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Unread 04-03-2012, 08:21 PM   #61
ClimbStuff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
No kidding. I was shocked when Blaine Johnson sent his wife Kat back down Sledgehammer and she came back 45 minutes later with a bagged and tagged rebuilt Tommy Lee steering box to match what I had. That is why we call Blaine's collection of spare parts 'The Magic Parts Box' since it always seems to have whatever is needed. We all carry lots of spare parts though, those trails require them. That is fellow JF moderator Joe Dillard giving me a much needed hand and moral support.
You should have played the Mega Millions with Blain with luck like that sheeeeesh

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Unread 04-03-2012, 08:45 PM   #62
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BSEBLFRK09:

I honestly don't know what crawled up your butt, but I don't think any of this:

Quote:
The funny thing is that you started the argument that the Warn only broke after pulling 16.5k lbs. So you are saying that Warn is better because it pulled more before exploding, but I am the stupid one for claiming that I want a winch that doesn't explode if stalled out? What exactly happened to this quote Jerry?

"On some of the silly arguments above from those who claim they want their 9-10k winch to be able to pull 12,000 lbs. without breaking should be aware..."

Why did you edit this?

Quote:
I just take things for what I read. I just hate people who think that they are superior because they have more money and can buy an over priced winch. These type of people will never give credit where it is due because if you don't have the "best" then you aren't worth talking too. I started this thread to give honest feedback about a product that I purchased. Yes it may not be the brand that you recommend because it doesn't have a name. I am trying to give it a name. So why do you have to come in and tell me that what I bought is inferior? In my opinion, if you aren't here to ask questions about the product, or share your experiences with this product, then you shouldn't even be posting here.
Quote:
It is people like you that make this forum obnoxious to even post in. Yes you are full of very useful knowledge, and this is a place to share that knowledge. Yes you think yours is best, but do you have experience with an Engo? Not many people do, and I am trying to alleviate some of the false beliefs that a Warn is your only option if you want a good winch. There are people like me that can't afford $1200 for a winch but still enjoy wheeling. These people need a good reliable winch just as well as you do. They would like info on this product, not someone saying it sucks because it isn't a Warn. So on that note why don't you go post somewhere else where your knowledge and input is actually needed.
Was necessary in the slightest. I've had my battles with Jerry, and Blain at some point, ususally over something stupid, but never once has either of them ever replied to my arguments disrespectfully, or "waved money in my face", or tried to make a superior stance toward me. The real problem here is you. You don't know how to debate, without arguing. Everyone in the Jeep Forum world knows Jerry is all about Warn. Old news. Rather than argue, why not ask questions with intent to perhaps see his point, then just decide to disagree and be done with it. There really is no reason to go all "Yahoo Chat Room" on a distinguished JF member like Jerry. I've read all the same posts, and responded to them as well... and do you see how Jerry and I have a dialog, and you are just left with your internet-wanker hanging in the breeze? I'll now do my best to explain Jerry's point, in as simple terms as I can possible bring myself down to, in hopes that a switch might flip and the lightbulb above your head fires up.

If a winch is rated for 5 tons, and the cable is rated for 5 tons, then you are never going to be able to stall out your winch at 5+ tons because the cable will snap before then. So even if the winch completely explodes at 8 tons, who cares, it will never see that amount of duty.

Lets say your cable could handle 10 tons, and your winch was able to be stalled at 8 tons. You still would never see that load because your jeep would never sit still on the ground. Even if you strapped it to a tree, the likly hood of someone with a cheap winch, having a serious strap (8+ ton WWL), is pretty slim, and your strap would break first. Even if the strap didn't break, the bolts on the bumper would come apart, or the 5-7 ton shackels would give way, or a half dozen other things would give out before that winch ever hit 8 tons.

Lastly, when doing vehicle recovery, you need to use a certain amount of sense. If a 3 ton truck is up to its doors in mud, you don't have enough winch. Remember the reason for doubleing the weight of your vehicle for your winch, is to basically dead pull it through a medium, I.E. Sand, Mud, Snow, up a tree, etc. Anything heavier than your Jeep, is too much for your winch, so don't try to use it. When you try, is when you put yourself and others at risk with cable snaps and such.

If you would please, just ask for someone to elaborate for you if what you're reading doesn't make sense instead of trying to start a pissing contest. Should you choose not to, at least remove your location from your profile so no one will think that everyone in Colorado is a big a ****** as you're making yourself look in this thread.

Thanks for reading my post

P.S. I promise I won't edit it.

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Unread 04-03-2012, 09:00 PM   #63
bseblfrk09
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No, I do understand all of these point, what I don't understand is why he was here in the first place. Yes he is a Warn fan, but he has no reason to be posting in a thread in which he has no experience. He dropped in just to say it's a chinese winch so it sucks. Now look at Warn. This was not a thread in which there should have been any debate at all. I was putting out my knowledge for people to ask questions not for him to talk about how superior Warn is. The thread was titled Engo E10000 winch review not Engo E10000 vs Warn. I do respect Jerry. Very much so in fact. However, he had no reason posting unless he had experience with this winch.
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Unread 04-03-2012, 09:24 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bseblfrk09 View Post
No, I do understand all of these point, what I don't understand is why he was here in the first place. Yes he is a Warn fan, but he has no reason to be posting in a thread in which he has no experience. He dropped in just to say it's a chinese winch so it sucks. Now look at Warn. This was not a thread in which there should have been any debate at all. I was putting out my knowledge for people to ask questions not for him to talk about how superior Warn is. The thread was titled Engo E10000 winch review not Engo E10000 vs Warn. I do respect Jerry. Very much so in fact. However, he had no reason posting unless he had experience with this winch.
Jerry was probably in here the same reason I was... a name I had never seen before and i wanted to see what it was about. Seriously though, you do realize that you turned into a Warn debate right? Let me recap it for you:

You made inital post.
Siva283 said they had a DOA winch, and was expierencing serious customer service problems.
Jerry said, "Incidents like above are why I never recommend any Chinese made winch. "
Siva replied that Warn has parts made in China too.
Jerry replied that the remote is Chinese, the motor was bosch, and any 3 ton+ winch was made in Oregon. He then went on to say, "You are correct that Warn isn't the only manufacturer of quality winches suitable for use on our Jeeps, Ramsey is another U.S. manufacturer of high quality winches and Superwinch's X9 and S9000 winches (none of their other winches though) are U.S. made high quality made winches as well. I'm happy with any of those. I'll pass on ANY Chinese made winch. And not solely for quality reasons. The other reasons include our U.S. economy and keeping American manufacturing healthy..."

A few others chimed in after I did with my logic around my decision, and then agreeing with Jerry on some points.
Then Ross chimed in.
You went back at Ross.
Ross replies.
KevKaos tells story about an M8000 that was DOA.
Ross came back and said screw Warn if they charge premium prices they should deliver.
MayRoll talked about his EPi9.
I replied.
Wushaw replied about his EPi9 as well.

Here is where it starts:

You replied to Ross, "That's funny because the Warn failed after 3 pulls in the shootout... "
Jerry replies on your comment.

For some reason, you got very hung up on the fact that the Warn failed at 168% of it's rating, but the Engo didn't at 133% of its rating. What makes sense to everyone else is... the Warn didnt fail at 6 tons either... but for some reason you didn't think that far into it.

Jerry replies to your comment with, "Pretty funny... the Warn pulled to over 16,000 lbs. before failing and you find fault with that. Not that we could ever get our winches to pull 16,000 lbs. except in a test lab."

You again get very stuck on it letting go at 8 tons.

Jerry then refers to you as a "Spin Doctor".

From here its really just you looking like a fool and not even caring about how ridiculous your argument really is.

I really did take some time to make sure all the important bits got in there, and even bold the names, but really, I don't see anything in Jerry's posts that instigated a Warn vs Everthing argument, or even an argument period. Keep in mind, he also recommended Ramsey winches, as well as some of the Superwinch lineup. It wasn't a Go Warn or Go Home battle like you somehow turned it into.

*EDIT* I'd also like to point out that I have no ties with Jerry outside of JF. I'm not trying to defend him for any personal reason, and frankly, seeing as how he's a grown man, he probably wouldn't need my help even if he needed defending. I've never met the man, and have no idea what he's like as a person. I'm only going off what I see on the screen.
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Unread 04-03-2012, 09:52 PM   #65
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I completely understand that the Warn failed at 16,000lbs and the engo did not pull that much before stalling. my argument is that while it may have pulled more it still failed, whereas the engo was also put to its max (while it did not pull as much as the Warn it was still at its max just like the warn) but it did not fail. So what is more important not pulling as much and living to winch again or pulling more and exploding?

Yes it is very unlikely either of these winches would ever be stalled out in a real world situation, several things would happen before this (i.e. Broken cable).

Jerry did begin this debate by making his comment about chinese winches. Yes they are cheaper, and yes they may have worse customer service, or whatever you want to say about them, but this thread was not for him to interject about Warn. Yes he can have his opinion about Warn, but he doesn't even know Engo. In fact not many people do. I was trying to shed light on this subject. However it is kind of hard to do when people like Jerry turn these threads into debates and automatically assume these new products are inferior because of where they are made or the fact that they don't have a big W on them. I was simply trying to show that while it is new and it doesn't have that W, it proved itself worthy of competing with Warn in the shootout at least initially and at a quarter of the price.

*edit* I do agree with you that of most of the well known people here on JF, Jerry is the best at being very respectful with his replies and I do respect him for that, but he had no room in this thread.
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Unread 04-03-2012, 10:15 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bseblfrk09 View Post
I completely understand that the Warn failed at 16,000lbs and the engo did not pull that much before stalling. my argument is that while it may have pulled more it still failed, whereas the engo was also put to its max (while it did not pull as much as the Warn it was still at its max just like the warn) but it did not fail. So what is more important not pulling as much and living to winch again or pulling more and exploding?

Yes it is very unlikely either of these winches would ever be stalled out in a real world situation, several things would happen before this (i.e. Broken cable).

Jerry did begin this debate by making his comment about chinese winches. Yes they are cheaper, and yes they may have worse customer service, or whatever you want to say about them, but this thread was not for him to interject about Warn. Yes he can have his opinion about Warn, but he doesn't even know Engo. In fact not many people do. I was trying to shed light on this subject. However it is kind of hard to do when people like Jerry turn these threads into debates and automatically assume these new products are inferior because of where they are made or the fact that they don't have a big W on them. I was simply trying to show that while it is new and it doesn't have that W, it proved itself worthy of competing with Warn in the shootout at least initially and at a quarter of the price.

*edit* I do agree with you that of most of the well known people here on JF, Jerry is the best at being very respectful with his replies and I do respect him for that, but he had no room in this thread.
Well, I agree to disagree. I can't logically put an sense to your argument, and you believe everyone is trying to turn this into a ***** fight.

Good luck with your winch.
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Unread 04-04-2012, 11:05 AM   #67
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I just would like to say that I own the Engo 10k winch. I have used it so far 4 times. First preload, 2nd pulling bushes out of the yard , 3 was to pull a friends 1500 ex-cab up onto a flatbed trailer, and the last time was this past Sunday to pull a buried Durango off the beach.

I have yet to have an issue with it other than when I got it the 4 allen bolts on the motor side had backed out and when I tried to take it out of the box it fell apart . Took about an hour to get it back together correctly where it would spool and work with the control. After I had it working properly I called Chris @ Jeepaddons and he was very apologetic of the issue and told me if anything happened to call back and let him know and he would get me whatever repair parts were needed up to and including sending me a new 10k winch. Needless to say everything is great with it.


I like it and now have decided that I am going to switch to synthetic line. I had a bit of a mishap and kinked the steel line Sunday.

Jerry B- Which synthetic line do you recommend for a 10k winch. I would like a thimble on the end as my mishap was an over pull and took part of the hook past the rollers and had to pull the fairlead off to fix. That was when I found that when I had tried to back it out mechanically I had kinked the cable.
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Unread 04-04-2012, 11:51 AM   #68
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I am also debating going synthetic, and I would be interested in hearing some feedback as to who makes the best synthetic rope. I am leaving towards viking any opinions?
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Unread 04-04-2012, 03:21 PM   #69
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I have Viking with the thimble, several pulls with it and very easy to use, I will always have synthetic on my Jeep.
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Unread 04-04-2012, 06:24 PM   #70
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Viking is the way to go. I have yet to hear anything bad about their products. Spydura (I think that's what it's called) is another one worth looking at. I believe Warns S series winches come with it pre spooled.

Note* The line that Smittybuit sells is Dyneema-75, which is still ok, but not nearly as strong as the Viking or Spydura line of the same size. It's not an opinion, it's a fact. Also, I've heard of folks buying the Smittybilt line and it had like a 2.5 ton hook on it... ditch the hook and buy a sturdy one from a big name retailer.
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Unread 04-04-2012, 06:25 PM   #71
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Size-wise, I'd only go for 3/8" synthetic, 5/16" synthetic just doesn't have enough of a safety margin to suit me. 3/8" synthetic would be fine for any winch up to about the 12K capacity. Brand-wise, I'm a big fan of Viking at www.winchline.com due to knowing the two guys who own it (both are Jeepers, one I have wheeled with) and the quality of the two 3/8" Viking winch lines I have owned over the years. Pretty much everyone local I respect is running a Viking 3/8" line.

Just for grins, this Jeep is owned by Jon who is half-owner of Viking. It's an amazing Jeep built for him by Blaine Johnsond, I took the second pic of it while having the pleasure of wheeling with Jon on a trail in Johnson Valley called Sunbonnet.
crawlmagazinejonsjeep.jpg   cimg2615.jpg  
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Unread 04-04-2012, 06:26 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diverdown87 View Post
I just would like to say that I own the Engo 10k winch. I have used it so far 4 times. First preload, 2nd pulling bushes out of the yard , 3 was to pull a friends 1500 ex-cab up onto a flatbed trailer, and the last time was this past Sunday to pull a buried Durango off the beach.

I have yet to have an issue with it other than when I got it the 4 allen bolts on the motor side had backed out and when I tried to take it out of the box it fell apart . Took about an hour to get it back together correctly where it would spool and work with the control. After I had it working properly I called Chris @ Jeepaddons and he was very apologetic of the issue and told me if anything happened to call back and let him know and he would get me whatever repair parts were needed up to and including sending me a new 10k winch. Needless to say everything is great with it.


I like it and now have decided that I am going to switch to synthetic line. I had a bit of a mishap and kinked the steel line Sunday.
Jerry B- Which synthetic line do you recommend for a 10k winch. I would like a thimble on the end as my mishap was an over pull and took part of the hook past the rollers and had to pull the fairlead off to fix. That was when I found that when I had tried to back it out mechanically I had kinked the cable.
I kinked the crap out of mine too the last time I used it. Any future winches I buy will be spooled with synthetic for sure.
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Unread 04-04-2012, 06:30 PM   #73
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I kinked the crap out of mine too the last time I used it. Any future winches I buy will be spooled with synthetic for sure.
I kinked/replaced three wire ropes in about five years, my replacement 3/8" Viking synthetic was still good five years later when that Jeep was stolen two years ago.
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Unread 04-04-2012, 06:46 PM   #74
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Is abrasion really an issue with synthetic? I am in the rocks a lot when I am home for the summer in colorado. I can imagine that when winching I could be wincing across some nasty stuff. Jerry you said you have had yours for awhile have you ran into abrasion issues? I know they make abrasion sleeves, but how often are they actually used?
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Unread 04-04-2012, 06:49 PM   #75
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I kinked/replaced three wire ropes in about five years, my replacement 3/8" Viking synthetic was still good five years later when that Jeep was stolen two years ago.
I think I'm going to sell that HF10k to one of my employees... I was looking at some of the new Warn winches, and I don't understand the differences between all the different models, like the XP, M, XD, TI, CTI, etc. I know the VR's are the new entry level units, and I know about the Endurance, and PowerPlant winches... but all the rest... I don't get what makes one better than the other besides the -S winches have Spydura... Little help Jerry.

*** I didnt know I could click on each series on Warn's site... makes a little more sense.
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