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Unread 09-11-2012, 12:24 PM   #1
05Unlimited
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Northridge 4x4 recovery "package" ...better than piecing together?

I'm snatch block (and other recover gear) shopping since at least initially I am going to use a More Power Puller in lieu of a winch (it has so many other uses and can pull from any direction, plus I don't have to keep ~100+ lbs permanently mounted on the front bumper). The reason I think a snatch block is essential is the hand winch's max is only 3 tons ...so a snatch block will effectively double it to 6 tons, making it easier on everything (including me) and safer.

So upon shopping around for snatch blocks it seems to me that the ARB 9000 is the way to go, and it accepts the synthetic line I'll be using on my More Power Puller. Since I need a tree saver and recovery strap ...and D-rings to connect all this stuff, I looked at Northridge 4x4 and found this package deal wtih storage bag:

http://www.northridge4x4.com/shop/ar...g-recovery-kit

I'm thinking it's a "go" compared to piecing together my own thing, especially since the shipping is free. Do you all agree or could I get a much better deal piecing those items together?

btw, here's the Power Puller I'll be using (much better than your average come along), along with an extension handle and an extra main handle (in case the main handle would bend prior to the line snapping as it's designed to do):

http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdet...FYY-MgodORYA2A

Finally, I'm using a WASP as well:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Smittybilt-W...item2a21b03ccb

lol I'll be using most all of the recovery gear you can have except the best of them all (a winch)

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2005 LJ, NSG-370 6-spd (close-ratio), 3.73's, three tops incl. custom Sunrider-Safari top, 38"x22" hardtop sunroof, OME 2.5", JKS 1.25 BL/1.0 MML, seats 2"^, 285/75/16 Duratracs, Ion 171's (16x8), Alpine CDE135-BT/KTP-445/Polk521Db/650Db, full soft/hard doors, Harley L.Stms, "I swear my Jeep is staying stock"
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Unread 09-14-2012, 01:01 PM   #2
05Unlimited
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My first post was too long. Do you all think this package deal is good or would I save a lot by piecing the same stuff together? ...I haven't priced this stuff much, and shipping the package deal is free from Northridge 4x4:

http://www.northridge4x4.com/shop/ar...g-recovery-kit
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2005 LJ, NSG-370 6-spd (close-ratio), 3.73's, three tops incl. custom Sunrider-Safari top, 38"x22" hardtop sunroof, OME 2.5", JKS 1.25 BL/1.0 MML, seats 2"^, 285/75/16 Duratracs, Ion 171's (16x8), Alpine CDE135-BT/KTP-445/Polk521Db/650Db, full soft/hard doors, Harley L.Stms, "I swear my Jeep is staying stock"
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Unread 09-14-2012, 05:23 PM   #3
shu2kill
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why not save $48 more and get a Warn M8000?? besides the weight issue i cant see an advantage of your system over a real winch.... even a Smittybilt XRC8 that can be had for $300 would be better IMO...

http://www.gowarn.com/shoppingcart.aspx
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Unread 09-14-2012, 10:34 PM   #4
billzcat1
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My take is that you should balance what you spend vs the likelihood you'll need to depend on it. Do you need a $100 recovery strap you'll never use? There's no question the ARB recovery gear is good quality stuff but you'll be massively overpaying for things like shackles and a bag. And the likelihood you'll rig up that $100 snatch block with your come-a-long is pretty slim. Another thing to consider is that equipment gets damaged, lost, stolen. An ARB recovery bag is a prime target. And your $100 recovery strap can break just like the $20 one. I'd be a lot less upset at a $20 strap breaking than a $100 strap. And a lot less upset if it were stolen.

I would say start cheap and see if it meets your needs. If it doesn't, then you can upgrade. My wheeling/recovery bag has:
20' 20k recovery strap: $22 (use it all the time)
4 shackles (2 5/8, 1 3/4, 1 1-1/4" 20T monster) plus one 3/4" on my D-ring. $15ea for the smaller shackles, $20 for the biggun
5k mini-J hook $18 from a towing supplier
10k grab hook $28
6' tree strap $40
18k snatch block $25 (never needed it, glad I didn't spend too much on it)
MV50 air compressor $59, use it all the time over the last 3 years
Currie deflator $28, use it all the time
Winch remote
Screwdrivers
Snips
Air pressure gauge
Zipties
All of it comes in under $300 and that's with a ton more stuff that has all given me good use, some of which gets put to use every single time we go out. If my stuff got stolen, yes I'd be pissed but if I bought top-of-the-line equipment we'd be talking about a $1000 bag.

Now, I'm not a crazy hardcore wheeler, you can see my build thread to see where I go. I hit ORV areas and easy and medium trails. Not a bug mudder or strict rock-climber. Mostly tight rocky trails.
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Unread 09-15-2012, 09:51 AM   #5
05Unlimited
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shu2kill View Post
why not save $48 more and get a Warn M8000?? besides the weight issue i cant see an advantage of your system over a real winch.... even a Smittybilt XRC8 that can be had for $300 would be better IMO...

http://www.gowarn.com/shoppingcart.aspx
That link probably didn't work the way you intended. Since you mention the Smittybilt, do you think that's better than an ENGO 9000 (comparable)? To answer your question, it seems to me that the items in this package deal are other recovery items you'd want anyway (with or without a winch), so they seem like a no brainer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billzcat1 View Post
My take is that you should balance what you spend vs the likelihood you'll need to depend on it. Do you need a $100 recovery strap you'll never use? There's no question the ARB recovery gear is good quality stuff but you'll be massively overpaying for things like shackles and a bag. And the likelihood you'll rig up that $100 snatch block with your come-a-long is pretty slim. Another thing to consider is that equipment gets damaged, lost, stolen. An ARB recovery bag is a prime target. And your $100 recovery strap can break just like the $20 one. I'd be a lot less upset at a $20 strap breaking than a $100 strap. And a lot less upset if it were stolen.

I would say start cheap and see if it meets your needs. If it doesn't, then you can upgrade. My wheeling/recovery bag has:
20' 20k recovery strap: $22 (use it all the time)
4 shackles (2 5/8, 1 3/4, 1 1-1/4" 20T monster) plus one 3/4" on my D-ring. $15ea for the smaller shackles, $20 for the biggun
5k mini-J hook $18 from a towing supplier
10k grab hook $28
6' tree strap $40
18k snatch block $25 (never needed it, glad I didn't spend too much on it)
MV50 air compressor $59, use it all the time over the last 3 years
Currie deflator $28, use it all the time
Winch remote
Screwdrivers
Snips
Air pressure gauge
Zipties
All of it comes in under $300 and that's with a ton more stuff that has all given me good use, some of which gets put to use every single time we go out. If my stuff got stolen, yes I'd be pissed but if I bought top-of-the-line equipment we'd be talking about a $1000 bag.

Now, I'm not a crazy hardcore wheeler, you can see my build thread to see where I go. I hit ORV areas and easy and medium trails. Not a bug mudder or strict rock-climber. Mostly tight rocky trails.
No doubt, it's a lot of stuff to carry along ...but ...I wouldn't carry it in my Jeep routinely. I have an idea to have the Power Puller broken down in one bag, the WASP broken down in another bag (and only used for non woods wheeling for the most part ...like the beach, and the rest of the recovery gear in another bag; finally, one day of course I may have a winch on the front bumper. I like the versatility of being able to daily drive the Jeep without any extra weight ...and being able to grab two to three bags and throw them in when I go wheeling. Usually when I wheel I don't leave the Jeep anyway, as far as theft goes. I also thought I'd get a combination lock/line to lock the main parts of the Power Puller and WASP onto one of the bed hooks or something.

Thanks for the input, I realize "less is more" at times and it is silly to spend a lot of dough on stuff you'll never use (the WASP kinda makes me sick but ...I feel like as soon as I wheel on the beach without it I'll find myself stuck) ....at least it's reasonable and not mega bucks like some of them. I noticed that pretty decent tow straps are inexpensive at Harbor Freight (and I have coupons). Maybe I should just forget about a snatch block for now and just see if I'll ever find myself wishing I had one. The MORE Power Puller's 6K rating is probably enough for most situations and there is some safety built in (handle bends at max load, I got an extra handle and handle extension, synthetic line that doesn't store energy, etc).

When I researched snatch blocks everyone was so high and mighty on the ARB 9000 ...as if it was pretty much the only choice. I think you have me thinking back to the basics ....maybe I should just use my own gloves, a heavy old gym bag, one good tree saver strap, two or more cheap (but heavy duty) tow straps from Harbor Freight ...and combine that with my Power Puller for most outings. I am ignorant about D-rings AND shackles ...are they "necessary" to properly "rig" things together like a tree saver to a tow strap? ...or is that overkill? I don't want to weld D-rings to my bumper, I already have perfect condition tow hooks on my OEM bumper and they seem awful beefy and well angled to me. I've read posts of some people's D-rings not working as well as the tow hooks would have (or not being as reliable).

....lol in other words, what do I "really" need shackles and D-rings for? Sorry for the ignorance but I've never used any of this stuff. Thanks for the education.
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2005 LJ, NSG-370 6-spd (close-ratio), 3.73's, three tops incl. custom Sunrider-Safari top, 38"x22" hardtop sunroof, OME 2.5", JKS 1.25 BL/1.0 MML, seats 2"^, 285/75/16 Duratracs, Ion 171's (16x8), Alpine CDE135-BT/KTP-445/Polk521Db/650Db, full soft/hard doors, Harley L.Stms, "I swear my Jeep is staying stock"
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Unread 09-15-2012, 10:48 AM   #6
shu2kill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 05Unlimited View Post
That link probably didn't work the way you intended. Since you mention the Smittybilt, do you think that's better than an ENGO 9000 (comparable)? To answer your question, it seems to me that the items in this package deal are other recovery items you'd want anyway (with or without a winch), so they seem like a no brainer.



No doubt, it's a lot of stuff to carry along ...but ...I wouldn't carry it in my Jeep routinely. I have an idea to have the Power Puller broken down in one bag, the WASP broken down in another bag (and only used for non woods wheeling for the most part ...like the beach, and the rest of the recovery gear in another bag; finally, one day of course I may have a winch on the front bumper. I like the versatility of being able to daily drive the Jeep without any extra weight ...and being able to grab two to three bags and throw them in when I go wheeling. Usually when I wheel I don't leave the Jeep anyway, as far as theft goes. I also thought I'd get a combination lock/line to lock the main parts of the Power Puller and WASP onto one of the bed hooks or something.

Thanks for the input, I realize "less is more" at times and it is silly to spend a lot of dough on stuff you'll never use (the WASP kinda makes me sick but ...I feel like as soon as I wheel on the beach without it I'll find myself stuck) ....at least it's reasonable and not mega bucks like some of them. I noticed that pretty decent tow straps are inexpensive at Harbor Freight (and I have coupons). Maybe I should just forget about a snatch block for now and just see if I'll ever find myself wishing I had one. The MORE Power Puller's 6K rating is probably enough for most situations and there is some safety built in (handle bends at max load, I got an extra handle and handle extension, synthetic line that doesn't store energy, etc).

When I researched snatch blocks everyone was so high and mighty on the ARB 9000 ...as if it was pretty much the only choice. I think you have me thinking back to the basics ....maybe I should just use my own gloves, a heavy old gym bag, one good tree saver strap, two or more cheap (but heavy duty) tow straps from Harbor Freight ...and combine that with my Power Puller for most outings. I am ignorant about D-rings AND shackles ...are they "necessary" to properly "rig" things together like a tree saver to a tow strap? ...or is that overkill? I don't want to weld D-rings to my bumper, I already have perfect condition tow hooks on my OEM bumper and they seem awful beefy and well angled to me. I've read posts of some people's D-rings not working as well as the tow hooks would have (or not being as reliable).

....lol in other words, what do I "really" need shackles and D-rings for? Sorry for the ignorance but I've never used any of this stuff. Thanks for the education.
oh, the link is working for me.. anyways its for a sotre that has the M8000 for $598....

now, all i have for recovery gear is a hi-lift, a Warn M8000, 3/4" shackles (2 of them), and 2 slings rated at 20,000 lbs i got for $25 each... my jeep has 4 D rings, 2 on the front bumper, 2 on the back, but i have only 1 shackle in the front and 1 in the back.... the front bumper also has 2 strap hooks to attach the sling to.... so far, i havnt had the need for any more equipment or gear yet... as long as the other jeeps have shackles or hooks, i can always winch them, or if there are trees to winch myself, i wrap the sling around them and attach the winch hook directly to the strap, or close the look with a shackle and attach the hook to it....

i am about to order this snatch block http://www.quadratec.com/products/92144_8008.htm

and a couple more shackles... most probably i wont use it for angle rigging, but for doubling the winch´s capacity and protect it a little better... i looked into snatch blocks before but they were pretty expensive, in the 60-100 range... i dont think i need one rated for 30,000 lbs when my winch is 8000 and the sling is only 20,000... so ill get the 18000, which, most probably wont be used much... i have been in a couple situations where a snatch block would be very helpful, thats why i want one now....

so, i dont think you need the bag of recovery equipment... i would say begin with the winch, strap, and a couple of shackles, and go from there, let your needs tell you what to buy, so you dont get things you dont need....
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Unread 09-15-2012, 10:50 AM   #7
shu2kill
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sorry, regarding the ERGO, i have never heard of that one, so i cant tell... some friends have the smittybilt and it is OK for the price... you may want to check the superwinch as well, it goes for the same 300.... i think the smittibilt with a snatch block is enough to begin with...
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Unread 09-15-2012, 11:14 AM   #8
jeepster93
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I pieced together my recovery bag.
Got the Warn snatch block, The ARB 10 foot tree strap, The ARB 30 foot snatch/pull strap. A 30 foot generic tow strap, a 50 foot Amsteel winch extension, 2 d rings, and winch remote, all in an athletic gear bag from big lots.
I got the good stuff as I use it.



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Unread 09-15-2012, 11:32 AM   #9
05Unlimited
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Since I have two perfectly good tow hooks and don't plan to ditch my stock from bumper, do I really need D-rings for rigging? I read something about "the less connection points the better" which makes sense (fewer potential points of failure). I guess in some instances you simply need a D-ring in order to be able to connect something period (as in not all things have hooks on each end. Example would be the tow strap that's extending the winch (or power puller) line, that somehow needs attached to a tree saver.

Is this why at least a couple D-rings that are plenty heavy are pretty essential? Sorry for the newb questions ...I think I'm answering them with my own questions.

I think I'm sticking with the stock tow hooks on the front and the stock recovery hook on the left rear. Some people say the cheapie snatch blocks like the 18K one come apart easy and aren't as friendly with synthetic line (I don't think it matters if they're new and not scarred up though).

What about the 3-ton (6K) rating of my More Power Puller? Is that really enough or should I get a snatchblock and tons of extension? My LJ's never going to be much over 4,200 even fully loaded. I just feel like one day I'll have it buried kinda deep and I'll get nervous about that 3-ton rating and will be wishing I at least had the $25 18K snatchblock. Extension is fairly cheap and you never know when you might need it anyway.
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2005 LJ, NSG-370 6-spd (close-ratio), 3.73's, three tops incl. custom Sunrider-Safari top, 38"x22" hardtop sunroof, OME 2.5", JKS 1.25 BL/1.0 MML, seats 2"^, 285/75/16 Duratracs, Ion 171's (16x8), Alpine CDE135-BT/KTP-445/Polk521Db/650Db, full soft/hard doors, Harley L.Stms, "I swear my Jeep is staying stock"
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Unread 09-15-2012, 11:41 AM   #10
jeepster93
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All my stuff is overrated for a jeep. I have a lot of...well safety isn't it, although that is part of it, there is the "stuck factor".
If you're pulling out of a big gooey mud hole, it will double the effective pulling weight perhaps more than double your pull weight. With under rated recovery gear, it may be a dangerous, long and expensive day.
My winch is rated the least, at 9,000 pounds, and I hope it will stall out before I reach that point of "will my stuff hold", or"is this safe".

I have found 2 d rings and all 3 different, well 4 with the extension rope, straps are useful.

It is hard to pull a stuck vehicle out of a stuck without a pull strap(20% stretch), but that stretch is why it can't be used to tow. The d rings connect it all. and not being able to reach that tree, 12 feet from your winch rope is a bummer.
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Unread 09-15-2012, 01:38 PM   #11
billzcat1
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Redmond, WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shu2kill View Post

i am about to order this snatch block http://www.quadratec.com/products/92144_8008.htm
That's the one I have (and haven't used). It seems decent. The bearings are smooth, but it comes ungreased. Be sure to grease it at the Zerk fitting before you use it if you want it to hold up at all.

As for D-rings vs tow hooks and "why do I need so many shackles?". Well, you never know what sort of arrangement you'll need to set up. 5/8" and 3/4" shackles seem to be the most popular sizes with enough strength to get you by. I forgot I also have a 1/2" in there because that was the largest pin I could fit through the towing eye of my old Audi that I had to flat-tow home 3 different times. The various hooks are in there because invariably I come across people who need to be pulled out in the snow and you know a 3/4" shackle is about as useful a screen door on a submarine when it comes to pulling on a passenger car.

Yes, the fewer connection points, the better. And there are ways to connect tow recovery straps that don't use any D-rings at all (which is the safest way). It would just suck to be in a situation where you need to hook things together to reach your anchor point and you're short one.

The giant 1-1/4" shackle has a 2" throat. I found that my tree saver (which has thick leather-wrapped ends) and winch hook didn't all fit into one 3/4" shackle. So my advice there is to practice using your stuff - at least play with it and put it all together to make sure it fits and work out the kinks like that before you are in a situation where you wind up SOL. Likewise... practice using that Power Puller thing to recover your Jeep over a cinder block, or pull it 20' up your driveway with the handbrake on. See if it still meets your needs.
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Unread 09-17-2012, 08:28 AM   #12
05Unlimited
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepster93 View Post
All my stuff is overrated for a jeep. I have a lot of...well safety isn't it, although that is part of it, there is the "stuck factor".
If you're pulling out of a big gooey mud hole, it will double the effective pulling weight perhaps more than double your pull weight. With under rated recovery gear, it may be a dangerous, long and expensive day.
My winch is rated the least, at 9,000 pounds, and I hope it will stall out before I reach that point of "will my stuff hold", or"is this safe".

I have found 2 d rings and all 3 different, well 4 with the extension rope, straps are useful.

It is hard to pull a stuck vehicle out of a stuck without a pull strap(20% stretch), but that stretch is why it can't be used to tow. The d rings connect it all. and not being able to reach that tree, 12 feet from your winch rope is a bummer.
No doubt. I think I need a snatch block and lots of extension like I was originally thinking, but maybe the 18K ARB is plenty ...along with Harbor Freight tow straps (wonder if they stretch though). In a way I don't like the idea of stretch because it stores energy and when it breaks .....BAM! Sounds like I should at least have two D rings on board ...don't really understand what you meant by "2 d rings and all 3 different ...."

Quote:
Originally Posted by billzcat1 View Post
That's the one I have (and haven't used). It seems decent. The bearings are smooth, but it comes ungreased. Be sure to grease it at the Zerk fitting before you use it if you want it to hold up at all.

As for D-rings vs tow hooks and "why do I need so many shackles?". Well, you never know what sort of arrangement you'll need to set up. 5/8" and 3/4" shackles seem to be the most popular sizes with enough strength to get you by. I forgot I also have a 1/2" in there because that was the largest pin I could fit through the towing eye of my old Audi that I had to flat-tow home 3 different times. The various hooks are in there because invariably I come across people who need to be pulled out in the snow and you know a 3/4" shackle is about as useful a screen door on a submarine when it comes to pulling on a passenger car.

Yes, the fewer connection points, the better. And there are ways to connect tow recovery straps that don't use any D-rings at all (which is the safest way). It would just suck to be in a situation where you need to hook things together to reach your anchor point and you're short one.

The giant 1-1/4" shackle has a 2" throat. I found that my tree saver (which has thick leather-wrapped ends) and winch hook didn't all fit into one 3/4" shackle. So my advice there is to practice using your stuff - at least play with it and put it all together to make sure it fits and work out the kinks like that before you are in a situation where you wind up SOL. Likewise... practice using that Power Puller thing to recover your Jeep over a cinder block, or pull it 20' up your driveway with the handbrake on. See if it still meets your needs.
This is absolutely my plan ...practice using the equipment beforehand.
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2005 LJ, NSG-370 6-spd (close-ratio), 3.73's, three tops incl. custom Sunrider-Safari top, 38"x22" hardtop sunroof, OME 2.5", JKS 1.25 BL/1.0 MML, seats 2"^, 285/75/16 Duratracs, Ion 171's (16x8), Alpine CDE135-BT/KTP-445/Polk521Db/650Db, full soft/hard doors, Harley L.Stms, "I swear my Jeep is staying stock"
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