak Arched Tube Fenders™. Anyone that read the flaming posts a few years ago relative to the first (alpha revision) release of the (then Rev111) Arched Tube Fenders would say that the bumper thread did not look near as bad "in comparison". :laugh: In the case of our Arched Tube Fenders we did our best to address most of the feedback, resulting in our flagship MetalCloak product line.

As I try to do a better job describing the Frame-Built™ bumper system as well as all the improvements added in the past couple months I will try to include as much of the feedback (flame and otherwise) associated with the revisions as possible. Let me start by showing the photograph on the original post. The rest of this thread will detail the changes and what we mean by Build Your Own Bumper!


This is the original picture and first glimpse the world had of our bumper.

----------------------

First, I would like to give kudos to the best flame we received.
BossBuilt said:
"Whats a stinger? It has wings? Is it a Bee?"
Very deserving, and as you will see throughout this thread, we took your comments to heart changing the official names of our bumper "wings" to uh... Caps - Stubbie Caps, MINI Caps, Crawler Caps... etc.

Then there's the massive hoop configuration above.
Lumpster said:
"...what are the bars sticking out from the front for? I hopes its not for looks"
QuickSilverCon said:
"the front hoops don't provide any foreseeable benefit to my type of wheeling."
BoSoxGp said:
"that whole bumper/cow pusher looks like hell."
mg2000xj said:
"Ugly grill hoop kills it for me"
willy05TJ said:
"i guess it could be used to push cattle along."
cartwrigth27 said:
"I like the integrated grill guard but don't like the styling of the two forward hoops."
Why J? said:
"redesign the front horns, no reason to be there. Redesign to add some hoop support that is reasonable and you could have something."
and many more...

It was painfully obvious that the hoop system and our introductory post was a poor attempt at best.

This is a Frame Built™ system meaning that we have a multitude of trail tested components that individually mount directly to the frame of the Jeep or, as a whole, will create a bumper tailored to the needs of the owner.

There are currently 5 hoop configurations going through R&D, with more to come. And as part of our ongoing development we are open to designing hoops (or other options) around sketches and ideas from you, the end user. BTW, if you're the first to present the idea, and assuming we implement it, we will give you the first production unit for free.

So lets look at the revisions made in the last couple months and hopefully collect some more great feedback!!!


The new MetalCloak Frame-Built Modular Bumper Options...

---------------

Our design philosophy at MetalCloak is to create products with unique and original looks with greater functionality. We refuse to build "me too" products. Therefore we have to take some risks on styling and features. In general when we hear comments like "that is definitely different" we know we are on the right track. We believe we are on the right track with this Frame Built™ Modular bumper system and we will just continue to listen to your feedback and continue to improve the product.

Srooney said:
"...the YJ and TJ bolt patterns are similar why not make some small mods and such that your bumper system fits both a YJ and TJ."
Done... the new model will fit either a TJ/LJ or a YJ and the base is available in both Hot Rolled Steel or Stainless Steel. Here a similar build (stainless steel base) is shown on both rigs, using basically the same components:


Slope said:
"...dude, the front sticks out so much it looks like a diving board"
NikVallens said:
"... the bumper looks like one massive chunk of unnecessary weight."
Great suggestions!!!! We moved the front of the main base plate all the way back to the frame and moved the fairlead mounts to the front/top angle of the bumper. Yet we still kept 1 ¾" of clearance between the winch and the air intake of the front grill.


The space between the Warn Powerplant and the TJ grill

This feedback substantially improved the look, weight and price point of the unit. :thumbsup:

Matsky said:
"...my TJ has a stock sway bar how could I possibly mount any of your hoop designs."
WillyNilly said:
" u sure that hoop will work with stock fenders?"
Done! All our current and future hoop configurations allow for the use of a stock sway bar on the TJ and will not interfere with stock fenders.


Just a couple of hoop options, with more including grill guards, to come.

Why J? said:
"...Tie into the current fenders to add strength across the entire front of the jeep."
This is a good time to mention that many have suggested that we physically tie our fenders to our bumper system. But, as a matter of engineering, we are not prone to do that since our fenders are secured to the body and the bumper is secured to the frame. The movement/flex that occurs between the body and the frame during off-road experiences would wreak havok and destroy any "tie" between the body and frame.

Rubicon1000 said:
"can u put a high lift jack under the rings and jack the jeep up?"
Great point... the answer is yes there is plenty of room to use your hi-lift on the upper shackles. However, if one still wants a lower recovery point we've added a shackle mount component at the forward angle of the base plate.

http://www.metalcloak.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/2141.jpg[/IMG

Forward-Angle shackles.

[quote=QuickSilverCon] "The thing is way too wide"[/quote]
[quote=BoSoxGp] "i wouldn't buy the "removable wings", look like they would hang up on the approach."[/quote]
[quote=Andy M] "i would like to see a stubbier end cap...that one looks a little wide for me"[/quote]

This was already part of the original design, but we did not show our "Crawler Cap" cap in that first thread. Here is a look at a couple of few different cap options. There will be more to come based on customer requests.

[IMG]http://www.metalcloak.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/2122.jpg



The real purpose of this thread is to better explain that the Frame Built™ Modular bumper system allows for hundreds of configurations with new options being developed every week -- our modular bumper system will continue to evolves and improve based on your feedback.

So let us know what you want, what you desire, and if it makes sense we will add the option.

Recent suggestions we are developing include license plate bracket, new fairleads, hi-lift mounts, light mounts (recesses), grill/hood guard, steering box skid plate, end caps for stock fenders, recovery hooks, marker lights and more!

Finally … and possibly most importantly

rubicon1000 said:
"very expensive"
BoSoxGp said:
"id never pay that much for a front bumper"
Quicksilver said:
"Hopefully you can bring the price down"
Cartwrigth27 said:
"And the price for a base stubby seems a little high"
NikVallens said:
"Very high price"
Hughes16 said:
" for almost $1,000"
stwilson74 said:
"...Reasons for disliking the bumper: 1) Price..."
DJ404564X4 said:
"for the seven hundred odd dollars your charging, you can get a whole lot of bumpers."
Okay, we got it... Thanks! We recognize that we missed the mark on price. :doh: The recent revisions presented here, thanks to your feedback, have substantially reduced the overall production cost of the system. These reductions in cost translate into a substantial reduction in the price of your build.

Here are just some of the builds we've already shipped to customers across the country.


With our 20% sale, these pre-configured builds range in price from $200 for the Stealth to $600 for Ezzy's Build.

What's your build? Maybe your bumper will be our next pre-configured offering!

For a full list of our current builds and to BUILD YOUR OWN BUMPER, go to:
MetalCloak TJ/LJ/YJ Frame Built(TM) Modular Bumpers

-------------------

At MetalCloak we strive to create American-made uniquely styled products, with more features, improved functionality and at a reasonable price. With every new release, we strive to hit the mark on all our goals, but that's not always the case. But, over time, we will listen to you and make the improvements necessary to hit the target! Thank you for your review and we look forward to your continued flames, uh, feedback. :2thumbsup:

Doug
"jeepineer"
MetalCloak Engineer
 
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11
#2 ·
awesome post and its cool to see ur open to suggestions. I like hood hoops to protect the radiator and stingers are ugly and to be effective, neet to be really big as well. What does a smaller hoop accomplish other than to possibly protect the winch? Only other thing i can see is with the front hoops, will there be any interference with the winch-line under a hard side pull? Looks like the D-rings up front will serve well, but that hi-lift is maxed out with no travel!

As a shade tree fabricator and always a student of new designs, ideas, etc., you're doing great.

Keep up the fine efforts.

mb
 
#12 ·
I appreciate the sense of humour in your post :)

I KINDA liked the "forward facing" hoops - unique, different, etc. I'd probably like them a little different - but I like the general concept.

For me, price isn't an issue - if I want something bad enough, I'll buy it.

What I really DO NOT like is the whole "modular" concept. It's a bumper, not a underwater habitat. I don't like the idea idea of a "bolt together" bumper. I want it welded tight and secure. Your animated graphic in the OP demonstrates what I really do not like about this idea. I can understand (or at least guess) what you're trying to accomplish here - but even if there were a "modular configuration" that I liked with your bumper, I would still take a pass and buy something welded together (such as the AEV bumper on my JK).

Also, any product that has laser-cut logos in it is instantly downgraded as a potential purchase for me. I'm not saying I will not still buy it, potentially, but such a logo will definitely cause me to look around and see what else I can buy, even if I otherwise really like the product. For as much as this stuff costs, I do not expect to be forced into advertising for whomever makes it (plus I think it just looks lame/ugly). With a sticker or decal or whatever, at least I have the option of peeling it off.

Good luck!
 
#16 ·
You guys really know how to fab stuff, and you clearly make quality products. I'm impressed with the openness on the forum and the designs & concepts from an engineering standpoint. Keep up the good work on that end.

But damn, that bumper if fugly. Not my style at all. To complicated, to much bolt on stuff, not a clean look and a flashy logo :thumbdown:
 
#17 ·
wow like this bumper way better than the first, why not add a comp style stinger to the mix?.... also, just noticed you added the cutout wheel opening to the rear fenders, was wonderin if it still uses the same tube and you just cut the base? I got the rear fenders before the option, and ended up cutting out maybe around 1.5 inches both front and back, until the tube stopped me from going further
 
#18 · (Edited)
The cut-out uses the same flares. Only the mounting plate is modified. I'd like more info about your build, send me a PM.

Glad you like the bumper! :2thumbsup: Send us an image of what style stinger you are looking for and if we incorporate it into our product line-up, we will send you the first production model for free.

:cheers2:
 
#20 ·
I think in general your stuff is needlessly overcomplicated and way over priced for the market (despite good looking fab). A bumper is still just a bumper after all. The ability to customize the bumper setup is innovative, but I wonder how much weight could be saved and strength increased if these things were one piece deals.
 
#21 ·
i agree that the bolt together nature of this is too.......lego like. I can't imagine it being too difficult to put together a few jigs to weld the pieces together.

Before i make a judgment call on price, i'd like to see the prices of individual components/finishes. $785 (that's what it says on the website, not the $685 you posted here) for that ezzy bumper his pretty steep. However, you guys are on-par for price w/ the Hanson bumpers, but i for the price/appearance, they'd get my money.

Why not offer, bare steel/aluminum, save people the cost of powdercoat. I for one wouldn't mind saving $100+ for powder coat, or lack of.

I'm also not a fan of the pointed leading edge. Why not make the the upper face vertical, but leave the bottom angled? and ditch the laser cut for a sticker logo. People would have to ask what the M was for anyway, so it's not very effective as a built-in billboard.
 
#24 ·
Thank you for the awesome points! :2thumbsup:

As the post mentions: "With our 20% sale, these pre-configured builds range in price from $248 for the Stealth to $628 for Ezzy's Build." But I was remiss in not clearly defining that the Build Your Own Bumper link on our our Frame Built webpage is where you can also find each of the individual components listed for sale.

Here is a direct link: Order Your Own TJ/LJ/YJ Frame-Built Modular Bumper

As for the bolt-on nature. We truly appreciate all the great companies that have developed and continue to develop great and effective bumpers for Jeepers everywhere, but, as we mention in the thread, at MetalCloak we are always striving for something different, something unique and something that stretches the limits of the industry, while maintaining the goal of having the highest quality fabrication in the marketplace. (see the thread on our manufacturing process HERE).

Like our original Arched Tube Fenders, we expect many will like this Frame-Built concept with replaceable trail-tested components and many will not, but we value and respect each of you and your great feedback.

Thank you!!! :cheers2:
 
#22 ·
I don't understand why people are so against bolting things to the bumper, my bumper currently isn't welded to the frame and I'm not worried about it.... and especially with this bumper, the way it looks like with this bumper there are quite a few bolts, meaning it could take a beating and I would be more worried about the bumper deforming than the bolts shearing
 
#27 ·
What about adding a engine roll bar and comp stinger to the list? I think a bumper with a engine roll bar and comp stinger will be very affective and not only look good but protect the jeep too.
 
#29 ·
I definitely agree with the Radiator Hoop / Stinger combo. I would think that it would have to be welded together but you might be able to use bolt on supports for it that way it would be interchangeable with the different size stinger/winch guards you offer. Also I don't know if this would be at all possible but maybe you could also try to figure out a way to recess the winch into the bumper so that they do not block the grill so much. I've seen this done with a few different bumpers and it really makes it look clean.
 
#30 ·
Much better looking product. While the modular concept is obviously not for everyone, it is different and permits the buyer to get exactly the features he/she is looking for. The market is flooded with welded black powdercoated bumpers so it is nice to see another avenue.

I applaud your ability and willingness to accept customer feedback and completely overhaul your product to meet many of the requests of the potential user. A very basic but mostly ignored facet of customer service these days. Two thumbs up.
 
#31 ·
looks like something that belongs on a jk.

i dont like my bumpers looking like robocops schlong lol.

but really tho... not bad, just not my thing. i prefer simple things.

but i would like to see some pics of a yj with the arched fenders, and this bumper on it.
 
#39 ·
but i would like to see some pics of a yj with the arched fenders, and this bumper on it.
Here is our YJ with the Arched Tube Fender and our Frame-Built Bumper. I plan on adding the stinger to it and will re-post pics when I finish that mod.


:cheers2:
 
#32 ·
How well do the front hoops actually protect? I had a bolt on light hoop/winch guard that bent back pretty good into my winch. Shattered 2 lights, cracked my winch housing, and bent my grille a bit.

Have you done any testing to see what kind of impacts that front stinger/winch guard can actually take? Just curious.
 
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