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Unread 09-25-2013, 05:42 PM   #916
Deuskid
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There is a DIY 3 axis hitch that looks pretty simple. Designed/built by gspup.

You can see pics of it in this thread: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f37/t...8/index11.html

Following are my posts asking about it but no joy w/ responses from G Beasley [OP of the thread] nor did gspup reply to my PM asking him about it.

Do you guys think this hitch might have potential? Not as elegant as JScherb's 3 axis but certainly simpler.

I'm trying to figure out the materials and dimensions that were used. gspup has a thread where it was introduced but it doesn't give any details either.

What do you guys think?

thanks

Post 141

Quote:
Originally Posted by G Beasley
Occams Razor came to mind today as I looked at the hitch designs I decided to make a gspup style hitch as I love the simplicity and function of it . Once I made that decision all that was left was to go get some steel. I managed to get a few holes drilled , but that was about it for the afternoon.
This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image.

This is the gspup hitch . And below is the start to my version of it .

This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image.

More hitch work tomorrow , and an axle in the afternoon . Hopefully it will be a good productive day .
I like the simplicity of this design.

`-`-`-`-`- above was a quote and then my post:

Would like to learn more about the design and building of it. What are its dimensions and materials? What are the steps of fabrication?

Also, those who have used it for towing, has it proved to be an effective 3 axis hitch?

Thanks in advance,

John

Post 145


Quote:
Originally Posted by G Beasley
Occams Razor came to mind today as I looked at the hitch designs I decided to make a gspup style hitch as I love the simplicity and function of it . Once I made that decision all that was left was to go get some steel. I managed to get a few holes drilled , but that was about it for the afternoon.
This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image.

This is the gspup hitch . And below is the start to my version of it .

This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image.

More hitch work tomorrow , and an axle in the afternoon . Hopefully it will be a good productive day .

`-`-`-`-`-`-`-` above is the quote and my post:

it looks like you fabbed 2 solid center pieces in the second picture but the hitch only requires one? Is that true or am I missing something?

Also, is the square tubing 2" outside diameter with 1/4" walls?

Thanks,

john

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Unread 09-26-2013, 06:16 AM   #917
armyRN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armyRN View Post
Ok; for me trailers are for hauling camping gear. I've found The Sportsman's Guide is a good place to get camping gear; I've got quite a few things from them (and no - I've got no connection other than I buy stuff from them). They have camping gear, outdoor clothing, gun-stuff (I've ordered ammo from them for my 45-70 guide gun), lots of military surplus, and truck/ATV stuff to include towing stuff. Anyways, they've got free shipping this weekend with no minimum order. Check them out to get ready for your next adventure:

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/m...k383tsgmain&em

Anyways - back to trailer stuff. I ordered an NCR2051 NATO hitch yesterday from England (they don't sell them in the states best as I can tell or could find). It's a flush mounted pintle hitch (like what you can buy in the states all day long), but you can pull a pin at the base and it will allow the hitch to rotate 360 degrees. It'll cost just over $200 for the hitch with shipping. I know there are other multi-axis hitches out there for sale, and I know jscherb has his $50.00 do-it-yourself multi-axis hitch; I'm just tossing another option out there. I just like pintle hitches - easy to connect and disconnect the trailer, and they just look damn cool mounted to the back of a Jeep. I've had good luck using a pintle hitch with my trailer - even a fixed pintle hitch/lunette ring set-up has a much better range of motion compared to a regular ball hitch/coupler set-up.

NATO Hitch: http://www.paddockspares.com/nrc2051...tow-hitch.html

ROM specs ball coupler vs. pintle/lunette ring: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f27/m...l#post13293141

I'll post pictures of the new set-up when I get home. I'm hoping the new hitch's bolt pattern matches what's on the adapter plate now (pictured below). I guess this picture also shows how the 2" receiver adapter thing and lunette ring extends the trailer's tongue a bit too.
I just got a notice of shipping charges - it was going to bring the total to just over $300; a little more than I am willing to spend. Actually, they fat-fingered their original price quote to me. So I cancelled the order - back to square one with this NATO hitch thing. It's too bad.
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Unread 09-26-2013, 11:12 PM   #918
armyRN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuskid View Post
There is a DIY 3 axis hitch that looks pretty simple. Designed/built by gspup.

You can see pics of it in this thread: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f37/t...8/index11.html

Following are my posts asking about it but no joy w/ responses from G Beasley [OP of the thread] nor did gspup reply to my PM asking him about it.

Do you guys think this hitch might have potential? Not as elegant as JScherb's 3 axis but certainly simpler.

I'm trying to figure out the materials and dimensions that were used. gspup has a thread where it was introduced but it doesn't give any details either.

What do you guys think?

thanks

Post 141

Quote:
Originally Posted by G Beasley
Occams Razor came to mind today as I looked at the hitch designs I decided to make a gspup style hitch as I love the simplicity and function of it . Once I made that decision all that was left was to go get some steel. I managed to get a few holes drilled , but that was about it for the afternoon.
This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image.

This is the gspup hitch . And below is the start to my version of it .

This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image.

More hitch work tomorrow , and an axle in the afternoon . Hopefully it will be a good productive day .
I like the simplicity of this design.

`-`-`-`-`- above was a quote and then my post:

Would like to learn more about the design and building of it. What are its dimensions and materials? What are the steps of fabrication?

Also, those who have used it for towing, has it proved to be an effective 3 axis hitch?

Thanks in advance,

John

Post 145

Quote:
Originally Posted by G Beasley
Occams Razor came to mind today as I looked at the hitch designs I decided to make a gspup style hitch as I love the simplicity and function of it . Once I made that decision all that was left was to go get some steel. I managed to get a few holes drilled , but that was about it for the afternoon.
This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image.

This is the gspup hitch . And below is the start to my version of it .

This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image.

More hitch work tomorrow , and an axle in the afternoon . Hopefully it will be a good productive day .

`-`-`-`-`-`-`-` above is the quote and my post:

it looks like you fabbed 2 solid center pieces in the second picture but the hitch only requires one? Is that true or am I missing something?

Also, is the square tubing 2" outside diameter with 1/4" walls?

Thanks,

john
I understand the design and principle involved; I just don't know how it would work in real life. Seems like there would be a lot of stress and friction on the tabs with the rectangle block in the middle when there was weight on the tongue (which would be on the pivot points). But then again, I'm not an engineer. jscherb?
gspup-hitch.jpg

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Unread 09-27-2013, 06:45 AM   #919
jscherb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armyRN View Post
I understand the design and principle involved; I just don't know how it would work in real life. Seems like there would be a lot of stress and friction on the tabs with the rectangle block in the middle when there was weight on the tongue (which would be on the pivot points). But then again, I'm not an engineer. jscherb?
There would be stress on the tabs, but if they're an appropriate thickness and either welded properly or better yet cut directly out of a single piece of square tubing, I wouldn't worry too much about them.

I would be concerned about how the parts are held together with the bolts. Here's what I see in the photo:



It's a bolt through holes in the tabs and a hole in the center block. There is nothing to relieve rotational stress on the nut or prevent it from loosening, so it will loosen and fall off at some point.

A better way to do it would be to add washers for some relief from the rotational stress, and absolutely the nut must be captive in some way, probably easiest would be a cotter pin similar to how an axle nut is secured:



Done as in the above photo, the nut would be tightened just to the point of slight friction on the joint, just like a trailer axle nut, to allow rotation of the parts.

Even better would be to do the washers and the cotter pin, but put a sleeve through the hole that the bolt could also go through. The sleeve would be slightly longer than the outside dimension across the tabs, so the bolt could be snugged down against the sleeve without binding against the tabs, thus providing very free motion. The sleeves would also greatly reduce wear on the bolts, reducing the possibility that they might wear enough to break.



All of this applies equally well to the center bolt,which provides rotation around the axis of the receiver. I do see a washer there but all towing force is going to be working at unscrewing the nut that must be on the other end of that bolt. This one really needs a sleeve and a cotter pin. I wonder how they would get the cotter pin in there since the nut must be inside the receiver?



Without at least all of the nuts being captive with something like cotter pins, this design is unsafe. Movement of the coupler will work to loosen the nuts.

Other than that, the basic design would work, although to uncouple the trailer you'd have to pull the shaft out of your receiver (or unbolt one of the joints?). Might sometimes be a challenge to recouple, you have to slide the coupler into your receiver rather than just backing under the trailer coupler and dropping it in place on the receiver side of the coupler.
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Unread 09-27-2013, 09:27 AM   #920
Deuskid
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Wow,

What a great eval Jeff! Thank you. You've convinced me to either build your DYI or buy a 3 axis hitch.

I hope you don't mind but I posted your thoughts in the other thread [the OP had considered your design [see page 2 of his thread] before settling on gspup approach] because of the potential safety issues you cite.

John
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Unread 09-27-2013, 09:56 AM   #921
NMBruce
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jscherb View Post
There would be stress on the tabs, but if they're an appropriate thickness and either welded properly or better yet cut directly out of a single piece of square tubing, I wouldn't worry too much about them.

I would be concerned about how the parts are held together with the bolts. Here's what I see in the photo:



It's a bolt through holes in the tabs and a hole in the center block. There is nothing to relieve rotational stress on the nut or prevent it from loosening, so it will loosen and fall off at some point.

A better way to do it would be to add washers for some relief from the rotational stress, and absolutely the nut must be captive in some way, probably easiest would be a cotter pin similar to how an axle nut is secured:



Done as in the above photo, the nut would be tightened just to the point of slight friction on the joint, just like a trailer axle nut, to allow rotation of the parts.

Even better would be to do the washers and the cotter pin, but put a sleeve through the hole that the bolt could also go through. The sleeve would be slightly longer than the outside dimension across the tabs, so the bolt could be snugged down against the sleeve without binding against the tabs, thus providing very free motion. The sleeves would also greatly reduce wear on the bolts, reducing the possibility that they might wear enough to break.



All of this applies equally well to the center bolt,which provides rotation around the axis of the receiver. I do see a washer there but all towing force is going to be working at unscrewing the nut that must be on the other end of that bolt. This one really needs a sleeve and a cotter pin. I wonder how they would get the cotter pin in there since the nut must be inside the receiver?



Without at least all of the nuts being captive with something like cotter pins, this design is unsafe. Movement of the coupler will work to loosen the nuts.

Other than that, the basic design would work, although to uncouple the trailer you'd have to pull the shaft out of your receiver (or unbolt one of the joints?). Might sometimes be a challenge to recouple, you have to slide the coupler into your receiver rather than just backing under the trailer coupler and dropping it in place on the receiver side of the coupler.
great information THANKS
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Unread 09-27-2013, 11:41 AM   #922
armyRN
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Thanks Jeff. I knew you'd be able to give it a thorough evaluation. No matter how we build our trailers or hitches, safety has to be a number one priority.
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Unread 09-27-2013, 12:14 PM   #923
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I was thinking washers and a simple tac weld on the nut would suffice. If dis-assembly is required, cut the bolt off, theyre cheap. Would also deter theft, as now even with a locking hitch pin they could just un do the bolts...although theyd have to be pretty crafty to attach it to their vehicle LOL

Also, i would certainly use grade 8 bolts, the pic above has grade 5 in it.
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Unread 10-05-2013, 09:58 PM   #924
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If you haven't been following along with this person's trailer build, I suggest you check it out. It's a great example of what can be done with mail order parts and minimal fabrication. It's based on using the 4' "black" trailer frame as a starting point as opposed to the "red" (or Harbor Freight) 4' trailer. Plus he discusses some other possibilities for these trailers, such as using Jeep bumperettes on the rear to help support the weight of a spare tire mounted on the rear along with a factory Jeep spare tire carrier.

It's a very nice write-up including pictures.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f27/a...build-1558519/
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Unread 10-06-2013, 07:09 AM   #925
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I try to keep my trailer modifications simple and bolt-on with readily purchased "stuff" and keep the welding to a minimum.

I've been wanting to mount a cooler on the trailer tongue so it frees up more room inside the trailer box. I ordered one of these cargo carriers from The Sportsman's Guide (free shipping this weekend). I'll shorten it from 60" to somewhere around 36 - 38" and will mount it up flush against the trailer box frame. I need to make sure it won't hit the Jeep when the trailer is turned 90 degrees to the Jeep.

Doing this will require me to move the spare tire to the rear (I'll just swap out the front and rear panel). We'll see how it turns out. And of course I'll document the process.
cargo-carrier.jpg

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Unread 10-07-2013, 04:51 PM   #926
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armyRN View Post
I try to keep my trailer modifications simple and bolt-on with readily purchased "stuff" and keep the welding to a minimum.

I've been wanting to mount a cooler on the trailer tongue so it frees up more room inside the trailer box. I ordered one of these cargo carriers from The Sportsman's Guide (free shipping this weekend). I'll shorten it from 60" to somewhere around 36 - 38" and will mount it up flush against the trailer box frame. I need to make sure it won't hit the Jeep when the trailer is turned 90 degrees to the Jeep.

Doing this will require me to move the spare tire to the rear (I'll just swap out the front and rear panel). We'll see how it turns out. And of course I'll document the process.
I've been considering something similar, but would likely need to lengthen the tongue quite a lot. As I recall, it extends only about 29" from the front of the trailer box. The rear of the Jeep tub to the ball is probably another 14" or so. With the Jeep's swing gate at around 40", it just barely clears the trailer when opened.

I do intend to lengthen the tongue when I change it to a receiver tube, but I'm not sure I want to extend it 16" or more, which may be about what it takes to have a cooler there. How long is the tongue on your "black" trailer?
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Unread 10-07-2013, 04:57 PM   #927
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so how is the 3 axis type coupling better or more advantages than a pintle hitch and lunette ring (towing eye)? being an old soldier, my hitches are of the pintle/lunette type as i know how heavy duty they are and how well they articulate off road.
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Unread 10-07-2013, 05:49 PM   #928
ReDinTX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strvger01 View Post
so how is the 3 axis type coupling better or more advantages than a pintle hitch and lunette ring (towing eye)? being an old soldier, my hitches are of the pintle/lunette type as i know how heavy duty they are and how well they articulate off road.
the "twisting" angle is better for lack of a better word. IMHO unless youre going for some very serious off roading with massive articulation, the pintle and lunette ring will work just fine. thats the route im planning on going as well.

in one of the trailer threads im following someone did a little write up and measured the angles of articulation for all 3 hitch types. Wasnt that big of a difference between the 3-axis and pintle, but HUGE between regular ball and the other 2, obviously.
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Unread 10-07-2013, 07:31 PM   #929
Deuskid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReDinTX View Post
the "twisting" angle is better for lack of a better word. IMHO unless youre going for some very serious off roading with massive articulation, the pintle and lunette ring will work just fine. thats the route im planning on going as well.

in one of the trailer threads im following someone did a little write up and measured the angles of articulation for all 3 hitch types. Wasnt that big of a difference between the 3-axis and pintle, but HUGE between regular ball and the other 2, obviously.
So, if the 3 axis is better than pintle/lunette why would you go w/ that which isn't as good?

Not trying to be contrary, only wondering why not go w/ the best option?

Thanks,

John
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Unread 10-07-2013, 08:29 PM   #930
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I modified my trailer by reversing the axle so it sits a little more forward. Then took two six foot angle irons and ran them the length of the trailer. Then mounted the tongue to the front frame rail and angle irons. Then used Jscherb's idea on the harbor frieght at rack sideways for a cooler rack. The decking for my trailer is trex decking to avoid painting and maintenance. Cheers.
image-1851906511.jpg

image-947348890.jpg

image-3042351654.jpg

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