Need answer to a turning over issue! - JeepForum.com
 
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post #1 of 8 Old 04-17-2014, 08:27 AM Thread Starter
randomprokid
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Need answer to a turning over issue!

So I've been meaning to post this thread for a long time now but school and work have forbidden me to do so. I basically have an issue with my jeep and it's not turning over. I've tried describing the issue to countless people but I feel like they all don't know what they are talking about because I've gotten a billion different answers. I'm going to list the issues and the symptoms below and I pray someone might have a relatively straight forward answer.

So basically, it started probably in october a little after I first got my jeep. Now up until now I have always been able to start my jeep ( I'm pretty sure I still can now but it's not warm enough out. ) So heres the issue, when it's cold, like really cold, my jeep would produce this tapping noise that sounded like it was coming from the relay box, couldn't exactly locate the source of it but thats my guess and the guess of the guy who has been trying to help me as much as he can. He doesn't have a lot of time unfortunately but oh well. So it's a very rapid ticking/tapping noise. My jeep will NOT turn over while this noise is going on. I will sit there until it stops and I know it's about to stop because it will steadily lose it's tempo and slow down. It eventually starts tapping so slow that the check engine light actually flickers with the tapping until the tapping altogether stops. Then what happens is the noise stops, in the jeep somewhere ( I don't know where ) I hear a 2 second *Buzz* and then right after that a *Click!*. That noise is good to me because that means my jeep is about to start. Not quite yet though! Then I'll try turning over again but now it will sound and act like the engine is starting but then it'll slowly die out and I'll have to turn the key back wait for the *Buzz* *Click!* noise again. Each time I try turning over it's closer and closer even to the point where I can start driving the jeep but then it'll die while I'm getting ready to pull away. One more time and I can fire it up and then I finally can go with no issue. If I turn off the jeep and try turning it back on it'll instantly fire up. If I wait 15-20minutes the wait will start all over again. Tapping then waiting for buzz click then waiting for the jeep to actually start.

The issue is interesting because it seems temperature dependent. When the issue first started I only worried if it was about 20 and under because it would take time to start. If it was about 30 degrees my jeep would fire right up with literally no wait time. But then it got worse and I started having to wait at 40 degrees and 50 and 60 and not even the other day I was still waiting for this tapping to go away with the whole process at 70 degrees. But of course this result of the process was progressing over months time. But even worse now I missed my class today because I thought. "Hey....I'll just wait ten minutes and then my jeep will start, it's 40 degrees right?" No...Wrong, now when I went out to try and start it, the tapping did indeed begin so I felt no worries. But what has never happened before and now has me more worried then anything is that in the middle of the tapping it just went away and stopped and my jeep just absolutely refused to turn over whatsoever.

Probably the closest reasonable answer I've heard of is I guess there is a mechanism in the starter that is trying to clamp constantly (Tapping noise) but I have no idea if thats right or wrong. I've been told by the guy who gave me the jeep it's not the starter, he has done a lot of work on cars so I trust him, but he does not know the issue 100%. He suggested maybe it's the, and excuse me please I don't know the name of the part, but it's a electro mechanical device that he thinks is not getting enough electricity right away at the contacts. I suppose it makes some sort of sense seeing as it is a temperature dependent issue, but even he said thats just a suggestion to maybe see if it fixes it.

So if anyone can maybe pick up where my friends or I left off I would seriously appreciate trying to help solve this mystery. Thanks guys!

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post #2 of 8 Old 04-18-2014, 04:39 AM
Torquemonster1
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Have your battery tested! Also check all battery connections. The tapping you are hearing is probably the starter solenoid kicking in and out.
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post #3 of 8 Old 04-18-2014, 06:16 AM
wilson1010
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The starter motor has a rotor with a commutator and brushes. The commutator gets corroded and the brushes will not make good electrical contact. Temperature, crank position, humidity all affect this. So anecdotal fact patterns are not that helpful.

If you get under the Jeep and whack the starter with a serious hammer (not your little claw hammer) it will start. Seriously, hit it hard. But, at the end of the day you need a rebuilt starter.

Try the whack the starter method and if it works, problem solved.

03 Rubicon; 99 xj with too much stuff to list; Unimog 406 (gone)
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post #4 of 8 Old 04-18-2014, 06:17 AM
jp360cj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torquemonster1 View Post
Have your battery tested! Also check all battery connections. The tapping you are hearing is probably the starter solenoid kicking in and out.
This^^ The solenoid is kicking in & out because there is not enough power getting to it. It's either a bad/loose connection or a bad battery. Since its temp dependant, I'm betting on battery. Have it tested at an auto parts store.

Also, I would not trust the people who have tried to help you out this to work on anything at all. Anyone I know who works on cars in the least bit knows that a solenoid clicking is most likely a bad battery.

77 CJ-7- AMC 360, Edelbrock cam, MC2100, Fenderwells, CJ T18/D20, Chevy D44/EB 9" rear, Trutrac f/r, 4.11, SOA, 1.25 lift shackles, 35x12.50 BFG KM2s, Shackle Reversal
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post #5 of 8 Old 04-18-2014, 07:02 AM
jski701
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I had a problem starting a few weeks ago, and thought the relay was bad, because of the clicking under the dash. Don't know if that's the same noise you're hearing but might be an electrical component to check. Before I got the jeep, the PO had some starting issues also. Over the coarse of a year or so she had to have the positive cable and then the negative cable replaced, which both went bad and dropped voltage causing a bad battery type symptom. Lucky for me she had the battery replaced too. It's not that uncommon for a +/- cable to have to be replaced and might be worth checking.

My recent issue was different and isn't related but worth mentioning because of the amount of troubleshooting. Drop-off at the bus stop and went to work, started each time with no issue, got in to go home at the end of the day and nothing.....nada.....completely dead.. Tried a jump pack and nothing so I left it there. Started checking things the next day and the fuzes were all good started going through the electrical, and power to the starter directly started it right up. Thought process was that the ignition switch was bad in the column. Bought a new one and while replacing it, found that the ignition switch actuator had broken during the last start up.
The ignition switch was 50$ (returned it) and the actuator was about 25$.
I know this isn't your problem but wanted to put up a few other similar problems that could go wrong and how easy a fix or simple of a problem that could leave you stranded.
Good luck

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post #6 of 8 Old 04-18-2014, 07:15 AM Thread Starter
randomprokid
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Well it seems the issue might just be a voltage drop in the cable? I know it's not an issue directly related to the battery, I already put a brand new battery in at first so I know it's not that. From what I'm reading I have a feeling the cables just maybe need to be replaced.
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post #7 of 8 Old 04-18-2014, 08:24 AM
GilaMtnJeep
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If you have replaced the battery next would be to check the clamps and cables. Make sure the clamps are clean and tight both to the battery and where the cable connects to the clamp. Any corrosion there is your enemy. Also check the other ends, they must be clean and tight.

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post #8 of 8 Old 04-19-2014, 06:05 PM
Torquemonster1
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Check the small cable that goes to the starter at the starter! I have seen several guys buy new starters only to find a bad connection when they pulled the starter. So, check connections FIRST!
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