[Ross]

Originally Posted by badoosh27

i know they can break, but the odds of my little TJ making enough force to break it is zero.

It dosen't matter how much a vechicle weighs it matters how stuck it is. A wrangler is less than 4K and bigger truck may can be 6K. That is only rolling weight. My hardest pull was a little sammy wedged between rocks. It was the lightes vehicle I have ever recovered but becasue of the way it was stuck it required the most force to recover it. A 8k vehicle stuck on a sheet of ice would be nothing to recover compared to a vechicle half it weight stuck up to the frame rails in mud.

I had a chain rated at 4k and it was big, way to big to drag around on a trail. Recovery starps can be rated at about 10xs that and only weigh a few pounds.

[JasonJW]

Originally Posted by Ross

It dosen't matter how much a vechicle weighs it matters how stuck it is.

x2.. I once got a tracker so stuck in soupy mud, we ended up having to rent two 6 ton chain come-alongs to get it out (way overkill, but the rental place didn't have many options). Damn near destroyed a rear frame member in the process, started to pull the bolt holes oval where the bumper was attached. It was there for two days.. figured who could steal it? I had managed to "float" and wheel spin it through a marshy mess, and I made the mistake of stopping in the middle so it promptly got stuck and eventually sank up over the tires. Afterwards we figured out that if I had spun the wheels a bit to break the suction it probably would have come out easier.. it was in there like a stuck boot. Many lessons learned.

[joeyprice]

Originally Posted by badoosh27

your gearing makes for more torque in reverse, so its a pretty good idea...

make sure the vehicle you're towing can handle it too!!
case and point: http://youtube.com/watch?v=LTHnqB7w3cA

The 6 speed tranny (NGS370) is actually lower in 1st than reverse,
4.46 vs. 4.06

[jcm11881]

Originally Posted by msavard

No worries man.. we all start somewhere.

Little tip on the shackles... I keep my torqued down as well... Just use a screwdriver (or anything with a tip that will fit through the hole) through the hole at the end of the pin to gain leverage to twist it.... get a lot of leverage that way.

Congrats on being smart enough to seek out the proper way to recover a vehicle instead of just winging it and risking injury/damage.

I have to disagree with over torquing your shackles. I have taken rigging classes through the job, and a master rigger taught us to tighten down the shackle pin, the actually loosen it a hair. The reason for this is, that if for any reason you needed to loosen the shackle while under load, you would be able to.

[Happy Joe]

Lots of good points;
I would avoid trying to pull in reverse (unless there is no other option). Forward cut differential gears are 25 to 30% weaker in reverse and many have been broken this way.

The proper way to rig a tree strap is to use a shackle since there is less chance of the tree strap slipping off of a shackle than a hook (don't depend on those flimsy safety latches that come on the hooks).

Properly rigged there is little difference between the (I believe, now obsolete) quick pin type of shackles and the screw type. When improperly rigged the screw type has a substantial advantage as the pin is retained by threads instead of a piece of relatively thin spring wire.

I torque shackles only finger tight as I see no advantage to over tightening for winching operations.

If a vehicle is securely stuck in mud pulling at an angle or sideways on one end some times will break it free when a straight pull (forward or back ) has no affect.

Looping straps through each other is a bad idea (if you don't put a rolled magazine or towel etc in the "knot" as the knot can tighten to the point where it is nearly impossible to untie.

When evaluating an extraction I normally make the owner make the connection to their own vehicle so there will be less problem if I pull some thing off (I have pulled off bumpers and trailer hitches that looked securely attached but were not).

I think twice about helping people who do not have tow points as the chances of damage to their vehicle is increased.

When tying off the frame to a tree I use 2 rear tow points (one on each side of the rear bumper/crossmember) to avoid tweaking the frame into a diamond shape when winching.

When attaching two vehicles together to drag out a third; put the lightest vehicle the farthest from the stuck vehicle to help avoid tweaking its frame.

When helping extremely stoned or drunk people make them stand under a tree while someone else handles their vehicle.

Enjoy!

[mschviuz]

Originally Posted by Happy Joe

When helping extremely stoned or drunk people make them stand under a tree while someone else handles their vehicle.

I like that

[StrokedWJ]

Originally Posted by Rubicon 05 LJ

Plus, two straps can be easily joined at the loops w/ either a D ring or by linking the loops together directly (passing one strap through the other's loop then back through itsown loop).

Dave

NOO!
Linking 2 straps with a D-ring is just as bad as using a strap with metal hooks. If something goes wrong, the D-ring becomes a deadly projectile. Also, looping one strap through the other and back through itself places stress on parts of the strap that aren't designed for it. Check out the Video with John Rich @ 4:10...he demonstrates how to properly connect 2 straps using a "figure of 8 knot".

Also, to you guys using shackles with screw pins...You're supposed to hand tighten the pins, then back them off 1/2 turn. Again, the video with John Rich demonstrates that too.

[Andrew F]

Originally Posted by Kiwi Jeeper

Yes, but what about the strength of teeth on your diff gear set. They are cut with the view that they would be strongest when pulling in the forward direction (your normal direction of motion). I have seen diff gearing being destroyed while pulling in reverse direction.

Unless you have a high pinion front, this is only true for the rear axle.

[MoJeeper]

Originally Posted by Happy Joe

.

The proper way to rig a tree strap is to use a shackle since there is less chance of the tree strap slipping off of a shackle than a hook (don't depend on those flimsy safety latches that come on the hooks).

Yea that way if the strap breaks you have about 6 lB flying back at ya instead of just the 2 lb hook. Under pull that hook is not going to slip off the strap.

[creature]

Originally Posted by joeyprice

The 6 speed tranny (NGS370) is actually lower in 1st than reverse,
4.46 vs. 4.06

likewise with the AW4 four speed auto. 2.804 in first, 2.393 in reverse.

[Happy Joe]

Yea that way if the strap breaks you have about 6 lB flying back at ya instead of just the 2 lb hook. Under pull that hook is not going to slip off the strap.

I beg to differ; A proper tree strap has next to no stretch and it is rated in excess of twice the pull rating of the winch (in case you use a snatch block). I have never seen a tree strap break (like lifting straps and snatch straps they do need to be examined for wear and fraying before/after each use and replaced when the indicator strings show). Unlike snatch straps they are much less likely to become abraded or cut by sharp edges. They are normally not subjected to shock loading as snatch straps are, instead they are normally subjected to slow relatively steady pulls. Following safe strap inspection procedures and keeping them clean will minimize the chances of failure.

If you compare the size of the hook to the amount of strap it is supposed to contain you will note that it is normally difficult (at best) to get the spring latch on the hook to securely hold both of the loops. This often results in a choker type rigging that is known to be weaker than the basket type and therefore has a greater chance of breaking. The use of the shackle allows the tree strap loops to both be linked to the hook without resorting to a choker rig or to having one of the loops only partially contained in the hook (I have also seen hooks pierce the straps because the loops were not being fully retained in the hook, this is bad and resulting in a weak point in the strap loop, requiring strap replacement.).

If a tree strap should break the strap itself will tend to slow the shackle and hook as the strap unwraps around the tree.

In any case accepted winch practice includes something over the cable so that if something breaks the amount of damage is (hopefully) reduced. Most winch incidents due to tow point failure seem to result in the cable recoiling only slightly and falling to the ground (along with the bumper/trailer hitch etc). Full load cable failure seems to result in the cable whipping. The result if this can be loss of limb and life. Cable failure is normally due to lack of inspection and maintenance or by jerking on the cable (i.e. the vehicle being winched tries to climb the obstacle, makes slack in the cable then drops back with a jerk). (A winch is not a snatch strap and should not be used like one).

Feel free to do it your way but I believe mine is safer.

Enjoy!

[EHUPP01]

Originally Posted by jcm11881

I have to disagree with over torquing your shackles. I have taken rigging classes through the job, and a master rigger taught us to tighten down the shackle pin, the actually loosen it a hair. The reason for this is, that if for any reason you needed to loosen the shackle while under load, you would be able to.

X2 proper rigging.

[badoosh27]

i dont know what my chain is rated for because i found it on the side of a road, but i do know the links are bigger than any other chain i've seen.

joey, my comment about the gearing in reverse was mainly about my tranny (AX-15). i didnt know anything about the 6 spd, but now i do. thanks