Did I ruin my winch cable? - Page 3 - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > General Technical Discussions > General Jeep & Off-Road Equipment > Did I ruin my winch cable?

Stainless Steel Door Hinge PinsPoly Door Hinge BushingsFS: 2007-2013 Jeep Wrangler "HALO" Angel Eye Kit

Reply
Unread 10-10-2013, 10:09 AM   #31
GrantYJ
Registered User
1992 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Neosho, Missouri
Posts: 840
You could still use the two shorter ones as extension cables. If you put thimbles in you can use clevis/shackles to attach the cables together. I use 100 ft. of synthetic on my winch, but I have about 70 ft. of cable (salvaged from an old winch line) coiled up in the back of the Jeep if I need extra reach.

__________________
“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.” ― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen And The Art Of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values
GrantYJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-10-2013, 10:27 AM   #32
WSS
Ps:91
 
WSS's Avatar
1972 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Chino, Ca
Posts: 2,182
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilson1010 View Post
A 100 foot pull is usually the exception and is never necessary. I doubt I have ever actually run my winch for 100 feet with a load on it.
You gotta get out more.

When double blocked, the pull length is shortened by half, meaning your 100 footer just became 50 foot (or less). You should consider carrying a double block.

Here we get subjective: I have 100' line spooled on my winch and also carry a block. I know my winch can lift two of my Jeeps single line. But I am one of those wierdos who would help someone else who needed assistance on the trail. Since I cannot guess what they are going to weigh or how hard they are stuck, I carry much more gear than would be needed to extract myself.

Of course, helping others is a personal preference, just like welding on winch cables. I know quite a few who will not risk the "legal" problems of helping others, good for you! I could not easily say to someone, "sorry, your on your own".
__________________
www.metaltechus.com

Our Yellow 72 CJ5 build thread

Yellow Jeep club member #73802
WSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-10-2013, 10:34 AM   #33
GrantYJ
Registered User
1992 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Neosho, Missouri
Posts: 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by WSS View Post

You gotta get out more.

When double blocked, the pull length is shortened by half, meaning your 100 footer just became 50 foot (or less). You should consider carrying a double block.

Here we get subjective: I have 100' line spooled on my winch and also carry a block. I know my winch can lift two of my Jeeps single line. But I am one of those wierdos who would help someone else who needed assistance on the trail. Since I cannot guess what they are going to weigh or how hard they are stuck, I carry much more gear than would be needed to extract myself.

Of course, helping others is a personal preference, just like welding on winch cables. I know quite a few who will not risk the "legal" problems of helping others, good for you! I could not easily say to someone, "sorry, your on your own".
It also has a lot to do with where you wheel. If I lived out West, I'd have as much line on my winch as it would hold plus an extension and a pull-pal. I wheel in the Ozarks. There's always something fairly close to hook up to. Even still, I don't leave home without a snatch block and an extension (for the same reason you mentioned).
__________________
“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.” ― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen And The Art Of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values
GrantYJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-10-2013, 11:06 AM   #34
wilson1010
Registered User
1999 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cincinnati Ohio
Posts: 1,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by WSS View Post
You gotta get out more.

When double blocked, the pull length is shortened by half, meaning your 100 footer just became 50 foot (or less). You should consider carrying a double block.

Here we get subjective: I have 100' line spooled on my winch and also carry a block. I know my winch can lift two of my Jeeps single line. But I am one of those wierdos who would help someone else who needed assistance on the trail. Since I cannot guess what they are going to weigh or how hard they are stuck, I carry much more gear than would be needed to extract myself.

Of course, helping others is a personal preference, just like welding on winch cables. I know quite a few who will not risk the "legal" problems of helping others, good for you! I could not easily say to someone, "sorry, your on your own".
Don't insult me. I have recovered a lot of rigs. Other guys rigs. Lots of them. And, of course I carry a snatch block. But, I'm smart enough to also carry a 125' of Amsteel looped at both ends and enough D Shackles and 4" poly straps to hook up to anything. If you have to run your winch 100 feet to get a foot hold to drive out, you should leave your rig in the mall parking lot.
__________________
03 Rubicon; 99 xj with too much stuff to list; Unimog 406
wilson1010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-10-2013, 11:46 AM   #35
WSS
Ps:91
 
WSS's Avatar
1972 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Chino, Ca
Posts: 2,182
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilson1010 View Post
Don't insult me. I have recovered a lot of rigs. Other guys rigs. Lots of them. And, of course I carry a snatch block. But, I'm smart enough to also carry a 125' of Amsteel looped at both ends and enough D Shackles and 4" poly straps to hook up to anything. If you have to run your winch 100 feet to get a foot hold to drive out, you should leave your rig in the mall parking lot.
Sorry if I was insulting. Only the first two sentences were for you, the first was a stab at humor, the second was just advice.

From there it was my opinion of helping others. There are ALOT of people who do not believe in helping others who are stranded here on this forum, I was not in the mood to debate it as it is just a difference in opinion.

Just curious, if a 100' foot pull is never necessary, why carry a extra 125' (hi dollar) synthetic line? I am not trying to be insulting or rude. If there is something to be learned, I certainly want to be open to it.

Thanks!

WSS

edit: When explaining the use of a double block, I was using round numbers, ie;100' becomes 50', not referring to the length of cable spooled on the winch, 100' line on a winch cannot pull 100' I know.
__________________
www.metaltechus.com

Our Yellow 72 CJ5 build thread

Yellow Jeep club member #73802
WSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-10-2013, 11:55 AM   #36
1222
Make mine a Jeep!
 
1222's Avatar
2012 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Henderson, Nevada
Posts: 11,661
^^^
1222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-10-2013, 11:56 AM   #37
biffgnar
Web Wheeler
 
biffgnar's Avatar
2006 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Westchester, NY
Posts: 13,242
Quote:
Originally Posted by WSS View Post
There are ALOT of people who do not believe in helping others who are stranded here on this forum
I don't think you'll find many who wouldn't help somebody else out on the trail. Helping people in onroad situations (e.g. snow in winter) is where you're likely to find a lot more opinions.
__________________
Thank you Dave Cole, Dynomax, Falken and all the Spec Class sponsors!!
biffgnar is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-10-2013, 03:51 PM   #38
wilson1010
Registered User
1999 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cincinnati Ohio
Posts: 1,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by WSS View Post
Sorry if I was insulting. Only the first two sentences were for you, the first was a stab at humor, the second was just advice.

From there it was my opinion of helping others. There are ALOT of people who do not believe in helping others who are stranded here on this forum, I was not in the mood to debate it as it is just a difference in opinion.

Just curious, if a 100' foot pull is never necessary, why carry a extra 125' (hi dollar) synthetic line? I am not trying to be insulting or rude. If there is something to be learned, I certainly want to be open to it.

Thanks!

WSS
Sorry if I overreacted. I have taken a lot of risks and broke a lot of stuff to help guys who did reckless or stupid things and I thought you were saying I didn't care about others. My reading mistake.

In my area, we have some very long hills. And, when a guy is stuck at the bottom of one of them, it is often not possible to get close enough to get a hook on his rig with just 100 feet of winch cable. And, he may only have to move a few feet, and even if I get within 100 feet, who wants to have to spool in the whole winch just to get him over the rocks and on his own.

As for why synthetic, there is a simple reason. A spool of 125 feet of 1/2" steel cable weighs 50 pounds more or less. Cover it with mud, add a steep hill and a guy with a bad back and the money for synthetic is more than worth the money.
__________________
03 Rubicon; 99 xj with too much stuff to list; Unimog 406
wilson1010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-10-2013, 05:47 PM   #39
GrantYJ
Registered User
1992 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Neosho, Missouri
Posts: 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilson1010 View Post
As for why synthetic, there is a simple reason. A spool of 125 feet of 1/2" steel cable weighs 50 pounds more or less. Cover it with mud, add a steep hill and a guy with a bad back and the money for synthetic is more than worth the money.
Amen...
In addition to the bad back, I've also been blessed with the "I'm bulletproof" thought patterns of two teenage sons. The added safety factor alone is worth it. The weight savings and ease of handling is icing on the cake.
__________________
“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.” ― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen And The Art Of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values
GrantYJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-10-2013, 05:53 PM   #40
Awesome
Registered User
1995 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: California
Posts: 1,028
Quote:
Originally Posted by WSS View Post
When double blocked, the pull length is shortened by half, meaning your 100 footer just became 50 foot (or less). You should consider carrying a double block.
Your math is slightly off. When double blocked your length of pull is 1/3 of what your total line length is (and so is your line speed). Your winchs' power is increased by 3x, but that's 3x more strain on your winch cable.

I only carry one snatch block because I know if I needed to use two I would definitely snap my winch line.

As far as helping people... before I got my winch I got stuck all the time trying to help other people get unstuck. Now that I've got my winch, I've only needed to use it on other people once or twice, but I don't get stuck when getting them out.
__________________
”This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!” ~Adolph Hitler, 1935, on The Weapons Act of Nazi Germany
Awesome is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-10-2013, 06:22 PM   #41
wilson1010
Registered User
1999 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cincinnati Ohio
Posts: 1,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by Awesome View Post
Your math is slightly off. When double blocked your length of pull is 1/3 of what your total line length is (and so is your line speed). Your winchs' power is increased by 3x, but that's 3x more strain on your winch cable.

I only carry one snatch block because I know if I needed to use two I would definitely snap my winch line.

.

I don't want to get into an argument about this because I usually get confused, but you might want to re-think this idea that the winch line is strained by use of a snatch block. Assume you attach the snatch block to the stuck rig with a D shackle, run the winch line to the block, through the pulley and back to the recovery vehicle and hooked to the front bumper. Turn on the winch and the cable plays in with a say 9500 pound force like my MM. Now, its certain that the wire spooling onto the winch is only under a 9500 pound strain. Where is it doubled?
__________________
03 Rubicon; 99 xj with too much stuff to list; Unimog 406
wilson1010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-10-2013, 08:09 PM   #42
GrantYJ
Registered User
1992 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Neosho, Missouri
Posts: 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by Awesome View Post

Your math is slightly off. When double blocked your length of pull is 1/3 of what your total line length is (and so is your line speed). Your winchs' power is increased by 3x, but that's 3x more strain on your winch cable.

I only carry one snatch block because I know if I needed to use two I would definitely snap my winch line.

As far as helping people... before I got my winch I got stuck all the time trying to help other people get unstuck. Now that I've got my winch, I've only needed to use it on other people once or twice, but I don't get stuck when getting them out.
I realize he said "double blocked" but I'm pretty sure that he was talking about a single snatch block (i.e. double line, not double blocked).

More importantly, the tension on your cable (or rope) is not increased. The tension on the line is the same that it would be in a single line pull; however, you do have to figure the compound pressures for the attachment points as well as the hardware that attaching them (clevises, snatch blocks, hooks, and etc.).
__________________
“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.” ― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen And The Art Of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values
GrantYJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-10-2013, 08:51 PM   #43
WSS
Ps:91
 
WSS's Avatar
1972 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Chino, Ca
Posts: 2,182
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrantYJ View Post
I realize he said "double blocked" but I'm pretty sure that he was talking about a single snatch block (i.e. double line, not double blocked).
Yes! Thanks for clarifying, sorry to confuse the terms, it's an old riggers term.

For those who like kinetic math, heres a good watch (and why we need more than one "snatch" block):

__________________
www.metaltechus.com

Our Yellow 72 CJ5 build thread

Yellow Jeep club member #73802
WSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-10-2013, 10:05 PM   #44
Awesome
Registered User
1995 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: California
Posts: 1,028
Sorry, I should have specified.

When you can pull 3x more weight with your winch because you are using two pulleys, that doesn't mean your line can take 3x more weight. That's all I meant. You have to be careful when using snatch blocks because you can very easily exceed what your line will pull.
__________________
”This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!” ~Adolph Hitler, 1935, on The Weapons Act of Nazi Germany
Awesome is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-10-2013, 10:23 PM   #45
wilson1010
Registered User
1999 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cincinnati Ohio
Posts: 1,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by Awesome View Post
Sorry, I should have specified.

When you can pull 3x more weight with your winch because you are using two pulleys, that doesn't mean your line can take 3x more weight. That's all I meant. You have to be careful when using snatch blocks because you can very easily exceed what your line will pull.
Again, not to create conflict, but I don't think the force on the winch line is ever increased by the use of snatch blocks. One or two. The force between the snatch block and the stuck rig will increase, but that will be hardware miles beyond the capacity of the winch line.

What is at risk are the attachment points.
__________________
03 Rubicon; 99 xj with too much stuff to list; Unimog 406
wilson1010 is offline   Reply With Quote




Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.