[laybackman]

I have a Husky Pro 3.2HP 60 gallon compressor. I want to add a water separator on it but do not want to spend too much money. I will be using a HF 20CFM 20 oz gravity feed gun to attempt to paint my YJ sometime in the future.
I need to add a water separator. Would this be good enough for a one time use?

ebay # 360455189462 seller is optiononeparts

What about the filter portion on one of these? Do they one and does it have to be replaced? Where do you get them? Or do you simply drain the filter?
My current air hose has to be dirty and I would use a new hose to shoot any paint.

EDIT! What is this coalescing filter I have read about? woulfd that do the trick all by itself?

[JonnieBlaze]

I dont know too much about this stuff yet, but I just bought a compressor to do a paint job as well so I've been reading up.

The ebay item you're asking about is a simple water trap. The way is channels the air through it, if there is any water vapor that has condensed to water, it will 'hopefully' be trapped in the canister. The problem is if the vapor hasn't cooled down enough to condense, the water trap won't help. I think I have three water traps in a row on my setup.

I can't comment on the filter part of the ebay item because I'm not sure where you get replacements.

The coalescing filter is some sort of chemical filter that literally drys the air. I think those are pretty good and effective, but costly and will eventually require the coalescing material to be replaced in the filter.

I also have a MotoGuard M60 water filter/dryer at the end of my hose, followed by about 15 or 20 feet of hose going to the gun. I can mount the m60 filter someplace close to where I'm painting, and still move around pretty good because of the 15 ft line going to the gun from the filter (in theroy..haven't tried it yet). You mount it like this so that hopefully the air has some time to cool in the long hose going from the compressor, through your water traps, to this M60 filter. That filter uses something that looks like a roll of toilet paper to dry the air. They are pretty simple to replace when needed.

Something else you should use are the little disposable dryers you put right on the handle of the spray gun.

To really dry the air, you need to run some metal pipes right out of the compressor for 40 feet or so, with some water traps positioned that will catch the condensed water. I don't have enough space for this so unfortunately can't go that route.

I've seen where some people buy a coil of copper tubing, put it in a bucket of ice water, and run their air out of the compressor, into the copper coil, then into their water traps to catch the now-cooled water.

I've also seen at least one person plumb up a automotive air conditioner condenser on the Out part of the air compressor, but before the air actually goes into the tank. Those condensers are rated for 350 psi i think, so it can withstand the pressure from the compressor. This basically cools the air before it goes into the tank, so the water will just collect in the tank and you can drain it from there. No need to run metal pipes all over your walls. I'd like to do this if I ever get time.

[laybackman]

Originally Posted by JonnieBlaze

I dont know too much about this stuff yet, but I just bought a compressor to do a paint job as well so I've been reading up.

The ebay item you're asking about is a simple water trap. The way is channels the air through it, if there is any water vapor that has condensed to water, it will 'hopefully' be trapped in the canister. The problem is if the vapor hasn't cooled down enough to condense, the water trap won't help. I think I have three water traps in a row on my setup.

I can't comment on the filter part of the ebay item because I'm not sure where you get replacements.

The coalescing filter is some sort of chemical filter that literally drys the air. I think those are pretty good and effective, but costly and will eventually require the coalescing material to be replaced in the filter.

I also have a MotoGuard M60 water filter/dryer at the end of my hose, followed by about 15 or 20 feet of hose going to the gun. I can mount the m60 filter someplace close to where I'm painting, and still move around pretty good because of the 15 ft line going to the gun from the filter (in theroy..haven't tried it yet). You mount it like this so that hopefully the air has some time to cool in the long hose going from the compressor, through your water traps, to this M60 filter. That filter uses something that looks like a roll of toilet paper to dry the air. They are pretty simple to replace when needed.

Something else you should use are the little disposable dryers you put right on the handle of the spray gun.

To really dry the air, you need to run some metal pipes right out of the compressor for 40 feet or so, with some water traps positioned that will catch the condensed water. I don't have enough space for this so unfortunately can't go that route.

I've seen where some people buy a coil of copper tubing, put it in a bucket of ice water, and run their air out of the compressor, into the copper coil, then into their water traps to catch the now-cooled water.

I've also seen at least one person plumb up a automotive air conditioner condenser on the Out part of the air compressor, but before the air actually goes into the tank. Those condensers are rated for 350 psi i think, so it can withstand the pressure from the compressor. This basically cools the air before it goes into the tank, so the water will just collect in the tank and you can drain it from there. No need to run metal pipes all over your walls. I'd like to do this if I ever get time.

SO basically those small inline 'water separators' are nothing more than a condenser of sorts.

If the air from the compressor is still hot/warm then any moisture is held in suspension and those type of water separators won't be very effective would they?

One could make a 'cool can' that the beginning part of their air line or coil of tubing runs through also.

Isn't that Motor Guard M60 air filter a coalescing air filter? It seems to have a replaceble (paper?) element.

I'm still debating about doing this myself or doing a rool on job but if I do I want the equipment to be adequate.....even if the painter may not be...

[JonnieBlaze]

To me, a 'condenser' actually helps condense the water vapor to just water. Those water seperators just collect already condensed water, they don't help the condensing process. You are correct that they won't be very effective if the air is still hot and the vapor has not condensed. But they will help a little. I have a couple inline directly off the tank and they do get some water in them.

Maybe I dont fully understand the meaning of 'coalescing'. I thought coalescing filters had some kind of chemical material that would chemically cool the air and suck moisture out. The motoguard M60 just a paper filter to physically dry the air.

If you have the room, run some metal pipes back and forth across the wall a couple times before you get to your water separators. Angle them on the wall so the water can run down the pipe, and at each turning point put a down pipe that the water will run into and collect. Just make sure to put a valve on each of those down pipes so you can empty the water. All of that is probably just more work than cost...so might be cheaper than getting some expensive drying unit.

But like I said...I don't have much experience...just going off what I've read. Wish someone else would chime in here.

[CJ7-Tim]

eBay one at the compressor and second one at the spray gun. Unless you paint for a living, they will be sufficient. The compressor filter will last the life of the compressor, simply drain the bowl at the end of the day.

[laybackman]

Originally Posted by JonnieBlaze

To me, a 'condenser' actually helps condense the water vapor to just water. Those water seperators just collect already condensed water, they don't help the condensing process. You are correct that they won't be very effective if the air is still hot and the vapor has not condensed. But they will help a little. I have a couple inline directly off the tank and they do get some water in them.

Maybe I dont fully understand the meaning of 'coalescing'. I thought coalescing filters had some kind of chemical material that would chemically cool the air and suck moisture out. The motoguard M60 just a paper filter to physically dry the air.

If you have the room, run some metal pipes back and forth across the wall a couple times before you get to your water separators. Angle them on the wall so the water can run down the pipe, and at each turning point put a down pipe that the water will run into and collect. Just make sure to put a valve on each of those down pipes so you can empty the water. All of that is probably just more work than cost...so might be cheaper than getting some expensive drying unit.

But like I said...I don't have much experience...just going off what I've read. Wish someone else would chime in here.

That makes sense those little buggers allow condensed water to collect in them. Everthing else makes it much clearer. Once I understand what needs to be accomplished it makes it much easier to understand what equipment works best. Thanks

Originally Posted by CJ7-Tim

eBay one at the compressor and second one at the spray gun. Unless you paint for a living, they will be sufficient. The compressor filter will last the life of the compressor, simply drain the bowl at the end of the day.

This seems like the fast and easy way to go for what may possibly be a one time deal. I would also get a new 50' hose since mine must be contaminated with water and oil.

I'm thinking I want some decent paint on my YJ but I am not talking about some fancy schmancy show quality paint job..... More like what I would call a 20' paint job. You know what I mean. The kind of paint job that looks good if you stand at least 20' away from the YJ.....

[Ironworker709]

I know it sounds "redneckish"..but it did work in a Pinch....

I was painting a truck for a freind at his place,he supposedly had everything setup for me to come and just paint it...we were having water in the line issues because it was the middle of summer here and the humidity was killer and he lives way out in the country,about an hour to the nearest place to buy any compressor or auto body materials............

for a "temporary" and efficent way to remove moisture from the lines.....

We used a 25 foot hose right off the compressor,..wrapped it around 2 garden tomato wire cages wired together, one on top of the other and wrapped the hose from top to bottom so the female end was at the bottom side...about an inch or more space between each wrap,....we then put the whole assembly inside a tall old plastic trash can with a hole cut in the bottom side so the hose can come through that out the bottom......then put a water seperator at the end of that hose outside the trash can making sure the water seperator was lower than the trash can and everything else..........then we put 2 bags of unopened ice inside the tomato cage the hose is wrapped around..this cooled the hose/air tremendously and the water seperator at the bottom caught most if not all the Moisture water draining out of the hose.....also make sure you the hose upwards exiting the water seperator and run back down and use another cheap water seperator at the bottom of that to catch anymore in the line.
I know,,again..it's "Redneckish"..but it worked better than we imagined it would and we was trying to avoid wasting 3 or more hours driving to and back to anywhere to get parts/equipment...
I would'nt suggest this as an ongoing remedy,but if you are just painting one vehicle and not wanting to invest huge sums of money into a system..it will "help" in a pinch...

OK..lets hear the"i've seen it all now!"....lol

Those little disposable spray gun filters are only designed to catch particles..not moisture..they may catch a lil moisture but its main purpose is to trap dirt or contaminates in the line before it gets to the gun and clogs up passage ways in it

[laybackman]

Originally Posted by Ironworker709

I know it sounds "redneckish"..but it did work in a Pinch....

I was painting a truck for a freind at his place,he supposedly had everything setup for me to come and just paint it...we were having water in the line issues because it was the middle of summer here and the humidity was killer and he lives way out in the country,about an hour to the nearest place to buy any compressor or auto body materials............

for a "temporary" and efficent way to remove moisture from the lines.....

We used a 25 foot hose right off the compressor,..wrapped it around 2 garden tomato wire cages wired together, one on top of the other and wrapped the hose from top to bottom so the female end was at the bottom side...about an inch or more space between each wrap,....we then put the whole assembly inside a tall old plastic trash can with a hole cut in the bottom side so the hose can come through that out the bottom......then put a water seperator at the end of that hose outside the trash can making sure the water seperator was lower than the trash can and everything else..........then we put 2 bags of unopened ice inside the tomato cage the hose is wrapped around..this cooled the hose/air tremendously and the water seperator at the bottom caught most if not all the Moisture water draining out of the hose.....also make sure you the hose upwards exiting the water seperator and run back down and use another cheap water seperator at the bottom of that to catch anymore in the line.
I know,,again..it's "Redneckish"..but it worked better than we imagined it would and we was trying to avoid wasting 3 or more hours driving to and back to anywhere to get parts/equipment...
I would'nt suggest this as an ongoing remedy,but if you are just painting one vehicle and not wanting to invest huge sums of money into a system..it will "help" in a pinch...

OK..lets hear the"i've seen it all now!"....lol

Those little disposable spray gun filters are only designed to catch particles..not moisture..they may catch a lil moisture but its main purpose is to trap dirt or contaminates in the line before it gets to the gun and clogs up passage ways in it

That is not redneckish...that is field expediency! What you built was a 'cool can'. You could use a dorm fridge to do the same thing if you painted often and lived where it got real hot.

I get the feeling that you need to be a chemist an engineer and meticulous to successfully paint a vehicle. I think most great autobody/paint guys expend all of their energy on any rig they are working on.

Is that why most of them are always grubby and drive a rusty POS!?

[Ironworker709]

A few more points i thought of........

After you are all setup..drain the compressor tank completely after sitting full of max pressure all night to rid any moisture/oil as much as possible while it is cool and all the vapors have settled.......then run it to max again,let it cool again for an hour or more,open the drain once again for a short time JUST long enough to to get whats left out and again let fill and cool off.

While the tank if full pressure and has been drained well and cooled of completely..it's time to spray.......the less times a compressor cycles if at all,the less moisture/vapors is introduced to the tank.

You will also need at a minimum some kind of "filter" to block any oil contamination in the line while spraying...we all know compressors introduce oil into the tank from the compressor.........and oil is even worse than water in destroying a paint job..........

Don't buy those cheap pressure regulators that purposely leaks air to a certain pressure/CFM....buy one that adjust the flow of air,they are a lil more costly but well worth it because it doesn't make your compressor cycle often causing more moisture in the tank from the pump running so much,and they are also better to have in the long run keeping wear n tear down on your compressor.

I've used those HF HVLP's on a few riding mowers and trailers..not bad at all for a cheap gun for a few times..but they like to run pretty high PSI's like around 35-40 and even higher to get a good spray pattern and atomization.....just keep your line pressure about 90 PSI and get one of those little regulators for it at the gun connection and regulate THAT to the best PSI the gun seems to run at...you don't want to "shorten" yourself in the middle of spraying when the compressor loses a lil PSI in the tank...you need a constent even pressure at the gun throughout the spraying process to acheive the best and most even results.

Here is a GREAT read on how to setup a gun to the best of it's abilities.............Adjusting Your Gun

And from the same guy..Barry who owns and runs SPI(Southern Polyurethanes Inc) on some tips of what NOT to do with auto painting....What every new painter must read!

This guy is a GREAT guy and awesome..i've met him personaly and used his products a few times so far,well known in the auto industry and he has helped others and myself on the phone with any questions/problems i have...

I know you said you just wanted a "20 foot paint job"..i've been that way too,but after taking the time to do the actual work and money to do one,it's real dissapointing to see someone else in my same position and money spent do a show quality job over my 1/2 arse job...so i learned to take my time and do it right and learn the right ways and its cheaper and more satisfaction in the end results and long run

[laybackman]

Originally Posted by Ironworker709

A few more points i thought of........

After you are all setup..drain the compressor tank completely after sitting full of max pressure all night to rid any moisture/oil as much as possible while it is cool and all the vapors have settled.......then run it to max again,let it cool again for an hour or more,open the drain once again for a short time JUST long enough to to get whats left out and again let fill and cool off.

While the tank if full pressure and has been drained well and cooled of completely..it's time to spray.......the less times a compressor cycles if at all,the less moisture/vapors is introduced to the tank.

You will also need at a minimum some kind of "filter" to block any oil contamination in the line while spraying...we all know compressors introduce oil into the tank from the compressor.........and oil is even worse than water in destroying a paint job..........

Don't buy those cheap pressure regulators that purposely leaks air to a certain pressure/CFM....buy one that adjust the flow of air,they are a lil more costly but well worth it because it doesn't make your compressor cycle often causing more moisture in the tank from the pump running so much,and they are also better to have in the long run keeping wear n tear down on your compressor.

I've used those HF HVLP's on a few riding mowers and trailers..not bad at all for a cheap gun for a few times..but they like to run pretty high PSI's like around 35-40 and even higher to get a good spray pattern and atomization.....just keep your line pressure about 90 PSI and get one of those little regulators for it at the gun connection and regulate THAT to the best PSI the gun seems to run at...you don't want to "shorten" yourself in the middle of spraying when the compressor loses a lil PSI in the tank...you need a constent even pressure at the gun throughout the spraying process to acheive the best and most even results.

Here is a GREAT read on how to setup a gun to the best of it's abilities.............Adjusting Your Gun

And from the same guy..Barry who owns and runs SPI(Southern Polyurethanes Inc) on some tips of what NOT to do with auto painting....What every new painter must read!

This guy is a GREAT guy and awesome..i've met him personaly and used his products a few times so far,well known in the auto industry and he has helped others and myself on the phone with any questions/problems i have...

I know you said you just wanted a "20 foot paint job"..i've been that way too,but after taking the time to do the actual work and money to do one,it's real dissapointing to see someone else in my same position and money spent do a show quality job over my 1/2 arse job...so i learned to take my time and do it right and learn the right ways and its cheaper and more satisfaction in the end results and long run

Thanks for all the information! Prep is the key isn’t it always so? You are right about the 20’ paint job. If I end up with a paint job like that because of my ability…or complete lack thereof as a spray painter I could live with that.

I asked about setting up the compressor right because I am aware that not doing so can make even the best painter in the world end up with a crappy job after all the great prep work. If I prep right and have the right equipment then it is just my ability to paint that comes into play here.

My thoughts are I will get several large appliance boxes and cut out the large flat panels. I will practice first on those panels and then when figure out the gun settings (thank God for you tube!) Once I can say ‘that looks good’ then it is time to hit the YJ with some paint!

[Ironworker709]

All it takes is the WANT..then research and research..leanr and learn..practice and practice....you'll know when your ready,you'll do better job than you think if you just take your time...take it from someone who learned the hard way....lol

[laybackman]

Some years ago I was told by someone much older and wiser than I am that I should learn as much as I can from other people's experiences because I will never live long enough to learn it by mine... This man also told me that it isn't not how much money you make that is important...it is how much you spend... He was a wise man...

Thanks again and I hope that other members will continue to chime in with their experiences so we can all learn more!

[laybackman]

OK, I have a bunch of reading to do but I have yet another question regarding equipment.

Air hose: I am currently running a 3/8" rubber hose that I would guess is fairly contaminated with moisture. What about compressor oil? does a any get in the tank?.

So I'm thinking of buying additional new hose to feed my gun IF I do paint my YJ.

OR
Could I use my current 3/8" rubber hose as it is first off of the compressor then add the water separator at the end of it. Then add a second 50' section of 3/8" rubber hose to feed the gun?

Could I reduce the second hose size to 1/4" x 50' to feed the gun? I have one that is why I ask. Or does it have to be 3/8" up to the gun?

I would use a small particle filter at the gun which is 1/4" NPT in any event.

I think the HF #66222 purple gun(s) I bought needs 6CFM @ a max 45PSI.

[Ironworker709]

First...for proof if your getting oil in the tank,drain your compressor with the bottom petcock..while it's draining put a few fingers over it where it's releasing pressure....then rub your fingers together and see how slippery they are from the oil..lol...

I know there's better pumps on higher end compressors that have really dry pumps..but you have the Husky and it's probably about like the Ingersol Rand 60 Gallon i have from Tractor Supply and mine does have iol in the tank..and even at times when i am trying to see how moisture is coming out of my lines before painting something simple like a trailer or such..i can feel the oily substance on my hands when checking the lines......

Thats why i have a few 3/8" goodyear rubber hoses dedicated for painting vehicles only.

3/8" hoses will be fine..it's the 1/4" hose at any point that can hinder the CFM flow,when the tank gets a little low before it kicks on it could hinder your constant even flow through the gun....this is what i was told by local freind in Augusta who does custom work anyhow....lol..but it makes sense to me...
He "enlightened" me also about the common 1/4" connections most people buy and don't think abut it...if you use a 1/4" connection its kind of a moot point using a 3/8" hose.

I have a few hoses and connections all dedicated to painting only....other cheapo hoses for airing up tires and using pnuematic tools....speekin of which..this just reminded me a need a new air ratchet..my 10 year craftsmen took a dump before xmas...

[laybackman]

Originally Posted by Ironworker709

First...for proof if your getting oil in the tank,drain your compressor with the bottom petcock..while it's draining put a few fingers over it where it's releasing pressure....then rub your fingers together and see how slippery they are from the oil..lol...

I know there's better pumps on higher end compressors that have really dry pumps..but you have the Husky and it's probably about like the Ingersol Rand 60 Gallon i have from Tractor Supply and mine does have iol in the tank..and even at times when i am trying to see how moisture is coming out of my lines before painting something simple like a trailer or such..i can feel the oily substance on my hands when checking the lines......

Thats why i have a few 3/8" goodyear rubber hoses dedicated for painting vehicles only.

3/8" hoses will be fine..it's the 1/4" hose at any point that can hinder the CFM flow,when the tank gets a little low before it kicks on it could hinder your constant even flow through the gun....this is what i was told by local freind in Augusta who does custom work anyhow....lol..but it makes sense to me...
He "enlightened" me also about the common 1/4" connections most people buy and don't think abut it...if you use a 1/4" connection its kind of a moot point using a 3/8" hose.

I have a few hoses and connections all dedicated to painting only....other cheapo hoses for airing up tires and using pnuematic tools....speekin of which..this just reminded me a need a new air ratchet..my 10 year craftsmen took a dump before xmas...

When I set this compressor up I made a 'pedestal' that is made up of two sheets of 1/2" x 30" or so plywood with hockey pucks sandwiched in between. The compresssor is bolted onto that. I cut a slot so I could get at the drain easier.
There is no doubt in my mind that my compressor has contaminated my hose with a oil/water emulsion. I have noted that 'slick feel' of the moisture when I have drained it.

OK. Two new 3/8" rubber hoses. How about a 50' whip off of the compressor to the water separator then a 50' 3/8" rubber hose to the gun. Add a partivcle filter on the end of the gun does cut the intake to 1/4" but the 3/8 hose does carry more capacity.

What about hose material? There is rubber, pvc, and pliovic. Which omne is best for this application. My thought is PVC is not porous. Rubber is and what ta hell is pliovic??

Or, simply put what do you 'pros' prefer?