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Go Back JeepForum.com > General Technical Discussions > General Jeep & Off-Road Equipment > Max. Flex vs. Useful Flex and The Anti-rock

Alloy usa heavy duty ball joint kitsNEW!! HMF 50"-52" light bar mounting brackets!! ZONE 4.25" combo lift for TJ available at Rockridge4w

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Unread 08-17-2005, 09:56 PM   #16
RowdyMoose
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has anyone used the Tera setup? And someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but when you flip it to trail, it is just like being disconnected right?

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Unread 09-22-2005, 01:16 PM   #17
crgrissom
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Just updating the thread to add my experiences so far...

I put a Currie Antirock on my Jeep a few weeks ago and am very pleased with it. I was a little worried about the "softer" sway bar for onroad driving since my Jeep is my daily driver, but as it turns out, the additional sway is very minimal and very predictable. After driving with it for a little while now, I don't even notice it any more at all. I drive the same as always (and I would describe myself as "constrained aggressive"). I'm probably subconsciously watching it more in the corners expectiing it to be less flat, but I surely don't even think about it. I'd say for anyone who would like to try the Antirock for all the reasons described in the posts above, go for it.

As soon as i had it installed, I drove it onto a bank to see how it worked, and in the pictures below my driver's side front and my passenger side rear are right up against the bumpstops, and you can see how the front and rear are really well balanced in terms of splitting the flex. BTW, this is on the middle setting for the links on the arms. (Yeah, I know the pictures show how puny my 31's look...I'll get the 33's eventually...)





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Unread 09-22-2005, 02:19 PM   #18
RowdyMoose
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Hope this isn't offtopic, but I've got the Anti-rock kit installed and I can't wait to use it! I just wish I had a functioning rear axle!

I'll post some pics when I get to "flexing".

EDIT: I guess I should pay more attention to the previous posts...the last one before the one with pics was mine too, and I was looking back at what I said and was thinking "must be a Newb".

That's what I love about this forum...it's soooo friggin easy to learn about new stuff, and get USEFUL opinions to newbie type questions quickly without getting flamed! Thanks for the help guys. This thread was pretty much the reason that I went with the Anti-rock. And I'm glad I decided to spend a little extra up front instead of going with the disco's and then later upgrading to the Anti-Rock kit. (Although as I mentioned above, I've yet to put 1 mile on it yet).
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Unread 09-22-2005, 04:30 PM   #19
lupinsea
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Slight Update and Response to Specific Questions
The Teraflex S/T Swaybar system is indeed a fancy disconnect system that costs as much as an Anti-rock. Once disconnected you get all of the benefits and drawbacks of a typical swaybar disconnect at 2 - 3 times the cost (but more convenience).

I did finally see ONE Jeep in the last year that had the Teraflex S/T system. Curious, I decided to ask the owner how he liked it. He used to run the Anti-rock system and decided to try the Teraflex offering. After running it for less than 2 months he can't wait to switch back to the Anti-rock. The cross-member inserts weren't holding up and were getting loose and the Jeep didn't handle as well off-road as it did with the Anti-rock.

While the Anti-rock isn't super common up here in the NW where I live I have seen 6 or 7 other rigs running them. All of whom had owners that loved the things.

I don't mean to plug the Anti-rock . . . but it's good.

However, there are better options on the market and I would rate them as follows from best to worse. All have their drawbacks but all, also, aid in increasing flex and articulation.

1. ORO's Sway-Loc - $550
This is the ultimate swaybar system for the TJs. With it you get the best of both world as it's two sway-bars in one. There is a thinner inner shaft that acts like the Anti-rock for trail use. But when you engage the outershaft the unit reacts like a stock swaybar to resist body roll. On top of all this the thing has an air-actuated solenoid so if you have OBA you can engage and disengage at the flick of a switch while still driving the rig. The draw back is the price and so far there is not a manually operated set up. So unless you have OBA (highly desireable in itself) it may prove tricky to engage and disengage the system.

2. Currie's Anti-rock Swaybar - $280
Great off-road swaybar that works in conjunction with the rear swaybar to balance the chassis between front and rear axles. Due to this balance there's a traction benefit realized that goes beyond simply having more flex. It has 5 different settings on the control arms and once set is brainless to operate and requires no intervention, just roll on and roll off the trail. The draw back to this is a noticeable increase in body roll on-road. However, the swaybar does work and provides for safe and predictable road handling that you quickly get acclimated to. Also, this swaybar, like the Sway-loc would limit RTI scores but in the real world the 4% loss of max flex is far far outweighed by all the control, traction, and handling benefits this unit provides. The Anti-rock is a creat combination between ease of use, articulation, chassis control, traction, and cost-for-benefit.

3. Standard Quick Disconnect System - $100 - $130
These include such quick disconnects as the JKS Quicker Disconnects, the Teraflex standard quick disconnects, the RE Gen II discos, and the like. They provide the maximum amount of flex but offer no other benefits such as the two examples above. Easy to install and often adjutable these provide a reasonably quick way of disconnecting the swaybar for offroad travel: pull pins and tuck the swaybar up out of the way. It does require you to get out of the Jeep to both disconnec and reconnect. The draw backs to these units are that there's no additional benefits they offer besides loads of flexibility. Also, it is often difficult to re-connect or re-align the end links with the pins, especially if the Jeep is on un-even terrain or the suspension covered with mud. It may be necessary to rock the Jeep back and forth to line up.

4. Teraflex S/T Swaybar System - $300
This system is basically a slick swaybar disconnect this is engaged and disengaged at the twist of a knob. Like the other disconnect systems is provides a lot of articulation but at the cost of no other handling and chassis control benefits. The convenience factore of this disconnect system far exceeds the standard discos but at a heft cost of 2 - 3 times more expensive. For this reason it ranked below the standard discos. Draw backs include price for convenience trade off and that for such it offers nothing beyond the standard discos.

5. Home-made Disconnects - $5-10
These are typically made up of a collection of hardware from the local home improvement store. The most common is a 7/16" clevis pin with some washers and a quick pin. More sophisticated setups use a very coarse thread 7/16" bolt with a wing nut, washers, and drilled hole with quick-pin used to keep the wing nut from backing out. When disconnected this provides the same benefits as the standard quick discos or the Teraflex system. However, the draw backs seem to be durability. Often there is some loose tolerances with the off-the-shelf hardware which causes wear over time. They can also be more difficult and cumbersum to re-connect after trail use. . . but then again, they're $5-10.
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Last edited by lupinsea; 01-27-2006 at 02:54 PM..
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Unread 12-29-2005, 10:56 PM   #20
Rubie Tuesday
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To answer your questions on the Tera S/T-

I run it/ own it, and I hate it!

It squeaks, inverts(yes, my kit has alot of flex), and can be extremely hard to turn the knob at times, let alone the fact that it is overpriced in my opinion! Stick with regular disconnects or try the AR, which I have NO experience with...
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Unread 12-30-2005, 11:31 AM   #21
jayr
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Anti-Rock and lift size

I read with great interest the in-depth installs and reviews here of the Anti-rock as I would love to put it on my rig. I hesitate though as I read lupinsea's install mod where he had problems with endlink length due to his lift setup. Well I am also planning on a 1" BL and will then run into the same problem which I'd like to avoid. Also I dont have access to a machine shop like lupinsea does. I have emailed Currie about this buit haven't heard back yet.

So my question is for all who may know the answer - Should I upgrade to a RE 3.5 std lift now and avoid the potential anti-rock endlink issue or just go for it with my current setup plus a 1" BL and hope it fits OK?

Or should I put in the 1" BL and just buy discos?
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Unread 12-30-2005, 04:56 PM   #22
lupinsea
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I didn't have access, perse, to a machine shop but there was one in town that I dealth with to have the end links machined.

Jracela, if you WANT to go to the RE 3.5" lift then wait on the Anti-rock. It cost me an extra $50 total to have the machine shop do a rush order on the thread cutting for me. Expensive? Maybe, but then I want to stay at a 2" lift. If you'll eventually be going to 3.5" of lift, might as well just wait on the Anti-rock and then you don't need to expend the funds to get machined endlines and can just use the stock Currie endlines with the new lift. However, if the new lift is a year off consider getting the links sooner.
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Unread 03-09-2006, 10:25 AM   #23
300bhp/ton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lupinsea



Impressive, but how much effective force is on
the tire if the spring unseats from the perch?

Sometimes you'll see pictures of Jeeps so flexed out that the springs actually have no load on them and in fact may drop down from the upper spring perch. This is were we get into the idea of "useful flex." When a tire can droop so much that the spring unseats there isn't much weight on the tire. Without the weight there won't be much taction from the drooped tire. In this situation one has to ask what is the practical difference between this and having a tire lifted in the air from a traction stand point?
Nice write up, although I’m not sure I follow this part.

Surly if the spring has become unseated then it is due to the wheel having more droop then the spring length.

But there would still be weight on the wheel, first off you have the weight of the rim, tyre and hub assembly which is a fairly hefty amount to begin with. But more importantly due to the workings of a live axle if one side is pushed UP then the same force is pushed DOWN on the other wheel.

It’s like if you take a pen and hold it in the middle with your forefinger and thumb, with you other hand if you push UP on one side of the pen it will force the other DOWN.

Land Rover suspension setups having been using specially designed “dislocation cones” to allow the spring to safely drop from the upper perch and then safely return again for many years now.

Dislocation cones:




Some designs get more extreme:



But they do allow it to do this:



(you’ll have to click the picture links unless someone wants to “QUOTE” my post )

Unless my physics is all to shot I would have thought the same principles would apply to Jeep suspension setups. I can certainly see the benefits of the AR setup as it will allow greater articulation than with a standard setup, yet better handling compared to having them removed completely. And the benefit of not having to disconnect or reconnect anything each time you go off road.
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Unread 03-09-2006, 10:46 AM   #24
crgrissom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 300bhp/ton
...But more importantly due to the workings of a live axle if one side is pushed UP then the same force is pushed DOWN on the other wheel.

It’s like if you take a pen and hold it in the middle with your forefinger and thumb, with you other hand if you push UP on one side of the pen it will force the other DOWN.
Well, your pen example does not apply because you have a fulcrum in the middle (fingers) where in the axle case the fulcrum is at the spring perch on the compressed side. So, the downward force you are expecting to be equal to the upward force is much smaller than you are thinking, because of he very short lever arm between the wheel and the spring perch.

So, basically, the only meaningful downward force is the weight of the wheel and the end of the axle, and I think the point remains that that is not much help to traction, in the case of an open differential.

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Unread 03-09-2006, 10:56 AM   #25
ErikJordan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 300bhp/ton
Nice write up, although I’m not sure I follow this part.

Surly if the spring has become unseated then it is due to the wheel having more droop then the spring length.

But there would still be weight on the wheel, first off you have the weight of the rim, tyre and hub assembly which is a fairly hefty amount to begin with. But more importantly due to the workings of a live axle if one side is pushed UP then the same force is pushed DOWN on the other wheel.

It’s like if you take a pen and hold it in the middle with your forefinger and thumb, with you other hand if you push UP on one side of the pen it will force the other DOWN.

Land Rover suspension setups having been using specially designed “dislocation cones” to allow the spring to safely drop from the upper perch and then safely return again for many years now.

Dislocation cones:




Some designs get more extreme:



But they do allow it to do this:



(you’ll have to click the picture links unless someone wants to “QUOTE” my post )

Unless my physics is all to shot I would have thought the same principles would apply to Jeep suspension setups. I can certainly see the benefits of the AR setup as it will allow greater articulation than with a standard setup, yet better handling compared to having them removed completely. And the benefit of not having to disconnect or reconnect anything each time you go off road.

here you go.
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Unread 05-21-2006, 09:20 AM   #26
ps3tv
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One thing that no one has mentioned thus far is that all of the benefits of a front Anti-rock swaybar can be duplicated in a rear Anti-rock swaybar. And it is when you have an Anti-rock on both ends that you really start to see the improvement. You can then dial in the firmness of the swaybar at both ends, for better on road and off road handling and performance. On road handling can be adjusted all the way from an understeer situation to an oversteer situation, and anywhere inbetween. So you can tune your Jeep to handle great ON ROAD, while it still performs great off road. After wheeling a Jeep with dual Anti-rocks on it I am convinced that it is the most balanced, and best handling system available. Be advised though, that if you move the rear shocks outboard of the frame you will also need to move them in front of the axle, which is needed to provide clearance for the Anti-rock. Here's a pic:

As much as other people have recommended a front Anti-rock I would also recommend combining it with a rear Anti-rock. I drive this Jeep as a daily driver, and even with 7" of lift and 37" tires it drives fantastic.
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Unread 10-21-2006, 10:46 PM   #27
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got my currie installed

As I expected, the links it shipped with were way too long. I could not shorten them enough to really have a proper fit, but while I was taking the measurement, it occurred to me that I could probably just use my already installed JKS quick disconnects. I got some fat 1/2 stainless bolts and some 3/4" nylon sleeves to fit the bolts to the JKS bushings and put it all together.

http://img172.imageshack.us/my.php?image=currieid4.jpg

As soon as I had it installed, I was out prowling back streets around the neighborhood to try and find something...anything to drive up on and check the articulation. I finally found a big rock and planted the left front tire on it. The articulation is (not surprisingly) much improved. The increased body roll will take a little getting used to.
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Unread 10-26-2006, 11:54 AM   #28
lupinsea
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Sweet, I like the JKS discos being used simply as an end link for some reason.

I had to get custom machined end links to install the Anti-rock on my stumpy little 2" lift. A machine shop suggest I get a long bolt with a solid shaft and cut threads on the end. Then they machined in the left-hand twist threads and some wrench flats. All good to go but it was a bit pricey at $50.

I've since found the McMaster-Carr catalog has some threaded rod that might be promising. Typi "threaded rod" into the site search box. Then click on the "About Threaded Rods" result that pops up. You should be able to find what you're looking for. And the cost, about $4 instead.
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Unread 10-26-2006, 12:34 PM   #29
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I had high hopes for McMaster, but they only offered the double ended threaded rod in 1/2" x 13. The Currie endlinks are 20 threads per inch.
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Unread 11-21-2006, 12:21 PM   #30
lupinsea
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Dang, that's too bad.

Well, after about 2 years the heim joints on my anit-rock are wearing out and need to be replaced. I may pick up the supplies from McMaster Carr including $4 in the threaded rod and jsut make some new links instead of trying to find "just the right" 20 pitch heim joint.
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